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Laser Eye Surgery

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
Erik

Erik

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2001
4,731
753
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Originally posted by samdive
not to mention sick of scrabbling around every morning trying to work out who I've woken up with (JOKE)

anyone know?
Sam:hmm

Sam, Sam......you're suppoosed to drink enough the night before that you don't care who you wake up with! Obviously you need to "train" a little harder ;)
(JOKE)
Cheers,
Erik Y.
 
G

gerard

New Member
Oct 3, 2002
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Thanks Eric

But what happens after you successfully finish the program? I mean you recover your old vision (in my case it started when I was 12 years old), and you stop doing the exercises; wouldn't your vision deteriorate rapidly afterwards?

I am a bit skeptic about the method, it sounds to be good to be true for people like me, who suddenly developed the problem in their adolescence, when computers where only used by NASA (back in 1976:D ).

Thanks again for the info.

Regards, gerard.
 
D

Dolphin Girl

New Member
Nov 20, 2002
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Hi all

Funny that I should log on and find this as a topic. I went on Friday 7th for an appointment with an opthalmologist to find out about laser surgery. My first question to him when he told me that I was suitable, was "How soon can I dive again ???" His response was in 2 weeks.
This used to be much longer and there were still possible risks of increased intraoccular pressure at deep depths due to the fact that a flap was cut in order for them to laser your eyes. However there is a new technique now where they use an epithelial scrubber (feels like a toothbrush) that is concave to basically brush off the epithelial layer of cells in order for them to laser. Therefore, you only need 2 weeks for this epithelial layer to rejuvenate (same as a scab on a wound) and then back into the water with no long term complications.

So I am definatley going, but have to wait until our Nationals are over, else it means 2 weeks out of the water which means 2 weeks of no training.

Hope this info has helped.

See ya all in the water !!!!!!
 
Z

zipy

New Member
Nov 19, 2002
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It si interesting how much things have progresed.
When i was two years old i had a surgery on my left eye and after that i wore glasses for 13 years.
Now you can have a surgery and your vision inproves in a month.
Even with non surgery methodes vision can be inproved in a few years!!! (still beter than 13 years of agony) :(

Zipy
 
E

efattah

Well-Known Member
Mar 2, 2001
3,294
489
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Gerard,

Computers are not the only cause of vision problems. People started developing myopia as soon as books were invented hundreds of years ago.

When you finish the NVI program and restore your vision, your vision is EXTREMELY ELASTIC. In other words, if you put on some old glasses, within seconds your eyes will adjust to them. Once you take them off, your vision is blurry, but it only takes a few minutes of exercises to 'unstretch' your eyes back to normal. However, I have been told by people who have succeeded that if you do a small maintenance program for 1 year, then your eyes become permanently better (not elastic), but, as always, vision problems can slowly recur if you do the same tasks without doing the prevention exercises.

It isn't too good to be true, because it takes an enormous amount of time. If the natural cure took 1 week, then it would be too good to be true. How many people are willing to devote an hour a day for 2 years? Plus another 15 minutes maintenance every day for another year. It took years for your eyes to get bad, so it will takes months or years to make your eyes better. This is the speed at which adaptations take place.

Eric Fattah
BC, Canada
 
pkotik

pkotik

FreeDiving Editor
Nov 28, 2001
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THE MYTH OF MYOPIA

Eric, do you recall a privately published book titled "The Myth of Myopia" ? If so, do you recall the name of the author ?
 
Bill

Bill

Baron of Breathold
Oct 17, 2001
1,805
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far sighted

Aloha Eric
I realise that you will not be able to speak from experience but, do you have any comments about this thread when it comes to the other side of the coin? Is far-sightedness covered in the book you mentioned?
Bill
 
E

efattah

Well-Known Member
Mar 2, 2001
3,294
489
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Searching on amazon for 'myopia myth' reveals this hit:
The Myopia Myth: The Truth About Nearsightedness and How to Prevent It -- Donald S. Rehm; Paperback (in print)

Farsightedness is also covered by all the theories & exercises I mentioned, however the defect is different. Instead of the oblique muscles being chronically tense (stretching the eyeball & making it longer), all four rectii muscles are tense, pulling the eyeball and making it shorter.

Further, the lens hardens as you age, which makes accomodation difficult. However, it is possible to focus the eye (to a lesser degree) solely by using the extrinsic muscles. This is evidenced by people who have had their lens removed, and replaced with a rigid, artificial lens. Such people (when properly trained) can still focus through a range of 4 or 5 diopters, despite having a lens which is completely inflexible.

This means that 'old-age' sight (i.e. being unable to focus close) can be at least partially prevented (or partially reversed) by both keeping a strong ciliary muscle (to flex the inflexible lens), and by keeping strong oblique & rectii muscles (to change the shape of the eye to also focus).

