I saw this fish...

[naiad]

I didn't know they did that! I heard of someone who kept a Panaque (large pleco) in a display tank in an aquarium shop. It killed a piranha and a red-tailed catfish (large predator). It now lives in a tank on its own. This is not as surprising as it sounds - the panaque eats wood and plant material, so it has powerful spoon-shaped teeth, and it also has cheek spines. The three species live together in the wild, so the pleco probably recognised its natural enemies, and decided to get them out of its territory.

Keeping a collection of fish is always much, much harder than what it says in the books. They will chase each other, eat each other, damage plants, compete for food and grow enormous. Of course, they would do all that in the wild, but it isn't so convenient in a tank or pond.

 

[Fondueset]

I'm sure I posted this earlier - but on a similar note - I kept a plec, blue koi, arawana and an oscar together for ages. They all ate koi pellets.

 

[naiad]

That is an interesting collection, it is always good when it does work out! Unusual combinations sometimes do work - the temperature ranges of some coldwater and tropical species do overlap, so large plecos and koi can sometimes be kept together.

My two goldfish get on well together - the small one follows the large one around and hides under her. rofl

Some pictures of the two goldfish. The large one has grown and now looks like an orange whale. The brown fish is the same one as in this post. It changes colour depending on its surroundings.

 

[scottie3030]

the small 'goldfish' looks like a common carp! once caught a 24lb common, not the biggests fish out there but still well worth being woke up at 6am in the morning for!

 

[joe123321]

That is an interesting collection, it is always good when it does work out! Unusual combinations sometimes do work - the temperature ranges of some coldwater and tropical species do overlap, so large plecos and koi can sometimes be kept together.

My two goldfish get on well together - the small one follows the large one around and hides under her. rofl

Some pictures of the two goldfish. The large one has grown and now looks like an orange whale. The brown fish is the same one as in this post. It changes colour depending on its surroundings.

haha, your right, exspecialy in the second pic, looks like the tail is like a whales, cool fish.

 

[naiad]

the small 'goldfish' looks like a common carp!

I am not sure it is a goldfish myself - it has two short barbels at the corners of its mouth (a carp would have four), they are much smaller than those of a carp and more like those of a tench. A goldfish is never supposed to have barbels of any kind. It is definitely not a carp, as its fins are too long and shaped like those of a goldfish. It could be a carp/goldfish or goldfish/crucian carp hybrid - these species can interbreed when they live together. Certainly at least one of its parents is a fancy goldfish. I will know in a few years time, when I have a 30lb 'goldfish' in need of a bigger home!

 

[naiad]

Catch of the day

I was doing pond clearing in a community garden today and yesterday, and I caught this portly pair. Catching a goldfish with a hand net in a weed-filled and not too small pond is not an easy task, so I am rather pleased with myself.

I will keep them separate from my other goldfish until I am sure they are healthy. I am not sure why the one on the left is so fat, I will have to wait and see if it is OK. Apart from that they look in reasonable condition.

 

[BatRay]

They're really beautiful. Did you happen to have carried a couple of fish home in a bucket sometime back, and wrote it up here on DB?

 

[naiad]

Yes, that was me...
http://forums.deeperblue.net/beach-bar/63524-fitness-training.html
The fish was the big orange one in the pictures above.

The black fish is a hybrid, almost certainly a Black Moor Goldfish x Common Carp. To identify it certainly I would have to count the scales along the lateral line, the rays of the dorsal fin and the number and type of teeth (they do have them, but far back in the mouth, and impossible to see in a small fish). That is why it is hard to tell apart the carp, goldfish, crucian carp and their hybrids! rofl

 

[BatRay]

Great post. It makes me smile. Your big orange goldfish looks like it says "Blub, blub" audibly.

Went freediving in the river yesterday and saw some nice, big carp. I'm gonna check the Fish & Game code to see when the freshwater spearfishing season starts. Not sure how it will be to go after them, but they are invasive and very harmful to the native fishes.

