Ireland Spearing 2012

[danas]

so read a lot ... all activity's are very welcome , specially on writing legislation's on paper people need to know what is legal and not ,to spearfish and take in Ireland. lot of misunderstanding still in air. even now, I'm not sure are we legally own and use spearguns ... so it's brilliant that some one is taking its own time to put thinks together .
Neal , I totally agreed with u on politicization in very short time between members. I have been involved to start several clubs in Ireland , and all end up in a same route :martial . I can see now in a year, max 2. there will be at least 3 clubs of spearfishing Ireland. it just nature of people that want to own thinks

 

[vasile]

Regarding our existence in this forum for most of us, or at least me is part of the spearfisher life.The amount of information and expertise I gain from this site is monumental. The pleasure to interact with iconic figures like Eric Fattah to the last spearo in South Corea,Japan,New Zeeland ,Australia and so on can't be described in a few words,basically I own prety much to this forum my development as a spearo and a freediver.I'm not in any advanced league but for my personal development this forum is and will be great asset.As zarasutra suggested to have a regional forum which is going to be addressed to the beginners and visitor spearos in Ireland to find out what to hunt, were to hunt and to realize that Ireland has a long reach history of spearfishing ,and that we care about our waters and our fish stock, is another issue.Deeper blue is and will continue to be 'the mother 'of apneea arena, regarding the direction of our regional club.

 

[zaratustra]

dont see why you cant just link in this forum...reckon the most experienced spearos in ireland are all here... dont try and fix something that aint broke

The new forum under irish domain name will be more obvious and easy to find by beginners. Even now they are finding facebook page before deeperblue forums.

 

[kookiebrew]

looks like you have your mind made up....well best of luck

 

[zaratustra]

looks like you have your mind made up....well best of luck

If we have our mind made up we wouldn't be here talking.

 

[kookiebrew]

well if its a matter of finding the facebook page or the spearfishing ireland page first thats why a link to this forum on both would be a good idea...too much great info on here not to share....

 

[Derekn]

Just to add to Vasile's post, from his and my own separate enquiries from two different garda sources...we both have been told that you Do Not need a licence for a banded speargun. The banded spearguns can be considered an offensive weapon if an individual was using it for a purpose other than spearfishing. I was told that its ok to carry it in your car along with the rest of your diving equipment while travelling to and from the sea but it should be removed and stored safely in your home when not in use.

Pneumatic Spearguns are not illegal but are considered restricted firearms and do require a licence and additional security to own one.
A firearms application form:
(http://www.garda.ie/Documents/User/FCA1%202012%20.pdf )
needs to be filled out and submitted to your local Garda Station and will probably require an inspection of your premises and alarm system. The form is quiet detailed and requires references, access to your medical history and there is no guarantee that it will be granted.

 

[kookiebrew]

any idea when this organisation will be in place Derek

 

[danas]

One of opinions - any legislations you put in on web site , translate to several foreign languages - Lithuanian , Russian , Polish , Rumanian. That is biggest "offenders" Of Irish law by unknowing and been lazy to transtale them self. It will create lot of simplicity in understanding Spearfishing law.
I can offer my help to translate to Lithuanian and Russian .

 

[Derekn]

We were hoping to get it launched as soon as possible with a website to attract members from the Irish spearfishing community. The whole idea of setting this up is to protect what we already have and to be as inclusive and respectful of each others needs and opinions as possible. We would seek to inform people of the law regarding spearguns, bag limits, closed season and "No Go" areas like rivers and canals etc.. The association would be a not for profit organisation and those that would serve it would do so by giving what they can of their own free time for the betterment of spearfishing in Ireland.

I too have enjoyed the chat, company and hospitality from members that I have met through this forum and would hope to avoid any politicking and power trips. I know opinions will differ from time to time but I believe in majority rule. Its getting off to a bumpy start but please don't write it off just yet.

