Increase bottom time

[benbala66]

I everyone im asking myself what to do to increase my bottom time, what to practice.

 

[joebluewater]

hello! its my first time here...
i hope evything came better...

 

[paddyc23]

For me personally, ive only been spearfishing 9 months, but i find, dont go spearfishing, go diving without spearguns,use wet suit,weight belt etc, then go out to about 5-7m near rocks, then dive down and hold yourself onto a rock at the bottom, and learn to relax, i personally sometimes close my eyes so i relax even more, i use to only be able to hold my breath for 20secs, after doing this for a wk every 2nd day i can now hold my breath for 1min-1.30 if i totally relax myself, its all about relaxing

 

[trux]

For me personally, ive only been spearfishing 9 months, but i find, dont go spearfishing, go diving without spearguns,use wet suit,weight belt etc, then go out to about 5-7m near rocks, then dive down and hold yourself onto a rock at the bottom, and learn to relax, i personally sometimes close my eyes so i relax even more, i use to only be able to hold my breath for 20secs, after doing this for a wk every 2nd day i can now hold my breath for 1min-1.30 if i totally relax myself, its all about relaxing

That's one of the most fool advices ever posted here, and I hope nobody will listen to it. Training static apnea ("relaxing") in depth and alone is one of the worst ideas ever - each year several freedivers doing exactly that, die in pools and in the sea. Check out the archive - you'll find many such cases documented here.

If you want to learn relaxing in apnea, either sign with a local freediving club and train static (and dynamic) apnea in secure environment with buddies who will supervise you and teach you the proper technique. Or do it dry on your bed. Never try pushing the limits under water alone.

 

[cdavis]

A little rhetoric cool down might be a good idea. If new guys feel like they have been beat over the head, it doesn't help much. The technique works; I've used it with great results. but not alone. For the vast majority of new divers, it would be very effective as long as it was not overdone. That's the rub. Overdo it, especially without a trained buddy, and it can kill you. Futhermore, for some divers, and we don't know who until its too late, its real easy to overdo it. So, try the technique, but get a trained buddy first. If you don't know what a trained buddy is, use the "search" function, research the subject and practice rescues with a buddy. As soon as you can, find some expert advice, a freediving couse or freediving club where you can learn even better safety and lots of other stuff.

Benbala66, a good answer to your question isn't possible without some idea of your skill level. Post some details in this thread or in your profile; you will get better answers.

Connor

 

[Fondueset]

I advocate deep relaxation during surface intervals with slow, unstrained breathing. It takes experience to sense your CO2 level and not overdo it. I have to agree that holding yourself on the bottom and staying down as long as you can is extremely dangerous. Personally I never reference my watch DURING a dive - only after, and before for surface intervals.

 

[trux]

A little rhetoric cool down might be a good idea. If new guys feel like they have been beat over the head, it doesn't help much.

I am sorry if my tone sounded too harsh, but in fact I chose it intentionally. I believe strong words are very much in place here. These posts are being read by unexperienced beginners including very young kids who may take such advices for serious, and may kill themselves. Having seen too many threads here on DB about freedivers dying when training static apnea alone in depth, makes those of us who read this forum regularly, pretty aware that it is far too common and too dangerous. Unfortunately those who post the question "how to improve my bottom time" (the most frequent one here on DB), they apparently did not take the time to read through the forum, and are not aware of how many young people unnecessarily die in this way. And I feel that if another DB member sends the newbies and kids the wrong way, I think it is necessary to react rather hysterically, otherwise the answer may easily remain overseen or ignored. So on my mind a little beating over the head of the first responder was needed.

 

[paddyc23]

Stupid, i personally dont think so trux, i, me, myself personally find this methed excellent, weither statistics say so or not, ive increased my bottom time by triple by doing this, i started spearfishing, a smoking 20 a day youngster, who could hardly hold his breath for 30secs outside of water, i now after a bit of self relaxation and seriousness, can hold my breath for over a min, pushing, min and half in cold water, i suppose each to are own, Im not stupid i dont hold myself down at the bottom until i turn green thats just stupidity and i shore wouldnt go down past 5m, id stay clost to the beach as i could i wouldnt just wounder out to 20m and dive down willy dillying hoping for the best

 

[Fondueset]

I'm between trux and cdavis on this one. Dry Statics are relatively safe and will help you be able to sense yourself and relax. However; NEVER expect your open water bottom times to be close to your dry static times. My best times are generally very easy dives, with plenty left over when I surface, and no attempt on my part to make them long dives. The fact that practice breathholds staying down in open water has helped extend times is not a surprise. Black-outs almost allways are. There are two major aspects to good bottom times - comfort/relaxation in the water and breath-hold ability. I really don't think you should work on both of them at the same time.
My times increased 40% when I focused on deep, mostionless, relaxation during surface intervals. At depths under 8m I sometimes dive with half a lung-full or less - to compensate for being under-weighted. With the above recipe my times are still better than they were before - and nearly as good as with lungs full.