 

[naiad]

I think goldfish are one of the cutest fish. They often have very funny faces.

Here in the UK, carp are an introduced species, but they have been around for centuries and are no threat to the native wildlife. They are stocked in lakes for fishing, and also breed naturally. The same goes for the crucian carp and goldfish. This may be because they are not that different from the native species (tench, bream, roach, rudd), so they fit in the ecosystem. It is good that they are not a problem, because these three species are extremely hardy and can live in very difficult conditions, so they are here to stay. The hybrids are even stronger than their parents, but they are sterile.

My two new goldfish are still separate from the others - one has a few scales missing, and the other is still fat, so it now has some salt in its water to treat it. I am hoping they will be better soon.

 

[wet]

Does adding some salt cause less eating or change in metabolism?

 

[naiad]

The reason for adding salt is...
A freshwater fish contains more salt than its surroundings, so it is constantly absorbing water by osmosis. Its skin is protected by scales (or thick, like the leather carp and some catfish), and it does not deliberately drink water, but it absorbs a lot through its gills, and some is taken in with food. Because of this, its kidneys are working hard to remove this excess water, and it is constantly producing large quantities of very dilute urine. Apparently a goldfish (I don't know of what size) produces enough urine in a day to fill a Coke can.

If this process goes wrong (kidney disease, infection, low temperature or some other stress), the excess water accumulates and causes the fish to swell up, often with the scales sticking out like a pine cone. Although this is a serious condition, it can sometimes be treated by adding some salt to the water, reducing osmosis and so reducing the amount of water the fish has to excrete. I once had a fish that had reached the 'pine cone' stage which was successfully treated with salt. Increasing the temperature will also help because it increases the metabolic rate, allowing its kidneys to function more efficiently.

Freshwater species have variable tolerance to salt, but most will tolerate at least a small amount.

Marine fish have the opposite problem - they have a lower salt concentration than their surroundings, so they have to drink water constantly to avoid dehydration. The salt is excreted through the gills. Unfortunately most of them are very intolerant of changing the salinity, so reducing the amount of salt in the water is not often used as a treatment. A freshwater bath can be used to treat skin parasites on marine fish - the fish will only tolerate about 2 minutes, but in this time the parasites will burst because of osmosis.

Very few species can travel between fresh and salt water every day - the flounder is one of them.

 

[naiad]

My goldfish have been giving me loads of trouble! First I looked at the ones outside, only to find that the 'orange whale' one had bubbles in its fins. This is the fish equivalent of the bends, and is caused by a high pressure of O2 in the water, produced by algae and plants. These have been growing out of control recently. After an emergency water change, the fish is OK.

Then the other pair needed a water change, and they like to be together, so they are both indoors. I discovered why it is not a good idea to use a garden hose indoors. It was aimed into the fish tub until I turned the tap on... :duh rofl

Who says goldfish are easy pets...

 

[naiad]

Another pair of rescued goldfish - someone didn't want them any more and they were going to be put down if I didn't take them, so they came home. I kept one of them in a plastic bin for a couple of days, as there was nowhere else to put it.
I carried them in separate bags to the station, along with my suitcase. Between that and my river adventure, my arms are still hurting.

They are fancy goldfish and good examples of their breeds. I hope they are healthy and grow big, as they are impressive fish.

 

[wet]

Another pair of rescued goldfish - someone didn't want them any more and they were going to be put down if I didn't take them, so they came home. I kept one of them in a plastic bin for a couple of days, as there was nowhere else to put it.
I carried them in separate bags to the station, along with my suitcase. Between that and my river adventure, my arms are still hurting.

They are fancy goldfish and good examples of their breeds. I hope they are healthy and grow big, as they are impressive fish.