I would like to say that I'm a site supporter here and I will remain so, I share Vasile and Johnnys sentiments entirely and there is no intention on my part to replace what we already have here. There's a fantastic community here and I owe many members, Irish, British and International a huge gratitude for the encouragement, help and advice they have given me. I will continue to post here and as always look forward to reading the wealth of other post here too.

 

[fcallagy]

Lads kudos on the licenseing stuff and deadly work on the site rafal but I am completely opposed to an Irish forum on the site. db is where many of us started our journey and I for one am staying and wont be posting in forum if it goes ahead. I would much rather see it linked to here where we already have 1. a base of people, 2. support from Stephan, db for fish of the month etc, 3.contributors from worldwide including current and ex world champs.
So take it easy as its easy to stir up sentiment on a forum because we cant have intonation in writing as we can in speech. So whats written below might seem harsh and its not intended to be just how I feel but bottom line is, new forum in then I,m out and looks like I aint the only one so lets leave it to one side and be done with it and focus on getting the organisation up and running.

 

[spudlington]

Well said Feargus.
In my opinion putting a forum on the proposed website completely detracts from the proposed association's credibility as a representative body. From the description it is now sounding more like a club. While a club is a good idea, I'm sure we will see a few develop soon, it is not what I feel is most needed to represent and protect spearfishing in Ireland. What is needed is a representative umbrella body, devoid of the politics that may arise in clubs. I have offered my help via PM in establishing any such body. However if the intention is to organise more along club lines with a forum etc then I say best of luck but I would divert my energies elsewhere, namely forming the professional stand-alone body needed to liaise with state agencies.
As anyone who is a student of Irish history will know, the first thing on the agenda of any newly formed political party or body is the split into another two new parties!

Tiernan

 

[bobdonny]

This very arguement is one of the reasons I was reluctant to get involved... and until I can see the aims of this association become a lot more transparant I will still be wary.

From all my reading I can only really see two needs. 1) To provide information on spearfishing (for beginners and non spearo's) and 2) To promote and market spearfishing and generally let people know we are not the bad guys.

I can't for the life of me see any other needs?
Strictly speaking a 3 or 4 page brochure website with a blog for announcements should be adaquate. Also, 4 members on a board should be fine (chairman, PRO, secretary, treasurer) keep it simple...

To any potential org: its important to put personal ideals to the side and think about "who" you are representing and "why"...
Obviously your main priority is to represent the spearo's, whereever they come from, but why?

I am still struggling with the why...
I have my own gear, I've sorted my own training and I've found pertinant information (mostly on DB forums tbh). I am friendly and polite where I dive and I have never had any problems with fishermen/locals... the worse Iv'e had was diving for scallops with baldy when a fishing boat hassled us...for scallops for his dinner

To be honest... why on earth would I want to join an organisation or ANOTHER forum (i've lost track of the ones I frequent currently)... I dont want insurance (for a spearing instructor I can understand, but for lil ol' me??).... I don't want any discounted courses etc. what can the organisation offer me and how much will it cost me...
Cost!! This is the main point... what is the cost/benefit to me?

I have the same arguement for rod fishing (unlike Neal) I pick up my rod and go from shore or boat... I am not part of any club or association (bar a few informal websites) and can't really see a need for me unless I intend to compete or teach?


How about all grand idea's and future directions are put on hold. Elect a small 4 person governing body. Put up a website with information for newbs and foreigners.
Associate with the fisheries board (not sure about underwater council seems a little pointless TBH the only reason I can see is for historical purposes... but why pay for that?) and organise 2 meets a year for spearo's.
Spearo's can sign a petition (for free) and agree to following your code of conduct and they can recieve a membership number / card and can carry this when spearing that the law can check.

Let it evolve slowly from there... and if it doesn't want to evolve... dont force it!

I don't want to piss off anyone but the above is constructive criticisms...

If an organisation can promote spearing to non spearo's and beginners I will endorse it. Anything else that will affect me, in my love of spearing and diving...and in my pocket.... forget it!