Take it easy, have fun - don't have breath-holding contests underwater. My answer to your question is - practice holding on land if you want to. Work on deep relaxation and energy-efficient swimming (minimizing muscular effort) in the water. Place your limit - in the water - at when you start to feel uncomfortable - dont' push it. You should be able to glide gently to the surface with a smile on your face.

 

[trux]

Paddy23, I wish you good luck. If you decided risking your life for nothing, when there is no reason for improving your performance in such way, it is your choice, but please avoid advising other beginners such hazardeous techniques. There are plenty of other safe ways how you can learn relaxing and knowing your body reactions during apnea and there is absolutely no reason why you would need learning relaxing at depth in the sea (and alone).

There are plenty of young people who died exactly doing that - and often they were just at the bottom of a pool while a life guard or a friend was informed - at freediving training such security is simply completely insufficient. Look for example at this thread: http://forums.deeperblue.net/safety/68814-bad-news-sweden.html?highlight=sweden+died but there are regularly such cases being reported here on DB, and there are even many more of them in reality.

The pool bottom or the sea is really not a place for such solo training. So please avoid advising it to beginners who may take you for serious, and may die stupidly. Those who want to improve their performance, please get an experienced buddy, join a freediving club, pass a freediving course, or learn and train dry, but for the sake of your life, do not try improving your performance in water alone. The sea is beautiful for diving and exploring it, but not for trying to beat your personal bests solo (and dying solo).

Paddy23, call me rude, but I still consider your advice unwise, stupid, reckless, and completely irresponsible.

 

[cdavis]

Paddy, Let me see if I can explain why Trux is so fired up, without beating you over the head. What you are doing has worked fine for you so far, but it is still dangerous to do it alone. I understand that it doesn't look like that to you, but trust us on this, its a fact. Even more important, it can be Extremely dangerous for somebody else and we have no way of knowing who that might be. Here's some of why. Some people naturally have better c02 tolerance than others and/or are more hard headed or reckless. Some of them can fairly easily push themselves to black out, even early in their freedive career and without realizing that they are pushing. Furthermore lots of other divers may BO early and without warning under some circumstances. If you advise someone else to follow your lead on something like this on an open forum where anybody of any skill level can read it, you can be pretty sure that somebody, somewhere will misinterpret what you mean, or overdo it, or have real low tolerence,or, etc. People really can get killed following your lead. That is why you see over and over again, the matra, "dive with a buddy, dive with a buddy."

Enjoy

Connor

 

[glennv]

I agree (also with the tone) 100% with Trux.
Go ahead and do whatever you want , but do not start advising newbies this very dangerous practice. If you did not realize it was dangerous. Ok. But if experienced people from this board tell you it is dangerous and come with examples of people dying from this practice, take there advise and at least stop telling other people to follow you example :rcard
Do some googeling yourselve and look at all the deaths and see how many of them happened in very shallow pools unattended solo training or solo spearfishing. They all probably thought like you that it all went very easy and safe for them and they never had a problem and coold stay longer at the bottem each time. You only need one problem to die.........

 

[paddyc23]

Im not giving others advise on how to dive, im only putting threw my own experiences to others about how i dive myself, im very experienced in my own mind and comfortable with wat i can do myself, Im not here to learn or teach anyone how to increase there own bottom time, thats completly up to themselves and hopfully they will listen to the DB experts, rather than myself, Me myself will use my own techniques which i learn from myself weither or not the DB experts say its a good idea or not, Im completly relaxed in my own mind and comfortable with my own limits, And i want to put accross that i would like if the other users and persons use the DB experts advice rather than my own, Beacause i dont want anyone using my technique unless they are mentally strong, Im very experienced in relaxation, i also have a regerious weight, running and swimming training which i do everyday, so i have to be 100% confident in myself to do my own breath holding techniques and id like to advice others not to copy my own techniques, talk to the DB experts,,,Thank you

 

[joeyvee]

I am sorry if my tone sounded too harsh, but in fact I chose it intentionally. I believe strong words are very much in place here. These posts are being read by unexperienced beginners including very young kids who may take such advices for serious, and may kill themselves. Having seen too many threads here on DB about freedivers dying when training static apnea alone in depth, makes those of us who read this forum regularly, pretty aware that it is far too common and too dangerous. Unfortunately those who post the question "how to improve my bottom time" (the most frequent one here on DB), they apparently did not take the time to read through the forum, and are not aware of how many young people unnecessarily die in this way. And I feel that if another DB member sends the newbies and kids the wrong way, I think it is necessary to react rather hysterically, otherwise the answer may easily remain overseen or ignored. So on my mind a little beating over the head of the first responder was needed.

