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Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
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New Member
May 10, 2002
Hey everyone,
I've been doing some reading on dynamic's, and I've read that you should do a form of breaststroke kick. Here is the problem: I can't do breaststroke kick due to a problem with me knee (its a really loose joint and has a tendency to slip in and out when I do that particular stroke: oww :waterwork ) So could somebody please help me out with developing a new stroke that I could use? I know it is hard over email, but any help would...ah...help :D .

I thought with fins you just use the forward freestyle kick.

That breaststroke style kick is for no fins dynamics I believe...using bi-fins try a slow flutter kick and pay attention to your profile. Try adjustments and if you are paying attention you should feel when there is less drag, others should be able to help better...
Knee guard

Have you tried a firm supportive elastic knee guard ?
I would use that in conjunction with a poor form of kicking as seen on many untrained swimmers. The frog kick is performed with one leg only and the other (gammy )leg does a straight flutter. You have seen it.

Then there is superglue and finally no legs dynamic... :)

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The Hopkins Technique

You should use the Seth Hopkins technique, which propels you better anyway. However, it takes forever to learn (and most people just give up anyway). It is basically a dolphin undulation with the hips & legs (no fins), while sculling with the arms. But, it is way more complicated than that!

Eric Fattah
BC, Canada
When is laminar-pete going to give us a video of his technique?

Get on with it man!

Eric - can you remember the URL of Seth's video? Might help.

Topi example of great swimming technique

This is a fantastic film, well worth the time it takes to
download if you are keen to improve your unassisted
swimming technique for dynamic apnea.

Topi Lintunkangas "Unassisted Constant Ballast -60m" (Windows Media 13.7 Mb)
Thanks Mike. I don't have time now to look at it - but I will definately try it later.
I really love your signature - did you invent it or get it from somewhere else?
kicking technique for no-fins dynamic

I have a similar knee problem- a lax ACL that causes my knee to wobble unhealthily when doing a "true" frog kick. So I use a scissors kick. This is the kick used in the sidestroke. I alternate which leg goes forward on successive kicks to maintain symmetry. Its a little awkward at first, because it requires a slight twist in the hips and low back. But it feels natural after you get used to it. The scissors kick is, I believe, a more powerful kick than a true frog kick, and loads the knee joint in a plane that is more friendly to an unstable knee.
I am curious to know if this works for you - let me know.
Yes - so stoked, tried it this afternoon and, it worked! That is a hard stroke to get used to but once you've got it it is great. Thanks so much. I did know that stroke before, I used to use it when swimming in the surf when I got tired, so yeah it was good. Quite powerful too.
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D
scissor kick

when you do the scissor kick for dynamic are you basically swimming on your side? don't quite get it from your message and as another one with a gammy knee it might be useful.
Yep pretty much.
I think Driftwood kinda does it on his front but with his legs on the side or something....do you driftwood?
I find it just as easy to do it on your side - takes a bit of practice not to run into the pool floor :duh :blackeye :crutch but after that it is a great stroke to use.
scissor kick technique

I do the stroke with my upper body flat, that is, in the same orientation as a conventional breast stroke. With my hips and low back I give a quarter twist. The twist orients the hips to move the legs in plane which is more or less parallel to the water surface, which keeps legs submerged for the full range of the kick.

This technique works easier with the hips well below the surface. The deeper you are, the less hip-twist you need. The only purpose of the twist is to keep the rear-moving leg underwater. Now that I'm used to the technique I use it for surface breast-stroking also, but I need to be attentive to technique to keep my rear leg from breaking the surface. I change which way I twist depending on which leg I'm moving forward for the kick. As I mentioned earlier, I alternate which leg I move forward to maintain symmetry in muscle use. It took a while to get used to alternating the twist, and kick, on every other stroke. When I first started I alternated the twist only on every other lap. One side felt way more natural and powerful than the other, which I would guess is fairly typical.

If you are having trouble getting used to it, I suggest trying it out in the deep end of the pool with your body a few feet underwater. If you pretend you are in an underwater speed race, I'll bet you will naturally gravitate to this kick. I watched a video of a free immersion (no fins CW) record setter and he used this kick, not a frog kick.
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