Italy banned freediving competitions!

[Jee]

How to eliminate BO's in freediving practice? Maybe we could have a maximum allowed static time of 1 minute, a dynamic distance of 20m and a depth of 3m. That way, I'm sure there won't be any accidents of any kind ever again.

I read articles about the freediving history in Hungary, and they went in this direction. (this whole thing happened before sociallism).
So as the distances grow for dynamic apnea, they thought it is not safe, and limitied the distance to 50m. After that the only thing that counted is the time - the faster the diver, the more the points..
It liked the finswimming now, whre (at pool) only the time matters.
(interestingly there were other disciplines, like jumping in the water and sliding the farest as possible.)

 

[spaghetti]

Trullalla, friendly, about that police thing (it was the sea authority, Capitaneria di Porto) at Andora, let me explain: put that way, it seems we're a Banana Republic or some fascist regime...
Believe it or not, sports regulation are a serious thing in this country (I'm talking about written rules, then humans are still humans), and, to make it short, only organizations recognized by the Olympic Commitee are entitled do run sport events, especially on public areas like the sea, where safety issues may outcome.
In that episode, the Capitaneria stopped Aida's Andora meeting, just because Aida was not legally entitled to do that. If it takes a permission to do a thing in a public area, and you don't have it, this is what happens in a state of right. Just for precision.

 

[Alexx]

How to eliminate BO's in freediving practice?

Easily, when a competitor does BO he should not be allowed to compete for 6-12 months. Just my opinion. Possible damage to the brain after BO can't be detected because it's dispersed on whole brain (seems logical to me, maybe it's wrong). We have to wait for many years to see what are the consequences of blacking out often (whatever "often" means) like some of the competitors do. It seems like we are still "hunting in blurred water"...

Just my 2 lipas (1 lipa=0.01 kuna)

 

[kingohyes]

How much is 0.01 kuna

 

[Alexx]

1 Croatian kuna = 0.137653831 Euro as Google says (hint: "1 kuna in euro")
So, 0.01 kuna = 0.137653831 euro cent

 

[Jee]

About 0.3 Hungarian Forint.

 

[laminar]

Good luck to FIPSAS and their medical review, I say. Because they are going to have a hell of a time making freediving safe. :duh

1. Preventing blackouts: Impossible. Anyone can black themselves out if they hyperventilate for 10 minutes and pack their lungs to the maximum, even before starting the dive or static!
2. Preventing sambas: Impossible. See above.
3. Preventing DCS: Impossible to guarantee that no one will get DCS. After all, everyone's physiology is unique and freediving doesn't have any tables of any worth. (I've read that many DCS incidents happen to Scuba divers well within tables).
4. Preventing Barotrauma: You may as well lobotomize all the competitive freedivers who take the risk getting squeezed or breaking their eardrums for a new pb or national record, because this will continue.

rofl rofl rofl

Let's have FIPSAS review the following sports and make them "safe":
1. Formula 1 car racing: no collisions or crashes allowed, drivers must not ever put their cars in gear.
2. Downhill skiing: no crashes or collisions allowed, skiers must walk down the mountain at a brisk pace only with a full retinue of safety attendants who will carefully scan for icy patches.
3. Boxing: boxers will now shadow box with each other, points awarded for style, footwork and intensity!

I'm all for rules that promote safety and I have spent many hours arguing about AIDA rules with other freedivers and trying to come up with common sense rules like many of us here in this forum. But at some point there needs to be an equilibirum of individual and collective responsibility (freediver vs. organizing body). FIPSAS is moving away from that and AIDA still has some growth to do in that direction.

I think none of us understand the importance of FIPSAS in Italy and the legal weight it carries. However, if it ceases to hold freediving events, something eventually will rise to take it's place. Civilization abhors a vaccuum even more than Nature does.

My 2 cents Canadian.

Pete

 

[ROBERT REYES]

We Should Not Take This As A Joke.

 

[ggarrett]

Let's have FIPSAS review the following sports and make them "safe":

One "sport" that does not get much notice but bears on freediving is sychronized swimming. In talking to lifeguards at various pools in Colorado, they told me that BOs happen "at most every synchonized swimming competition." Does anyone have more insight to add?

