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Improving No Fin Dynamic

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
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Pitt

New Member
Mar 13, 2005
3
0
0
43
Hey everyone,

I am pretty new to freediving (obviously), but have been a certified Scuba diver for 10 years. I am trying to improve my no fins dynamic performance. So far I can only get to one length of the pool (25 meters). Part of my problem I know is lack of breath hold ability. However, I am having trouble getting a good underwater stroke. I have an awesome freestyle above water, but I seem to get bogged down underwater, using up too much energy. It takes me a good 11 strokes to get across. What is the best stroke that I should use??
 

jon71

New Member
Dec 2, 2004
29
3
0
50
Hi Pitt,
I'm also new to freediving, so we're in the same boat (or under it!!)
My limited advice is:
-Try not to look where you're going....you use up loads of energy. Instead - swim above one of the pool lines so you know when you are near the end. You never need to look up.
-Get some weight. (Do a thread search on this....there's loads on it. It does help a hell of a lot.)
-Relax - think about how good it feels, rather than how far you are going.
-A good breastroke will do you fine. Just take your time...don't rush.
-Make sure you have a buddy to watch over you. This is VITAL. You don't want to black out trying too hard - an angel looking over you will save your life! ( Again- check out threads on black outs etc...)
Take care and let us know how you get on.
Jon
 

Pitt

New Member
Mar 13, 2005
3
0
0
43
Relaxing is not a problem, and I always keep head down with my eyes fixed on the bottom of the pool. My breaststroke sucks bad. More specifically, I cannot generate any propulsion with my kick. When the kick portion of the stroke comes up, I come to a complete stop. To compensate, I have been doing a breaststroke with a flutter kick. I just recently watched the video of Stig breaking the world record of no fins dynamic. His kick seems to generate a fair amount of propulsion. I deally I want to get my stroke count down to 7-8 so that I won't waste as much energy.
 

Merlin

New Member
Feb 28, 2005
264
50
0
41
Hi Pitt,

Newbie here too, I just made my first 50m no fins yesterday. Jon gave some pretty good tips. A neck weight will help a lot, you just gotta experiment how much weight is good for you. Also try to get a strong stroke and glide as long as possible. I have noticed that when I swing my arms in a stretch position I burn more energy than when I keep them a little closer under my body (less torque required at the shoulders). The kick is almost like jumping, you want to kick and stretch your arms forward nearly simultaneously. Keep your arms close to your body when you are bringing them forward. Try to keep your feet and arms tight together so you get a good glide. The push off the wall is also very important.

To improve your hold you can try static bike with apnea intervals for a few seconds (whatever you feel confortable with). You can also try apnea pushups.
 
Last edited:

hteas

Well-Known Member
Mar 9, 2005
961
137
148
72
Pitt,
You might try working on being slippery. Terry Loughlin, who wrote a book called Total Immersion, talks a lot in Total Immersion and his newest book, about being slippery. You learn to move through the water with less effort using his techniques. Among them are
1) doing the beginning of each kick directly behind you in the turbulence. Most people spread their legs (especially the knees) too soon, causing way too much drag. You bend your knees directly behind you, then as you start thrusting back, you spread then really wide.
2) glide with arms fully extended. This works like extending your hull length. A longer hull will glide longer than a short one.
3) be really careful in how you bring your hands and arms forward for the next stroke. They should be really close to your chest. If you focus on the drag as you push them forward, you will be able to minimize this problem area.

Another thing I do in dynamics is a double kick. I start a short snappy frog kick as I start bringing my hands forward. By the time my hands are under my face I do a second kick, much wider and much more powerful. The first kick keeps me from coming to a dead stop, and the second gets me going so I can glide with a full extension (using hull length theory).

Another part of the Total Immersion theory is to pull or kick yourself foraward through the water, not move the water backwards. This requires starting the stroke or kick a little slower, and focusing on forward movement. You grab the water and focus on moving yourself forward. The alternative, which most swimmers use, is to try to push the water back. This causes turbulence and you lose forward momentum. You have to try it to get the feeling. It also helps to have a copy of Total Immersion or Terry Loughlin's newest book.
 
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laminar

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2001
1,129
206
168
Hi guys,

What helped me the most was doing 25m repeats on plenty of rest. Technique is so important for this discipline, much more, I think, than breath holding ability. So I would do about 20-30 reps of 25m varying speeds, but overall, trying to sense how to be as relaxed as possible. I would end up doing 4-5 strokes per length. Make sure you glide. An undulation helps me as well. This is all I did and a couple of months later I did my pb of 104m in the Canadian western regionals.

