• Welcome to the DeeperBlue.com Forums, the largest online community dedicated to Freediving, Scuba Diving and Spearfishing. To gain full access to the DeeperBlue.com Forums you must register for a free account. As a registered member you will be able to:

    • Join over 44,280+ fellow diving enthusiasts from around the world on this forum
    • Participate in and browse from over 516,210+ posts.
    • Communicate privately with other divers from around the world.
    • Post your own photos or view from 7,441+ user submitted images.
    • All this and much more...

    You can gain access to all this absolutely free when you register for an account, so sign up today!

Laser Pointer - ?

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
I have come to spearing from fishing and if getting a fish in the bag was the sole aim I certainly wouldn't use my rods! I get far far more bass spearing.

I agree that its not about just getting the fish, I love the whole stalking aspect of it, but if a laser would help acheive a successful conclusion to that then I'm all for that. After all its not, to rip off a previous statement, a fire and forget system, you'd still need to take into account the holdover/under required for the range and the fishes movement and many other factors. The laser may even spook the fish! I'm not arguing that lasers themselves would even work, but what I do believe is that you shouldn't discount these things just because they're new and not what people are used to. If you don't want to use them then don't, but that's no reason to say that other people shouldn't.

And if its about the hunt not the kill then you could just take a camera....;)
 
Ah well.. I can see that we are not on the same page here. Try using a laser and then tell us all the good points.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Magpie
The thing with laser sights is that they are suggested over and over again, mainly by novices or people with limited experience of different conditions. It is not that they would be unsporting, just the opposite in fact, as they would prevent spearos from developing the fast, instinct shooting techniques that are the most efficient way to shoot a speargun
cheers
dave
www.spearo.co.uk
 
Magpie said:
Lend me £300 and I'll do just that mate :D

Who says they cost £300? - would these [ame="http://cgi.ebay.com/Green-Laser-Pointer-5mw-Daylight-On-Off-Switch-GL1GSP11_W0QQitemZ120010385828QQihZ002QQcategoryZ94882QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem"]http://cgi.ebay.com/Green-Laser-Pointer-5mw-Daylight-On-Off-Switch-GL1GSP11_W0QQitemZ120010385828QQihZ002QQcategoryZ94882QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem[/ame] be any good?

Possibly dangerous though in the hands of the foolish :hmm

As commented before, the thrill is 90% in the hunt and release of the trigger, rather than the ability to shoot at long range. Surely if a laser pointer attracts a fish then its profile would be smaller as it turns to face the light? A broadside shot would be better (with my aim anyway!)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Almostafish
Spaniard said:
One of the main attractions of spearfishing for me has always been the 'neanderthal' element of the hunting. We immerse ourselves in a very alien environment and use fairly primitive (compared to some of the high powered rifles/scopes for land-based hunters) equipment to capture our prey. I've always shot instinctively, like a cowboy shooting a revolver, and have never aimed down the barrel. Personally spearfishing would lose much of its allure if I shot fish using a laser as a guide (I won't even use them on my air pistol/ air rifle).

Ditto. 99% of my shots are, more or less, snap-shots. Very rarely do I get a fish that will sit there and let me line up the shot...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Almostafish
English is not my native language but I hope you will be able to understand me well.

I’m hunting for more than 20 years. I don’t have a problem to get a fish. Most of fishes I’ve killed I shoot in the head or close to. But I can tell you one story that changed my spearfishing mentality.

This happened about 10 years ago. I use to live in different country and was able to hunt in the fresh water. One sunny day I was snorkeling slowly above the grass searching for pike (easy prey). Suddenly large catfish - about 2m long (this type of fish - http://apox.ru/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=93&fullsize=1 it’s not me on the picture) popped-up from the grass straight in front of my face. It hunted down something and it was busy swallowing it’s prey. It was so close to me – not more than 1m! My right arm with powerful and heavy enough pneumatic gun was above my body and I didn’t see where exactly my gun was pointed. But same time I knew exactly that if I shoot – I’m not going to miss. I had no chance to move my hand to point gun in the best place to shoot fish properly – fish will notice movement and will disappear next second. I had just a few seconds to make a decision and as that time I followed rule " If you miss the fish you miss the fish " my finger instinctively pulled trigger. I saw how spear went through the large fish body, but! – it went through it’s belly! Catfish is very strong fish, but it has a weak belly. Fish pulled me like a motorboat and I tried to follow it as fast as I could. But then fish started to spin around the grass and one moment I stopped to fill it. But fish still was fighting in the deep because huge turbulences were coming from the grass. Then next moment silence just appeared… When I recovered my spear from the grass I found a sport’s bag size fish stomach left on it.

