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Liquivision F1 release date: April 20, 2005

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
DeepThought

DeepThought

Freediving Sloth
Sep 8, 2002
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efattah said:
You could use the same gelatinuous urethane that I use to encapsulate the circuits inside the gauge.
How bout distilled water?
 
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jome

Well-Known Member
Jul 5, 2004
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I think bluetooth wouldn't work. Besides being technically very complicated, there would be all kinds of licensing issues etc. That and a relatively high power consumption would make it unfeasible IMO.

As long as it's waterproof and shows time and depth reliably...Everything else is just bonus :)
 
E

efattah

Well-Known Member
Mar 2, 2001
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I posted the photos in this thread:

[ame="http://forums.deeperblue.net/showthread.php?p=514472#post514472"]Picture of Liquivision F1 Prototype![/ame]
 
I

inseader

New Member
Jan 6, 2005
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First of all Hi Everyone! I am a long time reader but only a first time poster. This is a truly great forum, thanks to all of you for all your great inputs.

Back on topic. We are just one month away from the Liquivision F1 release and I was wondering if:
1) it was now possible to place an order online
2) new photos were available (definitive size)
3) following the prototype testing, anything had changed regarding release date, design, features, price...

Eric, keep up the good work!
I hope to soon be a happy owner of your diving computer.

Jacques.
 
J

Jersey Jim

New Member
Mar 21, 2002
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Eric, just a quick feature suggestion as I see you're getting many for the F1. And thanks for welcoming the input from everyone. With a particular sensor I use at work for industrial automation, it uses minimal buttons for the configuration of a multitude of features displayed on the crude LED menu. But the first menu/feature to choose is the "Easy/Full" mode. For those who want to use the most basic of features, the "easy mode" suits them fine and saves time muddling through a multitude of menus, or learning a very capable and sometimes complicated device. However, to exploit the specialized features (and thank goodness they're there), the "Full-mode" is selected. I can imagine receiving this superior dive computer just in the nick of time on a Friday afternoon before diving Saturday, and not having the hours to pour over the manual to learn how to take advantage of all the great features. Imagine a diver's frustration as he tries to condense hundreds if not thousands of development hours into a boatride out to the dive site. Now in "Easy mode", possibly the out-of-the-box power-up default, the diver has a very intuitive basic model that gets him up and running (or down & diving) with the chance to read over the manual at a later time. This sensor Mfgr. I spoke of is in my opinion, one of the industry leaders, yet considered the end-user from plant maintenance personel to engineer when designing their interface.

One feature I'd love to see on the F1, is something I can't imagine why they didn't put on my bike computer. It only has 4 or 5 displays to scroll through, but with gloves on, or under heavy exertion, sometimes the last thing I want to do is let go and fiddle with a tiny button. Why in the world the display can't just change automatically every several seconds is beyond me! Especially when most of the data isn't going to change drastically in several seconds. But by the sounds of your no-buttons design, you probably have thought of that early on. The more I read about the F1 features, I couldn't believe they could be packed into a dive computer of your finished product size. Now why couldn't a big company like Suunto put that sort of effort into their product. Or the Apneist for that matter. Do you realize how much room they had to work with inside their device? You probably would have had a much easier time with less constraints of their footprint.

Getting very excited to see the finished product. It's great to have an inside line to the "factory"! Keep up the great work.

Jim
 
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efattah

Well-Known Member
Mar 2, 2001
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Here are some photos from a few months ago during F1 development.
 

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efattah

Well-Known Member
Mar 2, 2001
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More photos of F1 development including the first F1 beta prototype, in a black plastic case, which is bigger than the final product (which will be metallic blue anodized aluminum).
 

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efattah

Well-Known Member
Mar 2, 2001
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The current F1 displays depth in a giant size 36 font (Palatino bold). The characters are more than half the height of the display. The font in the photos is the smallest font, used for testing and for menus etc...
Time and velocity are displayed in a font about twice the size as the test font.
 
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efattah

Well-Known Member
Mar 2, 2001
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Another feature we thought of was:
- Static competition mode
- Constant weight competition mode

The idea is as follows. You program the computer with your entire warm-up, and it takes you through the warm up step by step, displaying cues on what to do next, starting the timer appropriately, and so on.

For example, in static, you might program it to do this:
- Display says 'facial immersion for 5 minutes'
- Then it counts down 5 minutes and beeps at the end
- Display then says 'slow breathe-up 2 minutes'
- Then it counts down 2 minutes and beeps at the end
- Display then says 'starting 1-minute countdown to 1st warm-up
- Display counts down giving ten beeps on the last 10 seconds
- Display then starts the timer for static and beeps at 3'30" when you should end the warm up
- Display keeps track of official time during your warm up and cues you to move to the competition zone
- Display starts the timer on your official static attempt, given your official start time (this will be off by +/- 5 seconds since it can't know exactly when you started the static, but it knows you only have a 10 second window to start)
- Gauge then beeps at predetermined intervals during the static
- Gauge beeps like mad at final interval (when you reach your target etc...)

Similarly for constant weight, it would take you through the various hangs or statics, keeping track of official time, cueing you to move to the zone, etc... During a hang, it would display the time remaining for that hang, then cue you to go up, etc....

Using the click-on button attachment (good to 2m of depth), the gauge can be used in the pool as a stopwatch with a 1,000,000 lap memory. You can program any interval timer, such as beeping at 15/30/45/15 second intervals, etc...

Any other ideas for features?

