Irregular regular heartbeat.

[5kgLifter]

I think the scientific section seems ideal for this query:

This may seem like a really stupid title for the thread, but I did wonder if having an irregular regular heartbeat makes a difference in freediving. An irregular regular heartbeat for those not familiar with the term, means that the heart beats 3 times then skips a beat and then repeats the cycle, making it irregular but regular at the same time. Does anyone know if the skipped heartbeat does make a difference? I realise it's possible that there are few, or maybe no others, on this forum with such a heartbeat, since I'm presuming it's not a common thing.

I also wonder whether my 49 bpm, during a breath-hold, takes in to account the skipped beat or not; it's kinda confusing for me, but interests me more than bothers me.

 

[podge]

What with that heart beat of yours you haven’t by any chance got a bolt through your neck, wear really heavy boots and happen to have been born during a lightning storm?roflroflroflrofl

Only joking mate as it happens I think it would be interesting to know whether many people who dive have irregular heart beats?
A good friend of mine has a bit of a dodgy ticker (misses a beat now and then but not regular like yours) and he carry’s on ok with freedive spear fishing.

 

[5kgLifter]

What with that heart beat of yours you haven’t by any chance got a bolt through your neck, wear really heavy boots and happen to have been born during a lightning storm?roflroflroflrofl

Only joking mate as it happens I think it would be interesting to know whether many people who dive have irregular heart beats?
A good friend of mine has a bit of a dodgy ticker (misses a beat now and then but not regular like yours) and he carry’s on ok with freedive spear fishing.

No, no bolt through neck, or heavy boots .

 

[Mullins]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16037880?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=5&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed

I get pronounced arrhythmia following most breathholds over about 80%. However it seldom occurs immediately post-dive so doesn't affect my recovery. It comes on about 30 seconds after surfacing as my HR begins to slow back down.

As an aside, the most drastic bradycardia I ever experience is post-dive. I haven't measured my max HR on surfacing but it seems to be in the 140-160bpm range. Within a minute or so that reduces to about 40bpm (this I have measured) and stays there for 5-10mins. Resting HR is 50bpm.

 

[Mullins]

I did wonder if having an irregular regular heartbeat makes a difference in freediving.

I don't think it would. The only affect it might have could be to reduce bloodflow to your brain if it occurred at an inopportune time such as when you surfaced. At that time you probably need a strong, regular heartbeat.

 

[kkobs]

Hi!
I was just about to make a similar thread
i have two paired extrasystolas(ES) every 10regular heartbeats in rest(or even less, the occurence is kinda irregular), so i wonder what effect can it have on my breatholds? I've never made an ECG during apnea.

 

[5kgLifter]

I don't think it would. The only affect it might have could be to reduce bloodflow to your brain if it occurred at an inopportune time such as when you surfaced. At that time you probably need a strong, regular heartbeat.

Many thanks for your replies, and info on personal experience concerning the heart beat alterations, that helps.

The thing is, in theory my heart beat is strong and 'regular', it's just that it doesn't go:
bump, bump, bump, bump, bump, bump...

it goes:
bump, bump, bump, skip, bump, bump, bump, skip,...


If you see what I mean; but I will certainly take the surfacing issue in to account, since I know that's when the period of danger can be greater.

 

[5kgLifter]

Hi!
I was just about to make a similar thread
i have two paired extrasystolas(ES) every 10regular heartbeats in rest(or even less, the occurence is kinda irregular), so i wonder what effect can it have on my breatholds? I've never made an ECG during apnea.

Is that what the skipped beat is named, or is that an extra beat? I'll have to check on the internet under that term; I have been trying to find info using terms like 'beat/pulse...'.

Pleased to see that I'm not alone in this, at least it gives some point of reference with others, which may be of help in assessing any issues of danger etc.

 

[kkobs]

Is that what the skipped beat is named, or is that an extra beat? I'll have to check on the internet under that term; I have been trying to find info using terms like 'beat/pulse...'.

Pleased to see that I'm not alone in this, at least it gives some point of reference with others, which may be of help in assessing any issues of danger etc.

Extrasystolas are extra beats,they come in pauses between regular heartbeats. In my example they come averagely on about every twelfth pause between regular heartbeats and also in my example they always come in pair. My HR is about 50.

 

[efattah]

For me, stress in work and also stress from training can combine to give me occasional arrythmias in the form of PVC's (premature ventricular contractions). During a time of high stress I would get more than 1000 PVC's per day.

Now days, I get a few (2-4) during intense apnea training sessions, and sometimes during max dives, and usually none when I'm not diving. Sometimes a high intensity run will give me a few shortly post-run.

 

[5kgLifter]

Extrasystolas are extra beats,they come in pauses between regular heartbeats. In my example they come averagely on about every twelfth pause between regular heartbeats and also in my example they always come in pair. My HR is about 50.

I'll have to ask the doc next time I go, sometime in the next decade , whether there is a specific name for the irregular regular pattern beat that I have...there most likely is, but it's difficult to research if I don't know it.

50 HR is that at rest or during a hold.

My normal resting heart rate is around 53 bpm (maybe a bit more, haven't checked in a while on waking up), but during a hold it gets to 49 bpm...which I was amazed at...because I thought it may have got higher after doing an apnea table.