I love and respect catfish more that any other fish because it’s a … real titanic. It’s clever and very strong fish, very respectable prey for hunter. And that time I felt absolutely destroyed not because I missed that fish – because I’ve killed it useless. I couldn’t hunt for few weeks after.

Since – if I’m not sure that I can kill fish shooting it properly – I don’t pull the trigger. Last weekend I was hunting in the sea and exactly same situation happened again – large mullet popped-up in front of my face from the grass. My hand was tired and I held the gun above my body but still I knew if I shoot - spear is going to match the target. I didn’t pull the trigger, I don’t want to spoil useless any fish any more. I did it enough, and still doing it from time to time – one of disadvantages and disappointments of the hunting.

Now, if for example that time when I meet catfish or mullet I had laser installed and calibrated on my gun and I could see where-to my gun pointed – tiny wrist’s motion will be enough to shoot that fish properly exactly in the head.

I’ve ordered green laser pointer and I’ll try to complete it’s testing soon. No matter what other people say about this.

 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Magpie
I had no chance to move my hand to point gun in the best place to shoot fish properly – fish will notice movement and will disappear next second.


Lasers simply dont work in water like they do on land. Even at 1m I would bet money on you having to look very closely ( 5-10 seconds ) to find the dot and then as you say you were in no position to move at all so again I dont see the point.

I dont know about every body else who has used laser sights ( in UK waters ) but for me they were cr*p. I put lots of work and cash into it and yes it was a few years ago but the basics are this..

The dot is very hard to see sub surface.
You end up looking down the gun to find the dot.
Any sedement or particles in the water absorb the energy
Spears dont fly that straight.

I dont really see how people can say what a great tool they are if they have never used them.. They are not some huge aid to humane Fish despachment and the only way your going to find this out is to buy one, strap it to your gun and take it from there.

Good luck.:)
 
To say that laser pointers don't work underwater is over-generalizing.

Normal laser pointers are limited to class IIIA devices, which is a controlled limitation based on radiation damage to the human eye (IN AIR).

Underwater, since the water absorbs energy, you could build a FAR stronger laser, but this same laser would be very dangerous on land (to your eyes, or things you point it at). So there would be a definite safety concern.

Technologically speaking, it is not impossible to build an underwater laser so strong that it would vaporize the water and burn holes through the fish! But you would have to build it yourself because the sale of such a device would not be legal.
 
garett said:
English is not my native language but I hope you will be able to understand me well.

I’m hunting for more than 20 years. I don’t have a problem to get a fish. Most of fishes I’ve killed I shoot in the head or close to. But I can tell you one story that changed my spearfishing mentality.

This happened about 10 years ago. I use to live in different country and was able to hunt in the fresh water. One sunny day I was snorkeling slowly above the grass searching for pike (easy prey). Suddenly large catfish - about 2m long (this type of fish - http://apox.ru/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=93&fullsize=1 it’s not me on the picture) popped-up from the grass straight in front of my face. It hunted down something and it was busy swallowing it’s prey. It was so close to me – not more than 1m! My right arm with powerful and heavy enough pneumatic gun was above my body and I didn’t see where exactly my gun was pointed. But same time I knew exactly that if I shoot – I’m not going to miss. I had no chance to move my hand to point gun in the best place to shoot fish properly – fish will notice movement and will disappear next second. I had just a few seconds to make a decision and as that time I followed rule " If you miss the fish you miss the fish " my finger instinctively pulled trigger. I saw how spear went through the large fish body, but! – it went through it’s belly! Catfish is very strong fish, but it has a weak belly. Fish pulled me like a motorboat and I tried to follow it as fast as I could. But then fish started to spin around the grass and one moment I stopped to fill it. But fish still was fighting in the deep because huge turbulences were coming from the grass. Then next moment silence just appeared… When I recovered my spear from the grass I found a sport’s bag size fish stomach left on it.

I love and respect catfish more that any other fish because it’s a … real titanic. It’s clever and very strong fish, very respectable prey for hunter. And that time I felt absolutely destroyed not because I missed that fish – because I’ve killed it useless. I couldn’t hunt for few weeks after.