 

[johnnybuoy]

Great points Rob but insurance is a huge concern of mine. If u pop your clogs on a dive your family won't get a penny and are left to pay the bills alone. Blunt, but that's what it boils down to. I never ever go on scuba without insurance. If I'm found floating with a speargun in my hands, that is not considered snorkelling and my misses gets jack shit. Im not too sure if insurance can be obtained for spearfishing without a club or association in place. That's my main concern and second to that is the conservation of the sport.
I'm also wary about Cft being in on it too. Too much politics. I've been dealing with them 13 years now. I'm not sure what they can bring to our table.......

 

[kookiebrew]

Guys might be a stupid question but is the forum and website that zara is doing part of the new organisation or is it something he is doin himself.... because it sounds more like a club than organisation.... if clubs start popping up all over the country then i fear the dreaded competitions might start up again.... dont see any point whatsoever in them... i go spearing for the love of the sport and to put fresh fish on my table not to shoot as much fish as i possible can for bragging rights.... i like bobdonnys points, but johhny is right about the insurance...thats something i dont have and would be very interested in getting if possible...there is no need to go overboard on the website just a place to find rules and regulations for newcomers and tourists... as for another forum, i think deeperblue has everything...we all learned so much on here why try and fix something thats not broken

 

[johnnybuoy]

Very true. I feel a club isn't needed. Id hate to see competitions pop up too. As rob said, keep the website simple,make the point we want to make and leave it at that. Anymore than an association and I'll bow out.

 

[grantl]

Feargus & Spudlingtin have both made similar good arguments against a separate forum which I'd imagine most people would agree with.
Personally, and it is nothing to do with me as I'm in Scotland, I really think a national organisation representing Spearos is a great idea and I am really interested to watch it develop.

Working with Deeper Blue and keeping discussion on these forums has real advantages for the organisation but, possibly more importantly for the sport as a whole, it may become a resource for people in other parts of the UK that have an interest in creating similar representative bodies.
Good luck with it all - fishing and politics can be a tricky one !

 

[vasile]

Most of all an informative site,promote conservation of our waters,a guide for spearo visitors,put the beginners on the right track and not last insurance for the potential members would be the main goal of the Association.We don't want to get involved in any argument or politic debates,we will be here to listen to our spearo needs and bring it forward to the responsible authorities.Once up and running the board will be formed from elected members in yearly bases.

 

[bobdonny]

Great points Rob but insurance is a huge concern of mine. If u pop your clogs on a dive your family won't get a penny and are left to pay the bills alone
.......
Im not too sure if insurance can be obtained for spearfishing without a club or association in place. That's my main concern and second to that is the conservation of the sport.

Regarding insurance... its almost certainly third party liability insurance, and almost certainly NOT life assurance, that an association will off by default. I.e. in case you hit another boat, or shoot your friend in the leg etc.

Same thing if you fall off a pier fishing, or even from your boat fishing... what insurance do you have? Most likely no life cover (and I don't mean your dads as he is legally obliged to have it ). You'll need a personal life assurance policy that will cover you for spearfishing and when you find one that doesnt cost an arm and a leg let me know!

If you want insurance Dan won't cover you for spearing, feargus can tell you what insurance they cover. Neither will any of the freediving bodies so I'm not sure what the underwater council can do. You could try some australian bodies... I went there when I found kendo insurance when I was started that org but it may be pricy... likewise you could use the crowd the BSA use Dive Master Insurance | Diving Insurance | Equipment Insurance etc.

I must say though, it will be hard to please everyone to an appropriate level of insurance at a competitive cost for members. I, like you, would be concerned with thorough insurance for family etc. but younger spearo's without families may want more basic... it is a nightmare to organise and even at the end of it, if thats the cover you want you will most likely still need to find it yourself.

 

[Iveros]

Hi there,

Greetings to all diving folks of Ireland, just posted my introduction thread, would be great if you could have a look to maybe help me with 1 or 2 issues: http://forums.deeperblue.com/introductions-greets/95223-new-mer-man-south-ireland-says-hi-has-some-questions.html#post884422

Thanks a lot!