 

[5kgLifter]

For me, stress in work and also stress from training can combine to give me occasional arrythmias in the form of PVC's (premature ventricular contractions). During a time of high stress I would get more than 1000 PVC's per day.

Now days, I get a few (2-4) during intense apnea training sessions, and sometimes during max dives, and usually none when I'm not diving. Sometimes a high intensity run will give me a few shortly post-run.

WOW, that would worry me, which I know would make that problem even worse. I'm fortunate in that I don't get arrythmias in that sense, but it's good to see that it doesn't overly affect your diving. Do you ever alter training sessions to suit, or lessen them, or just go with the flow so-to-speak? And do you find them a problem, or a worry, in general when considering a dive?

Thanx
5kg

 

[rnsaicic]

Several years ago, after inadvertent intoxication with a cardiotoxic substance, I have developped a proclivity toward some types of cardiac arrhytmias, mostly supraventricular extrasystols (SVES), occasionally ventricular extrasystols (VES) and short episodes of tachicardia (a block of the right branch also present). These episodes occur with variable frequency, and are influenced by stress, excessive physical efforts, use of alcohol, coffee,… One should know exactly the type of arrythmia one suffers, in order to estimate the risk. In my case, most of the aforementioned phenomenons are not considered as life threatening; however, knowing that surfacing puts the heart under extreme pressure and provoke arrythmias even at perfectly healthy subjects, I do not intend to go to the limit in deep diving. Certain types of VES are much more dangerous than the others. Thus, people with so called “R to T” VES should better restrain from free diving, as well as those suffering from ventricular tachycardia, etc. A good idea might be to use a pulse-meter and to follow how various phases of a dive influence the heart-rate.
Radomir

 

[wes]

I have read about some people on surfacing that do an exhale and then an inhale and hold it while contracting their chests (I think this is called a hook breath) and hold it for maybe 15 seconds or longer instead of the more common rapid breaths that people do on surfacing where they do maybe 6 breath in 5 to 10 seconds. I was wondering if anyone had measured the recovery spike and dip of heart rates for these different styles of recovery breathing on exit. Perhaps the single long hook breath would reduce the max spike and then sudden drop in heart rate that happens on recovery in most freedivers.

Cheers Wes Lapp

 

[wes]

I have had my own instances of irregular heart beat. I am not sure the technical name. I can tell mine when my heart beats maybe 1/3 to 1/2 faster then it normally would and every third beat feels a bit "soft" instead of sharp and hard when I feel it with my hand on my chest. I also will put my hand on my artery on my neck and there I can feel the two good heart beats and then nothing on the third "squishy" heart beat. I have had three episodes of this as follows:

First Episode:
The morning after a heavy pool workout of short recovery interval dynamics the night before, I was riding my bike to work up a very steep hill so had to work very hard and I stopped and took a drink of juice which I had with ice in it and drank too fast and got a "ice cream headache" but in my throat and chest and not in my head from the very cold juice. I felt at once the irregular heart beat with lasted for about 5 minutes as I rested on my bike (its a recumbent so I was sitting comfortably in the seat).

Second Episode (about 3 months after the first):
In the evening after a heavy pool workout of short recovery interval dynamics that afternoon, (so about 3 hours earlier) I was making smoothies at home and took a big drink of one too fast and got a similar "ice cream headache" but in my throat and chest and not in my head from the very cold juice. I felt at once the irregular heart beat with lasted for only 30 seconds as I immediately laid down on the floor perfectly still and it went away. At this point I thought I had figured this all out that I should not drink very cold things quickly at all, especially after training and to lie down if I got any irregular heart beat. I should also add that I have done hundreds and hundreds of dry static tables and pool workouts and only had these two instances until this third one which was longer and more scary.

Third episode (about 6 months after the second):

