Friday, December 14, 2018
  • Welcome to the DeeperBlue.com Forums, the largest online community dedicated to Freediving, Scuba Diving and Spearfishing. To gain full access to the DeeperBlue.com Forums you must register for a free account. As a registered member you will be able to:

    • Join over 40,000+ fellow diving enthusiasts from around the world on this forum
    • Participate in and browse from over 496,000+ posts.
    • Communicate privately with other divers from around the world.
    • Post your own photos or view from 7,300+ user submitted images.
    • All this and much more...

    You can gain access to all this absolutely free when you register for an account, so sign up today!

"Katran" double barrel pneumatic speargun

popgun pete

Well-Known Member
Jul 30, 2008
2,424
432
123
Australia
#1
Although not a particularly polished presentation you can see a double barrel "Katran" pneumatic speargun being discussed and demonstrated here in a Ukraine (I assume) dive shop.


The gun cannot be too highly pressurized given the way in which it is loaded against the dive shop floor and seemingly fired a couple of times into that same floor!!

A danger inherent in muzzle loaded guns of a double barrel configuration is you face an already cocked to shoot spear when you start to press the second shaft into the gun. Picasso have a patent on a double spear pneumatic speargun, but I have never seen one and do not know if they were ever produced in any numbers. Possibly it was a pre-emptive patent merely designed to register the idea without any intention of manufacturing it. Even if there is some type of lockout on the gun intended to stop you from being accidentally shot my view is that such guns are inherently dangerous unless they can be loaded from the rear and that is why there have been a few double shot band guns offered over the years.
katran double barrel.jpg
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
popgun pete

popgun pete

Well-Known Member
Jul 30, 2008
2,424
432
123
Australia
#2
"Katran" appears to be a supplier/shop so I am not sure who made that double barrel pneumatic speargun.
https://katrangun.com.ua/podvodnaya-ohota/podvodnye-ruzhya-pnevmaticheskie/
I looked through 13 pages of spearguns showing all types of guns including Zelinka models using that moving inner barrel system, but no sign of the double barrel speargun. Some guns of interest are:-
https://katrangun.com.ua/podvodnaya-ohota-ruzhya-pelengas-varvar-70-s-regulyatorom-sm
https://katrangun.com.ua/samoe-dorogoe-podvodnoe-ruzhe
https://katrangun.com.ua/samoe-dorogoe-podvodnoe-ruzhe-zelinka-hlebnikova-perun-600-m
https://katrangun.com.ua/evgenij-korolevskij-zelinka-titan-600-mm
 
Last edited:
Jun 3, 2014
46
6
23
54
#3
Personally acquainted with the author of the Double-Barreled Gun Yuri Gorislavts! All His guns are of high quality workmanship!
 
OP
OP
popgun pete

popgun pete

Well-Known Member
Jul 30, 2008
2,424
432
123
Australia
#6
Thanks, so it is this one for the double gun
Ружье для подводной охоты "Двухстволка" or Shotgun for underwater hunting "Double Barrel"
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
popgun pete

popgun pete

Well-Known Member
Jul 30, 2008
2,424
432
123
Australia
#7
Is there a web page or link where we can see the internal layout of this “double” gun and particularly how the lock-out device works for the cocked barrel on the gun. As mentioned earlier double barrel, muzzle loaded guns have a potential hazard when loading the second barrel as if the already cocked barrel discharges then the operator may be shot, particularly with a long barrel gun as the gun will be loaded off the diver’s foot. The only relatively safe double barrel gun was a double hydropneumatic where the first shaft was loaded in the usual way and the second shaft was pushed in with no effort and then that barrel charged with a lever operated hydropump working from the rear end of the gun. Such a gun is very heavy as hydropneumatic guns do not float being low water displacement and high density.
 
OP
OP
popgun pete

popgun pete

Well-Known Member
Jul 30, 2008
2,424
432
123
Australia
#9
I can guess how it works as the twisting lever or screw action device in the rear of the gun tells me that it is a releasing valve gun and probably a Zelinka system. If you temporarily imprison the releasing valve in a Zelinka type gun then there is no possibility of a shot, unless the separate inlet valve "O" ring in the piston breaks and air can then flow in the reverse direction from the gun reservoir or tank back into the inner barrel. The same situation occurs in the "Alpha C1", if you screw the rear butt right up then the gun cannot shoot (safe mode). For a double spear, double barrel gun the second barrel could be another releasing valve system or a rocker type sear lever, probably the latter to keep the weight down. Even so a double gun will always have that risk of a spear ready to shoot and if the gun is torn from your hands by a powerful fish after the first shot then there is an armed gun being towed around on the end of the shooting line which could be very dangerous. Once I contemplated a double pneumatic speargun with a collet built into the muzzle that screwed down onto the second shaft which had a small diameter raised step to ensure that the shaft was properly caught, however the collet would be slow to undo and a second shot would be delayed.
 
