I was rubbish in DNF, made a neck weight and I'm still rubbish

[dimitris33]

Best way to safely progress in pool disciplines is to become friend with serious apneists (not spearfishers), train with them, learn from them, spotted by them and listen to them.

If this is not possible then I suggest to train very carefully. Also, try to read as much as u can (books, threads, etc). It will help u a lot. The deeperblue database is a TREASURE.

 

[ShallowGuy]

dimitris33, I actually read a lot.

I have found a very interesting article by Natalia Molchanova with great tips for training. Most of the training (at least for beginners) can be performed on surface, with just minimum time spent underwater. I guess I may implement it - it much safer than what I was doing before.I actually made my first training plan - looking forward to start.

Do you by any chance know any effective dry training methods which can improve by dynamics? I do apnea walking from time to time but it seems not too effective after a while. It was OK few months ago so I could learn dealing with contractions and a bit about lactic acid but I think it's not that beneficial after I've made a little progress. I do some apnea stair walking but I don't know if it makes sense (safety is a bit of concern as well).

I try to run once a week with some breath hold pyramid but like with apnea walking I'm not sure about its effectiveness.

And just out of interest - why shouldn't I train with spearfisher? I thought they are part of freediving family.

 

[dimitris33]

Spearfishers are part of freediving family but it is unlikely that you will find a spearfisher who is training (methods, tips, etc) like a pure apneist. Better find pure apneists (at your local AIDA for instance or any pure apnea club).

Regarding training only thing I can say that you look bit inpatient and u ask for speed results by training with various methods. Relax and do not overtrain. Results will come in time with dedication and patience.

 

[anthropisces]

Shallowguy - I get contractions at about 55m. Lactic from ~125m, though it only starts to reduce power around 175-200m. Lactic you can train, contractions you can't really.

If you get contractions at 55m, what happens after that? You are saying that you can't train contractions.

I start getting contractions at about that same time (55m). My lungs start to sort of burn after that. At about 85m that burning becomes unbearable and I surface.

I have felt a bit jerky coming up at such times. I suppose that is considered a samba.

 

[Mullins]

If you get contractions at 55m, what happens after that?

More contractions. Then there are more contractions, followed by further contractions. Immediately after that comes a contraction, with several others in close succession. Contractions come next; then as I near the end of the swim there are several contractions with contractions filling in the gaps between contractions.

 

[allinapnea]

Wow, that's a lot of contractions! :duh


Great info in this thread though! Thanks!

 

[Ms Mer]

More contractions. Then there are more contractions, followed by further contractions. Immediately after that comes a contraction, with several others in close succession. Contractions come next; then as I near the end of the swim there are several contractions with contractions filling in the gaps between contractions.

LMFAO
I think thats from the school of HTFU.

 

[anthropisces]

Which training type allows me to go further into contractions and delays samba/blackout? CO2 tolerance?

 

[martin366]

Which training type allows me to go further into contractions and delays samba/blackout? CO2 tolerance?

Static + swim, or swim + static, like 30sec static + 30sec swim.
Or swim and 1 breath when contractions start and swim more.
Or co2 table like swims.
etc

Good luck!

 

[mateusz.wlodarz]

More contractions. Then there are more contractions, followed by further contractions. Immediately after that comes a contraction, with several others in close succession. Contractions come next; then as I near the end of the swim there are several contractions with contractions filling in the gaps between contractions.

Dave I have to write this - I love You:inlove

 

[Poppins]

Dave Mullins thanks for sharing your perspective. Very interesting.
Shallow guy there are numerous clubs in London please find one that will teach you the enjoyment and positive sensations and not only those hard and dangerous methods you seem to be trying on your own.

 

[Siku]

I have found a very interesting article by Natalia Molchanova with great tips for training. Most of the training (at least for beginners) can be performed on surface, with just minimum time spent underwater.

Any chance of a link to this please ShallowGuy?

Thanks

 

[neutrino]

Any chance of a link to this please ShallowGuy?