I have been experimenting with more intense short recovery interval dynamics and this pool training session did a very intense set of 4 each 2x25m (50m total) DNF swims in a 25m pool on 90 second intervals. I normally do these with fins and on 90 sec intervals and can do them contiuously for up to an hour though they are much more strenuous with no fins so I was going to do a set of 10 sets no fins and stopped after only 4 as I felt pretty maxed. I did not measure my SaO2 though estimate it would be about 55% from previous experiments. This intense short recovery interval training is not designed to push hypoxia as much as to push the dive response which gets very intense as the intervals goes on, especially the first 3-5 sets so after 4 sets no fins I had a huge dive response kicked in and I remember about 30 seconds after my surface and recovery having my safety buddy feel my chest to kind of show him as he is a new freediver how my heart rate would drop a ton (down to maybe 30 bpm) for 5 to 10 seconds if I did a really slow relaxed exhale inbetween normal breaths. Then I did saftey for his interval training and we did some other stuff and at the end of our 90 minute training session we ended with 1x25m sprints with maybe 30 second recovery periods so pretty "easy" from a hypoxic stand point. This is when we do sprint muscle training and always at then end of practice as it tires the legs alot. Normally I do 2-4 lengths though today we did 6-8 lengths as we were having fun and they felt really easy and working on some technique together. Then at the end of the last one I felt my heart go into its irregular heart beat as before while I was still in the water resting after the last sprint. So I relaxed and recovered and could still feel my irregular heart rate then jumped up to the pool edge and laid down still for maybe 3 minutes and still felt it happening. Now when this is happening I am not short of breath or in any pain or uncomfortable at all, just that I notice this thing happening that doesn't seem too good. So after resting I thought well, maybe if I get my suit off and lay down it will help so slowly and cautiously I remove my suit and shower and then lay down and relax again and still have this irregular heart beat. So then I remember I have some juice and a snack in my car so I go to my car and rest again and drink and eat some for maybe 1-0 minutes and still have this thing going. So I then think if I should go to the hospital (where my friend is an ER doc) or go home and I decide to go home, mainly as I fear the extra stress of going to the hospital may somehow make this worse (maybe not the best decision, I kind of wish I had gone to get an EKG so would have some more knowledge about this). So I drive home about 20 minutes and still have an irregular heart beat then rest at home for 3 hours and still have it though its a bit less intense so I go to bed now about 11pm and set to wake up every 3 hours as I am a bit worried about going into a really deep sleep and thru the night everytime I wake feel and measure my irregular heart beat and notice it is getting weaker and fainter until finally at the morning it is gone.

So here are my conclusions:

-irregular heart beat is tied to dive response and not hypoxia as I have had lots of lots of very low hypoxic episodes and never irregular heart beat with them and always after repetitive training designed to increase/express maximum dive response

-irregular heart beat affects can last 12 hours after diver response and maybe longer.

-irregular heart beat can be set off by drinking very cold liquids quickly thus chilling the chest/heart area.

-irregular heart beats can be set off by stopping suddenly after max exercise attempts like sprinting.

Cheers Wes Lapp

 

[Mr. X]

It sounds non-serious as discussed. However, a friend & colleague (younger than myself) was fitted with some kind of pace-maker/re-starter device last year after investigation of his irregular heartbeat, after he collapsed coming out of the pool one lunch break. He is a fit guy, a swimming instructor for several decades. Ironically, he is currently only allowed to swim with fins (to avoid the risk of ripping internal wire out of place presumably).

 

[Salehthefish]

It is an excellent thread i have learned manythings since i am facing similar cases!!! This has happend when i gone through syptoplasti opearation for my nose during the operation my heart beat went very low and they gave me three shocks going up to 360 jouls. When i wake up i saw the heart doctor and he told me that i have Aterial Febrillation which is a type of arrythmia honestly what i feel sometimes is that my heart beat is stronger and faster sometimes I feel like its going slower... So far i am spearfishing but not being able to hold enough my breath beacuse of my lungs since as was reported by doctor i am getting like 50% of them due to Ex heavy smoking!!! Sometimes while working out at gym or aerobics i am feeling fatigue... but the weard in this thing is that i went to 4 other doctors and they told me that i have nothing at all in my heart!!! it was regular...

It is kinda confusing but everything is fine and going on...

 

[shoutatthesky]

This is all highly irregularrofl

Seriously though - I am wondering whether a lot of what you guys are talking about is down to the subjective nature of your observation techniques. I often measure my waking heartrate with both oximeter and stopwatch and finger on the neck (carotid artery?) The oximeter is far more consistent than the manual method. Manual method may show a >5 beat variation in consecutive readings compared to 1-2 with oximeter.
Some of you have obviously received medical diagnoses but has anyone (eric?) had access to an ecg to see the full picture?

 

[5kgLifter]

This is all highly irregularrofl

Seriously though - I am wondering whether a lot of what you guys are talking about is down to the subjective nature of your observation techniques. I often measure my waking heartrate with both oximeter and stopwatch and finger on the neck (carotid artery?) The oximeter is far more consistent than the manual method. Manual method may show a >5 beat variation in consecutive readings compared to 1-2 with oximeter.
Some of you have obviously received medical diagnoses but has anyone (eric?) had access to an ecg to see the full picture?

Some possibly could be put down to observation techniques; but mine was actually medically informed, and it's apparently been beating that way since birth, so nothing 'irregular' as such in that sense, but I'm glad the thread has opened up the subject for discussion from others that have a different issue, where odd heart beats are brought on by stress etc, and how it has/ or has not affected their diving. Due to my strange, although obviously not that strange, heart beat, I always use a digital pulse monitor, since it's impossible to be accurate using the manual method.

 

[5kgLifter]

It sounds non-serious as discussed. However, a friend & colleague (younger than myself) was fitted with some kind of pace-maker/re-starter device last year after investigation of his irregular heartbeat, after he collapsed coming out of the pool once lunch break. He is a fit guy, a swimming instructor for several decades. Ironically, he is currently only allowed to swim with fins (to avoid the risk of ripping internal wire out of place presumably).

After reading about others with arrythmias (probably spelled that wrong), I feel I agree that it is non-serious and won't be a problem especially since for me it has always been that way, and is not stress related or anything.

It makes you wonder if your friend had had an irregular heart beat for some years before it was detected, or whether it was a relatively new occurrence...and whether that would have made a difference.