Severe farsightedness, unrelated to 'old-age sight', is cured by the same method I explained above, except in reverse; you wear lenses such that you can see the book barely in focus, except that you move the book closer and closer and autofocus gradually, etc...


Eric Fattah
BC, Canada
 
pkotik

pkotik

FreeDiving Editor
Nov 28, 2001
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MYTH oF MYOPIA

Amazing. That's it. This guy printed the book up himself, then ran a full page ad in the New York Times ( c. 1986) . I immediately ordered a copy. I called him a few weeks later to question him on a couple of points. He answered the phone, and I immediately apoligized for taking up his time, saying I was certain he must be overwhelmed with inquiries and orders since running the ad in the Times.

He told me then that I was the only person who had ordered the book or contacted him in any way.
 
G

gerard

New Member
Oct 3, 2002
230
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Eric, willpower and dedication is not my problem

Is the fear of ending up being "blind" again:waterwork?


Eric, if I start tomorrow (which I will after purchasing Quaterback's book), how many pairs of glasses and contact lenses for diving will I need to buy?

I guess there is a considerable investment involved in NVI too. I am scared of the bill!!


Thanks, gerard.
 
rigdvr

rigdvr

Not Available in Stores
May 28, 2002
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Originally posted by efattah
[B It is simply a question of how badly you want it. Eating carrots has no effect -- this takes work. Of course, the lazy people just opt for surgery.It reminds me of freedivers. The lazy freediver could just have surgery on his chest to increase his lung volume. Some freedivers, at the first sign of equalizing difficulties, have surgery on their ears, without spending the time to first try learning new techniques.Eric Fattah
BC, Canada [/B]

Eric, I know you are well respected and an amazing athlete but this comment really bothered me. Guess you have a garden out back and grow your own vegetables b/c only lazy people would go to the grocery or you might weave your own fabrics to make clothing for yourself b/c it can be done if you want to badly enough. Ease up on the names...:cool:
 
E

efattah

Well-Known Member
Mar 2, 2001
3,294
489
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I apologize if this comment offended some people, but in the end the same story applies in all situations where surgery is optional.

For example, the latest trend for women is 'buttocks implants.' The idea is that it takes too much effort to get in shape, so women can simply have surgery on their rear end to make it look nice. They could reach the same effect after months of training naturally, if they had the desire to.

For vision it is the same. For most people, it takes too much effort to fix their vision, so they opt for the fast solution, surgery.

But, in both cases (buttocks implants and vision surgery), the natural (effort intensive) method results in a superior solution in many ways.

In sports, anyone who looks for the 'shortcut' (i.e. performance enhancing drugs), is penalized heavily.


Eric Fattah
BC, Canada
 
Shadowkiller

Shadowkiller

Digital Hunter
Jul 30, 2002
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Eric,
You would have to agree however that most doctors recommend surgery rather than natural methods?

Most people are not in a position to make informed decisions about their health, due in main to a lack of medical training, so they put their trust in doctors.
 
T

TMcKee

New Member
Aug 9, 2002
128
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Damnit! Why can't I be lazy? Why should I have to work out to get a better backside??? I want to eat cheetos, doritos, chili fries, nachos, hot dogs, potted meat, and do every drug I can get my hands on, and smoke 4 packs of cigs a day, and just go to get a little surgery. BAM! I look fabulous again! Then go do some HGH....maybe some steroids and then outperform everyone!


rofl

You're right shadow, an example would be that I have sinus problems. I can clear my ears easily but we get all these weather changes here in Louisiana and my sinuses go nuts and I WILL get an ear infection which makes me dizzy until I get some antibiotics. One doctor I went to says, "sinus surgery" (where they snake a tube up your nose and clear your sinuses) and another doctor I went to says, "lets try to treat it before we opt for surgery".

Its like asking an exercise physiologist if calf implants are recommended. Most folks can't make an informed decision. Its sad, but true.:head
 
Jon

Jon

Dairyland diver
Supporter
Apr 7, 2001
4,080
473
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Eric,


When I first heard about this a few years ago I asked some eye doctors about it and they told me that it had limited effect, 1-2 diopeters, for limited time frames.

Your results seem to mirror what these docotors said. You've had 1.5 diopoter change in vision, even though yours eyes still have a long way to go. It also sounds like your vision might have relapsed slightly because you haven't kept up with it.

I was very nervous about the whole surgery and passed on the Rk and PRK surgeries that others had recommended to me, in the past, because I was scared and only have one set of eyes!

In the end, I am glad that I waited. There may be better alternatives in the future, but LASIK did what I wanted it to now.

Two friends of mine are commercial airline pilots, who also dive quite a bit, and they have had good luck with the surgery. It is the only one, that I know of, that is allowed by the FAA.