You are 100% right. I am an extreme newb and was about to go try this in the pool outside. And to top it off my back is killing me so I took a pain reliever that has adverse effects on breathing. So not a good idea. Im glad I saw your post. Now I can continue to search for exercises to get my bottom time increased. I remember swimming very far distances underwater when I was younger. Before I started smoking for 12 years. gload i quit. now I can get down to business anyone in Hawaii wanna teach a newb?

 

[trux]

I am really thankful for your comment, Joeyvee, and happy that advices here on DB can improve the awareness of the risks among freediving beginners.

As for the learning - there are indeed several member from Hawaii, and I think there are some clubs too (but more likely spearfishing oriented). Also PFI, and FII use to do often courses in your location, so check out their websites for the closest day - I think it is the best thing you can do for improving your bottom-time, technique, and know-how.

 

[iv3]

Hi Folks, not giving advice here or springing to the defence of a fellow Irishman or to berate him either.
Just a question of what does one do if they have neither a dive buddy or dive club?
I have been solo-diving for 5 years now, moving from 5m to the 40-50m range and FRC to 20m. I have taken a couple of courses but if I don't dive solo then I don't dive period.
How deep could I go with proper safety cover...? Who knows!
But I have built up my depth progressively and within my limits, yet every day is different and limits can change too.
However, to enjoy my sport I cannot relax and improve with the spectre of SWB hanging over me.
I live in Belfast where a freediver is looked upon as a bit of a 'nut'.
Just my two cents worth.

deeply, Marc.

 

[cdavis]

Hi Iv3,

You are in the same situation as a lot of us. If the choice is dive solo or don't dive, I'll go diving, but I don't like it and stay shallow, even less so as time goes by. I can't give you any advice, other than the obvious, take it very easy and use DB to explore how to make your dives safer, higher co2 levels, etc. Its dangerous, we all know that, and staying within what you think are your limits is no sure thing. I just watched a buddy BO at the end of a dive that was well within his depth/time envelope. No suggestion that he was anywhere near his limit or in any kind of trouble at all. We still haven't figured that one out.

Connor

 

[iv3]

Hi Cdavis, thanks for the reply.
That obviously is the fear, that we can get into trouble even on a conservative dive like your friend.
It is also one of the reasons I changed to FRC, to use the stress or shock to increase the O2 reserves, aka S.Murat's theories.
I will continue to try and better my diving slowly and wish you well on your own dives.
I hope no one will have to read any posts about fatalities during any dives as it is such a tremendous waste of life!

deeply, Marc.

 

[trux]

iv3, sorry to tell it, but solo diving to 50m is definitely not safe at all, and certainly not in safe margins, regardless if you are otherwise capable of going to 100m or doing 3-4 minutes dives. You should really do the maximum for finding a buddy, or founding a club. Apparently there are freedivers in Ireland, so I bet you will find some in your area, or willing to travel and meet for common diving. Have a look at the thread http://forums.deeperblue.com/general-freediving/83085-irish-freedivers.html - Charlie wants to found AIDA Ireland. Although you are in Northern Ireland, it may interest you anyway. In the thread there are also references to other Irish freedivers, for example those registered on my website - there are ten of them.

And if you do not find anyone close enough to you, simply found a club. If you put posters about the club to all local pools, and send to local swimming, scuba, and other water related clubs, I am pretty sure you will find a nice group of people interested in diving. Most of them won't be experienced enough at the beginning, but investing the time and effort to teach them will pay you back soon.

 

[iv3]

Hi Trux,
thanks for the feed-back and the threads, I will check them out.
Haven't really been deeper than 40m past few months as I am concentrating on my FRC with some good advice from Eric Fattah, ie. go slow and know your body signals. Also, Seb Naslunds booklet is excellent and very inspirational.
Tried to form a club but came into resistance with local pool authorities and the fact that I don't have any formal qualifications above 2* Aida certificate, and courses are unfortunately a bit expensive for me at the moment.
Also, I was the only committed diver after we managed to get access to a scuba club training night and everybody dwindled away after a few weeks and I couldn't afford to pay for the lane we were using.
Anyway, maybe the guys in Southern Ireland can help me out but I live in Belfast and drive 50 miles further north each weekend to get to the sea.

deeply, Marc.