Jun 3, 2014
46
6
23
54
#10
This is not Zelinka! This is a mechanical safety hook! The second harpoon is charged in the fuse mode for the first charged harpoon!
 
OP
OP
popgun pete

popgun pete

Well-Known Member
Jul 30, 2008
2,424
432
123
Australia
#11
What type of trigger system is used as you must know one way or another? What does the safety hook hold onto, the trigger mechanism's sear or the spear itself?
 
OP
OP
popgun pete

popgun pete

Well-Known Member
Jul 30, 2008
2,424
432
123
Australia
#15
Message already sent.

Захар предложил мне написать вам о вашей очень интересной двойной
пневматической арбалет. Мне интересно, если вы могли бы предоставить
некоторую информацию о внутренней планировки и функционирования вашего
подводного оружия. Мы смотрели видео, но как не-русский ораторов мы не
можем понять все, что сказано, однако некоторые аспекты очевидны из
изображений.

Дискуссия на форуме "глубокий синий "

Zahar has suggested that I write to you concerning your very
interesting double pneumatic speargun. I am wondering if you could
supply some information concerning the internal layout and the
operation of your underwater weapon. We have watched the video but as
non-Russian speakers we cannot understand all that is said, however
certain aspects are obvious from the images.

Discussion on forum "Deeper Blue"
 
Likes: Zahar
OP
OP
popgun pete

popgun pete

Well-Known Member
Jul 30, 2008
2,424
432
123
Australia
#17
And here are the rest of them. https://www.akvalang.com/forum/topic/11841-podvodnye-dvustvolki/
DOUBLE 7.jpg

DOUBLE 8.jpg

DOUBLE 9.jpg

At the rear of the gun we can see the lever that locks out one barrel from shooting and two line release pins. These pins withdraw into the gun body with the shot allowing the line wraps to pull away. Standard of construction is absolutely first class and the gun has a very professional and pleasing appearance.
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
popgun pete

popgun pete

Well-Known Member
Jul 30, 2008
2,424
432
123
Australia
#18
I wonder if this Yuri Gorislavts double inner barrel gun floats after both shots have been taken. The longer a pneumatic gun is then the more chance of being a floater, hence even if this gun sunk at its present length more tank volume would improve buoyancy prospects. The main contributor of weight are the muzzle components, here there are two, but lighter alloys (e.g. magnesium) or maybe even carbon fiber could be used.to eliminate weight. Magnesium is a very reactive metal, however it has been used in aircraft and automobiles. The other possibility is a plastic muzzle, there is a precedent for this in the South American (Brazil) “Mako-Sub” gun which used a plastic muzzle and a plastic piston with a short metal shank and although it had no shock absorber the hydraulic type could have been implemented.
Mako Sub speargun plastic muzzle.jpg


For a short time Mares used a molded plastic muzzle on their “Sten” which had three muzzle relief ports instead of the usual four.
Sten plastic muzzle.jpg

Sten plastic muzzle piece.jpg

Photos are taken from the following threads.
https://forums.deeperblue.com/threads/mako-sub-pneumatic-speargun.80345/
https://forums.deeperblue.com/threa...for-older-mares-pneumatics.91719/#post-855283

Another material is zirconia ceramic, but is very difficult to work. There are yttria reinforced forms which are very resistant to impacts and cracking and which are very light. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yttria-stabilized_zirconia
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
popgun pete

popgun pete

Well-Known Member
Jul 30, 2008
2,424
432
123
Australia
#19
Yuri sent me this message, he lives in Ukraine. The original is in Russian, so allowances have to make for the auto-translation, although I have made some minor alterations.

"The gun works on this principle: when the switch is in the one-position, the upper barrel (can be loaded) at the same time the lower barrel (piston) is blocked by a separate element which excludes the shot from the lower barrel. When the switch is rotated to position two, only then can the lower barrel shoot or can be produced when required a shot simultaneously from both barrels".

Yuri indicated that he would send a photo of the internal parts of the mechanism.

I might add that the detail finish of his double barrel speargun is superb, the quality is evident in the photos right down to the muzzle embellishments and the shape and finish of the control lever fitted on the sculpted rear bulkhead. The design is outstanding in terms of attention to the smallest detail.
 
Last edited:
Likes: Zahar