The same day that I had mine done, there were two other people having the same surgery who were both olympic atheles. I would hardly call them lazy or uncommitted to improving their performance on their own.

This program sounds interesting for someone with slight vision problems, like -1 to -1.5, but not for those of us with more serious imparements. Actually, that is exactly what the eye doc's told me. that this program was good for mild cases of myopia and not for the higher level that I had.

Just an observation.

Jon
 
samdive

samdive

Mermaid, Musician and Marketer
Nov 12, 2002
3,221
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no dive time post laser op

Just thought I would let you know that the official answer on this from DAN (divers alert network) was that you should not dive for between 2-4 weeks post laser eye surgery with LASIK methods recovering more quickly than the others.
Just trying to decide if I dare take that long out of the water before the Cyprus Competition!

Sam
 
Jon

Jon

Dairyland diver
Supporter
Apr 7, 2001
4,080
473
188
56
When I had it done, 4 years ago, DAN recommended 4-6 weeks out of the water.
It was cold outside when I had it done so I stayed out for a full two months.
This was probably longer than I needed to, but I was pretty paranoid about the whole thing to start with.
I had no problems once I started back diving.
I have friends who were back in the water teaching after about two weeks.


Jon
 
E

efattah

Well-Known Member
Mar 2, 2001
3,294
489
173
What Jon's doctor is describing is a completely different method of vision improvement.

Using this method, the subject is forced to wear special hard contact lenses whose purpose is to 'flatten' the cornea. After wearing them for a few days, the cornea gets slightly flattened, but the cornea can only be deformed a little bit, so the maximum improvement this method can give is about -1.5D, just like Jon's doctor said. The worst part is that as soon as you take off the hard contacts, the cornea starts to go back to normal, and in a few days, the effect disappears. This method is not addressing the problem (i.e. the extrinsic eye muscles). It is simply trying to fix the symptoms, by changing the cornea, much like surgery changes the cornea, without the risks or permanent effect of surgery. This method will not improve the eye's ability to 'point' at what it sees, it will not improve the saccadic movements or depth perception, and it will not improve corrected acuity (i.e. vision with contacts or glasses on). And, since it only gives such a minor, temporary improvement, it isn't useful for most of us. In fact, you don't even need these special hard contact lenses to experience this effect. All you need to do is press the butt of your palms against your closed eyes (while looking straight ahead), for about 30 minutes per day. Sure enough your cornea will flatten, and your vision might improve slightly, until you stop the exercise. I don't recommend doing this because pressing against your eyes might not be good. This exercise should not be confused with a relaxation exercise called 'palming' where the palms do not press against the eyes.

For those still skeptical about the possibility of poor vision being corrected naturally, I recommend contacting someone who has actually experienced enormous improvement. The fastest & greatest improvement that has been accurately recorded is the case of Janet Goodrich, who took a 2-month NVI course and improved from 20/800 (about -8) to 20/60 (about -0.75). She was so amazed that she wrote a book and began teaching NVI. You can find her book on amazon and you might be able to contact her through the publisher. Skeptics, of course, will just say that she's a liar, and her NVI instructor who recorded her improvement, and all the other student witnesses could also be liars!

You might also want to chat with people on the net who have experienced dramatic improvements (you can find them on newsgroups and e-mail lists). One unfortunate point is that most of the people who have experienced complete and permanent improvement no longer frequent the lists (why bother at that point), but some good-hearted people, who have fixed their vision, remain on the groups or e-mail lists to help others along.


Eric Fattah
BC, Canada
 
BatRay

BatRay

Well-Known Member
Nov 1, 2002
4,865
621
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So once you opt for a surgical eye treatment, you can't do anything for your eye muscles?
 
E

efattah

Well-Known Member
Mar 2, 2001
3,294
489
173
Once you have surgery, you can still improve your extrinsic muscles, which will improve your depth perception & saccadic movements, and even bring your acuity to 20/10 or better, BUT, if you coax your extrinsic muscles to relax fully, then your vision will become blurry, because your eye will return to its original shape, and yet now the cornea has been altered to compensate for the distorted shape.

Further, for people who have frequent headaches, sometimes the headaches are caused by eye strain, and so these headaches can be minimized.

If you read NVI books, you'll learn that the eyes, neck and shoulder muscles and linked -- tension in the neck and shoulders translates into tension in the eyes (and vision problems). In order to fully restore your vision, you must relieve the chronic tension in your neck and shoulders (tennis is a good way, as is massaging), but for some people, relieving the chronic neck & shoulder tension can take months. Ask someone to give you a neck/shoulder massage; if they find you are tense (or find 'knots') then you have tension which could lead to headaches, and this tension could take some time to relieve.



Eric Fattah
BC, Canada
 
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