Peace,
Glen

 

[JPPLAY]

they told me that BOs happen "at most every synchonized swimming competition." Does anyone have more insight to add?

This is completely untrue. I have been around synchronized swimming most of my life and have never seen a blackout. I know of a few cases of blackout happening to synchronized swimming but they are very rare. The cases in question weren't even when the swimmers were doing synchronized swimming but having fun at the bottom of a dive tank.
On a side note if we got some national level synchronized swimming into the sport we would have some long no fin dynamics. I know of one swimmer that could tie or break the current national no fins dynamic record in their prime. This is with no freediving training.

 

[laminar]

Dear Roberto,

Of Course, This Is Not A Joke. But The Proposition That Freediving Can Be Made Risk-Free Is Ridiculous. Hopefully The FIPSAS Board Knows That And Will Come Up With A Practical Strategy For Improving Safety. That Would Be The Best Result.

No Need To Scold Me Or Other Board Members If That's What You Mean By Writing Your Post In The Way That You Did.

 

[ROBERT REYES]

This is no Joke, I meant that we could all lost our beloved sport.
The problem is not only in the competitions only, but in the freedivers that dive solo.
I meant nothing else, sorry you took it personally.
But if our sport is in serious danger, we should react acordinly, spearfishing has been banned in many places already, at first, most took it like a joke, and did nothing until it was too late.

Freediving with a good buddy, is the only risk free proposition I can see.

 

[laminar]

Hi Roberto,

Thank you for your explanation, I really appreciate it. Would FIPSAS be able to ban freediving and spearfishing across the country.

That really does seem bizarre since to my understanding, freediving is a very popular pastime in Italy.

Best,

Peter

 

[ggarrett]

This is completely untrue. I have been around synchronized swimming most of my life and have never seen a blackout. I know of a few cases of blackout happening to synchronized swimming but they are very rare....

I have no reason to doubt you. And it's probably true in Canada. I just reported what I was told first hand in Colorado where apparently they happen more often. I wonder how the frequencies compare to AIDA competitions.

Peace,
Glen

 

[spaghetti]

Would FIPSAS be able to ban freediving and spearfishing across the country.
That really does seem bizarre since to my understanding, freediving is a very popular pastime in Italy.
Best,
Peter

No doubt, Peter, and your post puzzles me a bit: Fipsas is not a "tertium" subject campaigning against uw sports: Fipsas IS uw sports in this country.
It's a federation of all the local associations of Spearos and FDivers existing nationwide.
---to say, if you have friends in your hometown who love these sports, you open your own local club, and then must affiliate to the national fed (that is Fipsas), as required by the national sport rules. So, in theory, Fipsas is us and WE are Fipsas. But, you know, the top of the board is held by bureaucrats, and all these bureaucratic organizations always have their downsides.

--For some things we love it, for other things we hate it, but like it or not Fipsas is all we've got to improve, defend and give diffusion to our sports here, to make sure that training courses are run by qualified instructors, that safety routines are respected, et cetera, et cetera.

---This is why many guys here are confident that this suspension of Fd comps will end up in wine and bread: if they ban our sports, Fipsas itself will disappear, and all the bureaucrats who lead it will loose their jobs immediately...

 

[trullalla]

Trullalla, friendly, about that police thing (it was the sea authority, Capitaneria di Porto) at Andora, let me explain: put that way, it seems we're a Banana Republic or some fascist regime...
Believe it or not, sports regulation are a serious thing in this country (I'm talking about written rules, then humans are still humans), and, to make it short, only organizations recognized by the Olympic Commitee are entitled do run sport events, especially on public areas like the sea, where safety issues may outcome.
In that episode, the Capitaneria stopped Aida's Andora meeting, just because Aida was not legally entitled to do that. If it takes a permission to do a thing in a public area, and you don't have it, this is what happens in a state of right. Just for precision.