They are very nice looking goldfish. I didn't see your last couple of messages, been busy with other stuff. What you said about the salt and water management in fish is very intriguing. I can't think of any parallels in mammals or reptiles, but some amphibians (couple of frogs and toads) have adaptations for both salt & freshwater habitats. What river adventure? Did you go crayfishing?

 

[naiad]

What you said about the salt and water management in fish is very intriguing. I can't think of any parallels in mammals or reptiles, but some amphibians (couple of frogs and toads) have adaptations for both salt & freshwater habitats.

Mammals, birds and reptiles have waterproof skin and do not breathe with gills, so salt and water loss/gain are not such a problem for them, but those that drink seawater (seabirds, marine mammals, marine iguanas) have ways of excreting excess salt, through glands in the eyes or nose.

What river adventure? Did you go crayfishing?

This one...
http://forums.deeperblue.net/freediving-stories/71640-my-first-open-water-freedive-well-sort.html

 

[wet]

Mammals, birds and reptiles have waterproof skin and do not breathe with gills, so salt and water loss/gain are not such a problem for them, but those that drink seawater (seabirds, marine mammals, marine iguanas) have ways of excreting excess salt, through glands in the eyes or nose.
This one...
http://forums.deeperblue.net/freediving-stories/71640-my-first-open-water-freedive-well-sort.html

hmm, you did have some kind of diving buddy close by I hope... even shallow water can be hazardous. Right? No matter how silly it sounds, have a diving buddy watching always, ok? Even somebody who can't swim is better than nobody, at least they can scream for help.

Beyond that, glad you got into the water, very nice to swim with trout.

 

[naiad]

There were some people with me on the bank (not freedivers), so I was being supervised. There wasn't anyone diving with me though. I have tried to find a buddy for local diving, but it has proved to be impossible so far.

I was only doing a few seconds apnea at a time. I did also check for hazards in the environment, and decided it was reasonably safe (bottom clearly visible, so no hidden dangerous objects or sudden changes of depth).

I would go again with a buddy, but I don't think swimming is allowed there. It is a trout fishing area and it apparently scares the trout, though I don't see how this is a problem if there isn't anyone fishing at the time. They have the whole river to get out of the way, and anyway some came quite close. I was careful not to stir up the gravel too much, and avoided the clumps of plants.

Certainly some interesting fish, brown trout and bullheads. Also some impressive plants, big colourful clumps like a planted aquarium! There was a plant which formed big soft cushions, and another which was a fern.

 

[wet]

There were some people with me on the bank (not freedivers), so I was being supervised. There wasn't anyone diving with me though. I have tried to find a buddy for local diving, but it has proved to be impossible so far.

I was only doing a few seconds apnea at a time. I did also check for hazards in the environment, and decided it was reasonably safe (bottom clearly visible, so no hidden dangerous objects or sudden changes of depth).

I would go again with a buddy, but I don't think swimming is allowed there. It is a trout fishing area and it apparently scares the trout, though I don't see how this is a problem if there isn't anyone fishing at the time. They have the whole river to get out of the way, and anyway some came quite close. I was careful not to stir up the gravel too much, and avoided the clumps of plants.

Certainly some interesting fish, brown trout and bullheads. Also some impressive plants, big colourful clumps like a planted aquarium! There was a plant which formed big soft cushions, and another which was a fern.

Yeah, I was thinking of hazards: say a brook with a little pool with a tree and tangled roots where some trout would sit, the exact place where the fishermen would cast their invisible monofilament fishing line into, that would cumulatively snag on the roots making a sort of invisible strong net which the current and fish could pass through quickly but a diver couldn't...add a lone curious and temporarily uncautious diver unfamiliar with the unseen current... well, spooky risks. That goes for carp diving in warm ponds too. There's lots of neat stuff but there's nasty stuff too, some of it unseen, unexpected or unknown.

abc = ^a^l^w^a^y^s^ ^b^e^ ^ c^a^r^e^f^u^l^
:head :naughty

at least until you grow gills, then you just have to watch out for the bigger fish!