Since – if I’m not sure that I can kill fish shooting it properly – I don’t pull the trigger. Last weekend I was hunting in the sea and exactly same situation happened again – large mullet popped-up in front of my face from the grass. My hand was tired and I held the gun above my body but still I knew if I shoot - spear is going to match the target. I didn’t pull the trigger, I don’t want to spoil useless any fish any more. I did it enough, and still doing it from time to time – one of disadvantages and disappointments of the hunting.

Now, if for example that time when I meet catfish or mullet I had laser installed and calibrated on my gun and I could see where-to my gun pointed – tiny wrist’s motion will be enough to shoot that fish properly exactly in the head.

I’ve ordered green laser pointer and I’ll try to complete it’s testing soon. No matter what other people say about this.


Your English is fine, don't worry. Part and parcel of Spearfishing is that it is a 'selective' way of hunting; as a responsible spearo you should know when to pull the trigger or not, a laser won't help you here, it might give you the confidence to pull the trigger on a difficult shot without guaranteeing success. We have all missed that big fish for one reason or another but another one will come along. Ultimately practice, technique and knowledge will never be replaced by new technologies :) Right then I'm just off to buy my bass-busting submarine with fish finder and automatic filleter!
 
Spaniard said:
automatic filleter!
Let me know where you get one rofl Now there's a device we all could do with :)

dave said:
The thing with laser sights is that they are suggested over and over again, mainly by novices or people with limited experience of different conditions. It is not that they would be unsporting, just the opposite in fact, as they would prevent spearos from developing the fast, instinct shooting techniques that are the most efficient way to shoot a speargun
cheers
dave
Need anymore be said on the matter?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Almostafish
garett said:
English is not my native language but I hope you will be able to understand me well.


I’ve ordered green laser pointer and I’ll try to complete it’s testing soon. No matter what other people say about this.


Garett I can understand you perfectly, I have experienced similar situations myself.
Recently there was a survey carried out in Hawaii where scientist wanted to find out more about the locale Barracuda population. They used "over the counter" green lasers to measure the fishes length. This was achieved by fixing two laser pointers together at a set distance apart, when the beams hit the fish, this was videoed & the distance between the dots was scaled to accurately size the fish.
I found the article by searching the net but unfortunately I cant seem to relocate it?
It is always interesting to learn of other peoples opinions & in this case (lasers) there is obviously a mixed feeling. Personally if I want to go sight seeing I leave my gun at home! I dont take my gun to tease fish I take it to kill!
Good luck with your experiment Garett, I will be very interested in your progress :)
 
Almostafish said:
Come on guys this is and old hunter gathrer instinct that does not need sights, if you miss the fish then you miss the fish, try harder next time.


I'll mirror that.
 
I decided to add a few new lines to clarify some of the questions.

Different people practice spearfishing because of different reasons. I passed that stage when I was doing it for fun. Now I’m hunting mostly to feed (or by other word - to satisfy) my hunter’s instinct. I feel like a hunter and nobody else when I’m searching for my prey underwater. I like clean instant kills only (than less harm to the fish – than better), because as a hunter I really love my prey – the fish. Second thing is - I’m continuously trying to improve my hunting techniques (including equipment) to improve profitability. In ideally my target is – get fish from every shoot. Not because I want to get lot of fish - last time I’m trying to do not kill more than my family can consume.

I used pneumatic guns only. All of them had pointers. But I think people who designed those pointers were sitting in the office and using some software. MAYBE those pointers (not guns) were tested in some swimming pool with clear water, extra light and gun was fixed to some static holder. In real conditions all pointers I’ve seen were not practical. I think this is one of reasons why lot of hunters doesn’t like to use pointers at all. Those hunters who are pointing gun into target still don’t use them, they just simple point gun itself.
As a curious person some time ago I decided to track my proficiency in order to find out how useful pointer is. First I spent time practicing to use gun with pointer. Then I started hunting one day with pointer, next day without it and I was recording all results. After couple of moths of tests I analyzed data and I discovered that pointer was increasing my profitability more than twice. Plus I missed significantly less of fish because most of kills with pointer were done in the head or close to it. Then I decided to improve pointing system I had and to design my own pointer for gun I had that time and for conditions I was using that gun. First I tried to use similar to fire gun pointers. But they were not efficient because air and water are different substances. Then I tried lot of different designs and different things, and at the end of my experiments I’ve created (actually borrowed from some fire arms and re-designed it for water) pointer that was fitting most of my needs. It was made from simple piece of large diameter (as I remember about 5cm) of tube, which I cut from both sides at 45degree (to avoid grass dragging) with two crosses made from 3mm wire installed inside of that tube from both sides. Total length of that tube was as I remember about 30-40cm. I had no problem to install that pointer on top of my pneumatic gun, and I spent one day calibrating and targeting it. I had powerful gun and I used it to hunt on up to 5m distance from tip to the target. But average distance was 2-3m. So I calibrated that pointer on that distance. As result spear was very accurately hitting about 3cm in diameter spot from distance of 2-3m, closer – spear was hitting couple of cm just above that spot, further – few cm below same spot. I used that pointer for long time efficiently of course when I had possibility to use it. When I couldn’t point gun properly I preferred to do not pull the trigger because I wasn’t worried that I’m going to let some fish go. I knew exactly what I will get another chance to point gun properly, and I will get my fish killing it very clean.