spaghetti, friendly, i'm italian too, and i know what the capitaneria di porto is, but in an international forum i think it's much more clear to call it police so that everybody understand, and anyways it's the same thing. in any case the comp in andora was NOT an aida event.
i also know about all these legal issues about aida and other non official sport organizations, as i said in my previous post; the thing is that aida is entitled to organize comps in the rest of the world and italy is the only exception. in some other countries, cmas work together with aida, and you can even find aida comps on the official cmas calendar...

cheers
linda

 

[spaghetti]

spaghetti, friendly, i'm italian too, and i know what the capitaneria di porto is, but in an international forum i think it's much more clear to call it police so that everybody understand, and anyways it's the same thing. in any case the comp in andora was NOT an aida event.
i also know about all these legal issues about aida and other non official sport organizations, as i said in my previous post; the thing is that aida is entitled to organize comps in the rest of the world and italy is the only exception. in some other countries, cmas work together with aida, and you can even find aida comps on the official cmas calendar...

cheers
linda

Benissimo, you're italian so you know better than me all the casino of the past years between Fipsas and Aida.
How do you think it will end with this suspension thing? (In an international forum, I think it's much more clear to call it bread and wine, but what I have in my mind is "tarallucci e vino"). Your idea?
PS: my post wasn't anything against you: non volevo che la gente pensasse che in Italia arriva la polizia a disperdere la folla tipo Cile anni '70...ma forse mi sono spiegato male, scusami.

 

[trullalla]

no problem spaghetti, i don't have anything against you either, but i think fipsas people are having a very silly behaviour, and even though i don't live in italy anymore and i'm not affected by their decisions (from a practical point of view), i still get upset when i see these things happening.

what i think it's going to happen? visit apneamagazine forum, and you'll see they even banned (but it's not official yet) TRAINING. which means athletes cannot show up in their swimming pools anymore and train dynamic and static with their buddies. now i think this is not the tarallucci e vino happy end....
to me it looks like they're giving up their athletes before their athletes give them up. they are aware that more and more freedivers want to compete in cw, and with freedivers of other nationalities, and some of them made the step already, and a lot more are going to follow.
or maybe they just don't want to have freediving as a sport discipline anymore, because of costs, and risks, and insurance and whatever, and in a way it's understandable, and it's probably the best solution for everybody.

cheers,
linda

 

[laminar]

Hi spaghetti,

Thanks for the explanation. It's hard for some of us in other countries where freediving is a fringe support that has no government recognition and probably never will to grasp the relationship between FIPSAS, the law, cllubs and individual divers in Italy.

It does seem very odd that an organization formed to regulate and hopefully develop a sport would not follow in some way the needs of its constituents, the freedivers themselves. Has there been a serious incident or death that has precipitated this sudden action or is it just a case of bureaucrats freaking out because they can't control every little detail?

It's a shame in a way, since it seems likely (correct me if I'm wrong) that most Italian freedivers have respect for FIPSAS' authority. So if FIPSAS informed everyone that to train in constant weight you needed to have X safety arrangements and Y protocols, it would be more likely to be taken seriously than in other countries.

Is this in the regular Italian news? Or is the discuss of this development limited to freediving clubs and forums?

Pete

 

[spaghetti]

Laminar: fortunately, news are still all in the family. But incidents happen every week, both in competition and training, nobody's dead but rumors are rising.
Why all this? In the last years there's been a "boom" of hundreds of FD "Schools" in every italian big or small town, some are serious, some are not. The bad "schools" provide poor surveillance during training and lessons (many BO's to guys performing statics at the bottom of the pool while nodbody was watching them), and bad schools also push the guys to a competitive spirit while they still lack the proper knowledge of apnea: this way incidents are behind the corner. The "bureaucrats" just don't want to take responsibility for casualties: this is why they suspended the game and let doctors check up the safety protocols. I say this both from my impressions, and from news and comments reported recently.
---Three years ago I had the idea to refresh my "basics" and inscribed myself to a basic FD course in a small local club: seemed a good idea. Well, the first four lessons where about how to hyperventilate and how to pack!!!. Bye bye ladies and gentlemen, I said, good night and good luck...