Once you figure out what kind of stroke, frequency and body mechanics suits your body, then you can work on developing apnea ability.

Pete
 

sinkweight

fat flotilla
Supporter
Aug 16, 2004
1,005
287
138
45
I have been doing a breaststroke with a flutter kick

I do the same thing. I don't have a purely repetitive stroke, really... If you haven't already seen it or done it: When your hands are going back past your shoulders, it helps to "freshen" the water against your hands by "S"-ing your hands.

The same thing applies to a helicopter leaving the ground and/or hovering. If a helicopter performs a direct, verticle take-off, it's each blade creates turbulence from the previous blade before it. This wastes energy, not to mention fuel.

If a helicopter lifts off diagonally, it each blade has a relatively much fresher supply of "solid" air to pull from. In swimming, by "S-ing" your hands down the side of your body, your "blades" have more "solid" water to push against, making your body a rowing skull rather than a smoke-billowing steam paddler.

There's my say.

May everyone in deeperblue keep their lungs dry.
 

jome

Well-Known Member
Jul 5, 2004
1,289
200
153
44
Just wanted to say something that in my opinnion cannot be stressed enough. Blance is the key. You should have such a balance, that if you stop everything, you will just float perfectly horizontal in mid water. If you achieve that, it's pretty easy to start working on your kick. Simply dive with kicks only and experiment with what gives you the best propulsion. If you're not perfectly balanced, you will struggle to keep balanced and have to constantly move around. But if you can just stop mid water at will, you can then take your time to really think about your movements and it's also quite simple to see which kind of kick takes you the furthest. If you have access to a video camera, it also helps a lot to see your technique throught the eyes of an "outsider", it's much easier to see what's wrong.

Properly weighed, I can pretty much glide half way through a 25m pool kicking of the wall. Just a few strokes then needed to cover the last part and kick off again :) For me that's about 5kg around my neck without a suit, so don't ne shy, just use as much as needed...

p.s. My technique as such sucks hard, so nothing to contribute on that subject...Same problem, the frog kick basically brings me to a halt.
 
Last edited:

megathumpzila

New Member
Feb 23, 2005
17
0
0
59
hteas said:
Pitt,
You might try working on being slippery. Terry Loughlin, who wrote a book called Total Immersion, talks a lot in Total Immersion and his newest book, about being slippery. You learn to move through the water with less effort using his techniques. Among them are
1) doing the beginning of each kick directly behind you in the turbulence. Most people spread their legs (especially the knees) too soon, causing way too much drag. You bend your knees directly behind you, then as you start thrusting back, you spread then really wide.
2) glide with arms fully extended. This works like extending your hull length. A longer hull will glide longer than a short one.
3) be really careful in how you bring your hands and arms forward for the next stroke. They should be really close to your chest. If you focus on the drag as you push them forward, you will be able to minimize this problem area.

Another thing I do in dynamics is a double kick. I start a short snappy frog kick as I start bringing my hands forward. By the time my hands are under my face I do a second kick, much wider and much more powerful. The first kick keeps me from coming to a dead stop, and the second gets me going so I can glide with a full extension (using hull length theory).

Another part of the Total Immersion theory is to pull or kick yourself foraward through the water, not move the water backwards. This requires starting the stroke or kick a little slower, and focusing on forward movement. You grab the water and focus on moving yourself forward. The alternative, which most swimmers use, is to try to push the water back. This causes turbulence and you lose forward momentum. You have to try it to get the feeling. It also helps to have a copy of Total Immersion or Terry Loughlin's newest book.



Great post, thanks.
 

jon71

New Member
Dec 2, 2004
29
3
0
50
jome said:
p.s. My technique as such sucks hard, so nothing to contribute on that subject...Same problem, the frog kick basically brings me to a halt.

Jome,
Don't you find that weight keeps you going?
I look at the floor, and as soon as I start to lose momentum I do another pull/kick. Having the weight seems to keep things a hell of a lot smoother, and I slow down a lot more slowly.....if that makes sense! :duh
 

Pitt

New Member
Mar 13, 2005
3
0
0
43
Thanks! There is some great info here. Does anyone else have 2 cents that they want to contribute as far as stroke efficiency is concerned??
 

watts

small wins
Jun 27, 2004
548
55
118
Weight is very important i use a neck weight and another neckweight thingy only longer around my waist to bring my legs down a bit as i was to top heavy.You want to be slightly bouyant at the start of the dynamic as you tend to sink more at the end. I also do sets of arms only then legs only 25s.
Cheers Nathan Watts
 
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