Thanks

Here you got them:

Natalia Molchanova training 1

Natalia Molchanova training 2

They were a very good hint for me when I was confused trying to make any plan for my training.
Good luck!

 

[baiyoke]

Interesting. Just had a very brief look at Nathalias training recommendations. I noticed two things:

First of all, the texts are from 2006, wich is not at all bad thing in itself, but fairly old in a "freediving scientific timeline". She seems very knowledgable though.

Secondly: It seems to recommend the opposite of a "specific" training regimen, elsewhere recommended by some of high achieving profiles on DB (specific as in: Doing a few long, near-max dives).

Things seem to work (very, very well) for Nathaliea though, and many other high achieving profiles in the sport...

At the moment, personally, I don't like to mix aerobic work and dive-related work, like puls-training (don't want to mix diverespons and work response). Don't even like to swim before diving... Not sure what to believe or how to train...

 

[baiyoke]

More contractions. Then there are more contractions, followed by further contractions. Immediately after that comes a contraction, with several others in close succession. Contractions come next; then as I near the end of the swim there are several contractions with contractions filling in the gaps between contractions.

Btw EPIC! post

 

[Kars]

Hi Shallowguy,

I think your difficulty might be the lack of relaxation during your dynamic. From your writing I get the impression you swim rather fast, and in a high intensity way.

How fast do you swim?

My suggestion is to seek relaxation.

You can try this:

- Be warm and relax for a minute (only subconscious breathing - avoiding hyperventilation). Exhale, inhale and slowly go under and gently push off, glide, and swim in slow motion. Aim for balance, keep your head down, relax all the muscles, and gently push your arm and feet, just to maintain some slow speed. Swim with the goal of relaxing and remaining relaxed. Come up when you feel the urge to breath (may coincide with the first contraction).

One lesson I learned is that I should go around barriers, instead of breaking my head battering against them. Be like water.

 

[ShallowGuy]

Hi Shallowguy,

I think your difficulty might be the lack of relaxation during your dynamic. From your writing I get the impression you swim rather fast, and in a high intensity way.

How fast do you swim?

My suggestion is to seek relaxation.

You can try this:

- Be warm and relax for a minute (only subconscious breathing - avoiding hyperventilation). Exhale, inhale and slowly go under and gently push off, glide, and swim in slow motion. Aim for balance, keep your head down, relax all the muscles, and gently push your arm and feet, just to maintain some slow speed. Swim with the goal of relaxing and remaining relaxed. Come up when you feel the urge to breath (may coincide with the first contraction).

One lesson I learned is that I should go around barriers, instead of breaking my head battering against them. Be like water.

Thanks Kars.

I guess relaxation plays huge role. For sure my position in water wasn't good for relaxation with hyper-extended head, too many distractions etc. Some of the strokes were forced.

One length (25m) takes me around 35 seconds. It's quite slow. I've seen the videos with people doing length within similar time but with less strokes. This tells me my technique sucks. I managed to reduce number of strokes to 5 with neck weight but it still poor comparing it to others.

As for being like water I must say there is something in it. Any time I'm in water just to enjoy myself (no training) I feel I could do my best. Everything seem to be effortless on those rare occasions.

 

[giddyuptiger]

Dave,

Do you train lactic specific to DNF? I can't say I feel lactic when doing DNF but I tend to lose quite a bit of power toward the end of my swim so perhaps I do?

 

[Mullins]

Head-up posture makes a huge difference in DNF Shallowguy. Probably worth about a stroke by itself.

Tanc - no, no need for DNF because power is never an issue. I do plenty for CWT though.

 

[giddyuptiger]

Head-up posture makes a huge difference in DNF Shallowguy. Probably worth about a stroke by itself.

Tanc - no, no need for DNF because power is never an issue. I do plenty for CWT though.

Thanks mate. One other question, I've heard most people tend to have longer bottom times on DNF versus DYN, but I seem to be the other way around. I can only put this to having weak DNF technique thus having to burn more o2 for my meters. Thoughts?