I’ve lost that gun with that pointer a time ago. Also I had no chance to hunt for a while. Just recently I’ve got a new pneumatic gun – not the best model but it’s good enough for me. It has a tiny pointer same as all my previous guns. I started again to think if I can improve it and I’ve got idea about laser pointers. First of all I searched internet and I found that underwater laser pointers exist in this world - [ame="http://cgi.ebay.com/1-ALUMINUM-CASE-UNDERWATER-SCUBA-DIVING-LASER-POINTER_W0QQitemZ7245660744QQihZ015QQcategoryZ29575QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem"]http://cgi.ebay.com/1-ALUMINUM-CASE-UNDERWATER-SCUBA-DIVING-LASER-POINTER_W0QQitemZ7245660744QQihZ015QQcategoryZ29575QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem[/ame]
- http://www.island-scuba.com/page/001/PROD/ACCDL70
- http://www.genaldi.com/scuba.html
I knew that red laser gives just a dot, so I suspected that small dot will be hard to see and to keep it tracking underwater. I kept searching and I found green laser pointers – according to description they suppose to give not just a dot, but bright visible beam - http://www.greenlazer.com/?OVRAW=Laser%20Pointers&OVKEY=laser%20pointer&OVMTC=standard
I found that those pointers could be different power: from 5mw like pointer above up to 150mw –
[ame="http://cgi.ebay.com/Ultra-high-power-150mW-green-laser-pointer-brand-new_W0QQitemZ220008419451QQihZ012QQcategoryZ14954QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem"]http://cgi.ebay.com/Ultra-high-power-150mW-green-laser-pointer-brand-new_W0QQitemZ220008419451QQihZ012QQcategoryZ14954QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem[/ame] (More power – more chance to see the beam under water!)
And at the end I found underwater green laser pointers
- http://www.betapointer.com/diver.htm
- http://www.quasarelectronics.com/4058.htm
But as you can see they are quiet expensive… And there is no guaranty that they will give me what I need.
Same time I thought that I’m not a first person who’ve got this idea. To find some information regarding this I’ve posted question on this forum. As result some people shared experience, others expressed opinion. Thanks to everybody.

I just would like to ask those who already tried lasers underwater – did you try red or green laser?

As I’ve started this researching I decided to complete it any way. I’ve ordered ordinary land laser because it’s cheaper and same time it’s more powerful – 20mw
[ame="http://cgi.ebay.com/20mW-Green-Laser-Pointer-Serious-Performance-UK-Seller_W0QQitemZ300008986679QQihZ020QQcategoryZ14954QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem"]http://cgi.ebay.com/20mW-Green-Laser-Pointer-Serious-Performance-UK-Seller_W0QQitemZ300008986679QQihZ020QQcategoryZ14954QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem[/ame]
But after I paid for my order seller informed me that “…Please be aware that high power laser pointers should be cycled 30 seconds on, 10 seconds off as heat can build up within the laser diode drastically reducing its operating life.
Kind Regards …”
I had already to sort one problem - to seal that pointer or to design new waterproof case to be able to use it (at least for tests) underwater. Now I’ve got one more problem – I need to switch it off every 30 seconds to do not blow off laser diode - ! I need to decide now to keep this laser for experiments only or try to get different one maybe less powerful but which will not require cycling.

Any way I’ll try to test how green laser works under water and if it’s truth that it gives bright visible beam - I’ll try to take a pictures to show you how it looks like.

Then – will see…
 
Garett if you search for "green laser gun sights" you will find most models operate with a pressure switch. The switch is on a flexible cord witch you can place by your trigger finger, this means the beam will only come on when you apply pressure to the trigger. I am not sure how easy this arrangement would be to waterproof?
 
foxfish said:
...I use the most up to date equipment I can afford including a Mamba air gun...

I tried to find any information or pictures of Mamba air gun but I couldn't. Could you hlep me pelase?
 
foxfish said:
Garett if you search for "green laser gun sights" you will find most models operate with a pressure switch. The switch is on a flexible cord witch you can place by your trigger finger, this means the beam will only come on when you apply pressure to the trigger. I am not sure how easy this arrangement would be to waterproof?

No, I wanted continuous visible beam. It doesn't matter what color, but if red gives just a dot and green full lenght beam - I don't mind of green. That's will be most effective. Plus - I would like to keep it as simple as it possible.

So, nobody tried green laser under water yet???
 
Magpie said:
If you search this forum you should find plenty of info, or have a look here:

http://www.maorisub.it/

HTH

Thanks.

Web-site looks poorly.

Is this guns the same are good as expensive?

Previously I used Russian models, pneumatic and hydro-pneumatic guns (I use to live in that region), some of them you can see here:

- http://apox.ru/content/view/497/100/
- http://divemarket.ru/guns/index.html
- http://apox.ru/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=1220&fullsize=1

Lots of short models (40-60cm long) because Russian hunters hunt in fresh water (low visibility) and on very close distance. But most of them are still very powerful – here some pics of killed fish:
- http://algol.suttk.ru/fotobig/igor2_sudak_big.jpg
- http://algol.suttk.ru/fotobig/alex1_som_big.jpg
- http://apox.ru/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=191&fullsize=1
- http://apox.ru/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=93&fullsize=1

Here are most expensive Russian guns:
- http://divemarket.ru/guns/neptun400_600_800.html
- http://www.neptun.tula.net/page_eng.html
As description says they made from titanium and stainless still, they cost between $270 and $380 – it’s a lot of money for Russia (maybe close to 1000 Euro for us). But I never had a chance to try these guns.

This gun (vacuum-pneumatic) as I know is one of the best guns
(some pics here)-
http://algol.h1.ru/gun/gun_taymen_pv.htm
http://algol.h1.ru/my_equip/mih_k.htm
http://algol.h1.ru/my_equip/mih2_big.jpg

Currently I have CRESSI SL/70 because I wanted not too long gun. This gun is powerful enough and very accurate. Design – I expected better but looking on the price I’ve paid – about 120 Euro with delivery, I’m happy at this time.
 
Garett,

I've been following this thread with some interest and decided to get in contact with a mate of mine who knows a bit about lasers. He is the head of a certain British Aerospace company's Optics and Laser Technology section and mainly spends his time making things such as laser guidence systems for missiles and torpedos as well as death rays, so i asked him what he thought of the idea of putting a laser pointer on a speargun.

He told me that there are no problems he could think of to stop you using a laser underwater. The interface between the air (in the waterproof housing), the galss and the water would pose no problems with regards refraction or power loss.

He confirmed that green lasers are least attenuated by transmission through water and over a short range such (as 4/5m) it should be straight forward to transmit a foucused spot of upto 3mm diameter.

As for power, apparently "a few miliwatts" will do the trick so a standard, commercially avaliable green laser pointer would be fine.

Off the top of his head (and based on past experience) he said the best method of sealing them is to buy a small maglight and strip it out and mount the pointer inside, with such a small laser there is no problem with leaving it on all the time (providing you don't mind running the batteries down) and the sealing on a maglight case is perfectly adequate for shallow depths.

My only issue with the whole idea is the trajectory of the spear but i suppose with experimentation you can set the sight correctly for your most popular distance and shorter/longer distances can be accomodateed by shifting your aim in the same way as you would if you weren't using the sight.

I hope some of this helps and saves you some money ($300 lasers sounded like a potential waste!) and although i personally probably wouldn't use a laser sight, well done to you for experimenting and i hope whatever you come up with improves your enjoyment of fishing. I'm also sure the first guys to come up with both band and pneumatic spearguns would have attracted some flack from the 'Old Guard' even when no one was stopping them from using handspears.
 
DeeperBlue.com - The Worlds Largest Community Dedicated To Freediving, Scuba Diving and Spearfishing

ABOUT US

ISSN 1469-865X | Copyright © 1996 - 2024 deeperblue.net limited.

DeeperBlue.com is the World's Largest Community dedicated to Freediving, Scuba Diving, Ocean Advocacy and Diving Travel.

We've been dedicated to bringing you the freshest news, features and discussions from around the underwater world since 1996.

ADVERT