Further, you can purchase the semi-custom F1, in which features of your choice are pre-programmed. Or, you can purchase a stock F1, then purchase the PC interface, and then later on purchase a custom program; you are e-mailed the zip file, and then you run the PC software to upload the new program into your F1. Eventually, of course, you could purchase the development kit and write your own programs.
 
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J

jome

Well-Known Member
Jul 5, 2004
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The first word that comes to mind is "wow".

I have a question about developing your own programs. Will there be some kind of protected user area for user programs, or full access to whole memory? I'm just worried that if I start hacking about it, I'll mess up the original programming, so I would prefer that there be some kind of "user mode", for my own programs, with limited access to system functions and the original programming (os and "off the box" functionality), would be on a ROM and protected RAM.

I don't know how much sense that made, but I'm pretty sure you've taken this into account.

Just one idea for scuba divers. It would be cool if you could upload a plan, from say vplanner into the thing and then it would show (very much like in your static-mode idea) each stage what you should be doing (counting down decompression times, telling you what gas to breathe etc). Of course it would have some kind of "panic"-button for going manual, if the dive doesn't go as planned. I know this is primarily a freedive computer, but something like that would broaden your market quite a bit...

Oh, and if you do include the competition modes, be sure to include an easy "one touch" function to "synch to official clock". I'm always having trouble with that one ;)
 
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Veronika

Well-Known Member
Nov 13, 2003
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Hi Eric,
I like that idea very much. The problem I see is that it could be pretty disturbing if the alarm is too loud. I just imagine a static competition where everybody is trying to relax and then, every minute, an alarm goes off somewhere rofl . Apart from that, if several divers are warming up next to each other, it could perhaps be a lilttle difficult to tell whose F1 was beeping. I guess vibra call and different ringtones are not an option ;) :D...

Veronika
 
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Jersey Jim

New Member
Mar 21, 2002
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Personally, I think it's Beautiful! Smooth, uncluttered lines, and no vulnerable rubber button-boots. Also, I'm very interested in the integrity of the back cover. Will it use many screws and an o-ring, etc.? And more importantly, will the user be able to replace the battery at the end of it's service life?

Jim
 
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jome

Well-Known Member
Jul 5, 2004
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Oh, one more idea. Since you obviously have the know how, why not slap a pulse monitor on a future version as well (f2 or something).

I have no idea how complicated that would be to implement, just tossing around ideas...
 
glennv

glennv

hybrid lifeform
Nov 28, 2002
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That would be ideal indeed. Now i still use 2 watches. Currently a D3 (soon to e replaced with the F1 ;-) ) and a Suunto X6HR Hartrate monitor. The one watch that holds everything ......... Imagine the programs you could write which link the current F1 collected dive data to the HR data.
Can't be too hard to integrate a reciever can it ?
 
J

jome

Well-Known Member
Jul 5, 2004
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Eric, I just got another idea.

I'm not sure if this is already in there, but I thought it would be cool.

How about attaching "trigger pins" to the device, so that when you program an alarm to go off, it also triggers a voltage in pins sticking out of the computer. That way it could be rigged in self inflating jackets (or whatever someone's imagination can conjure up...Say a dive light switching on after speding 30 minutes at 100m or something) and what not, to trigger them by depth, time, etc...Not very useful for most people, but I'm sure a few people would appreciate such a feature. Or you could just make that another device all together.

Again, just tossing around ideas...
 
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DeepThought

DeepThought

Freediving Sloth
Sep 8, 2002
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Great idea Jome! :)
It would be a great safety feature.
I remember suggesting something similar in a thread about a SWB jacket of some sort, that if there was a computer to figure the dive profile is not reasonable it'll launch you to the surface (after a warning beep).
The missing link in that fantasy was a programable dive computer, and now there is one.
It could change they way we percieve freediving risks...
 
immerlustig

immerlustig

BlueSkunk
Aug 17, 2002
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i don't know if i want to put my faith too much into gadgets. i did that once diving. diving till the depth alarm goes off. it did, but i didn't hear it. surprise.

if someone needs his light to switch on automatically, well whateva, but the thing with the life jacket...dunno

don't you think this is getting a bit complex? once we were happy to have a dive computer that logged more than 1 dive.

r
 
cebaztian

cebaztian

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2003
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Fascinating. That it can be done. It would be very intresting if this watch could challenge D3.
Eric, Has it cost a lot to develop?
Is the F1 with the PFD team on Cayman now? If so - how is it doing?

Now that AIDA is opening up for use of fluidgogles will this make an impact on the fluidgogles sale (I understand you put a lot of money in the developing phase there).

Sebastian
Sweden
 
J

jome

Well-Known Member
Jul 5, 2004
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I wasn't thinking along the lines of the average freediver. I agree that an average freediving at moderate depths or recreational dives would propably be at more risk if he trusted him self to devices (false heightened sense of security would lead to wrecklesness).

I was thinking more like a world record class no-limits diver etc would propably have use for such a feature. The example with the dive light was a bit odd, as I didn't mention that in my head I meant a light and perhaps a camera, going down alone to film a bottom plate or something. Much more inexpensive than using a ROW. In fact, why not attach a timed lift bag on the bottom plate/sled as such. Program it for an hour or so, do your dives and wait for the bottom weights float to surface after you're done, in stead of heaving some 50kg from 200m with muscle strength...Just a few ideas.

The only limit is your imagination :)
 
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efattah

Well-Known Member
Mar 2, 2001
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The 'voltage triggered pin' idea can already be done, with the existing F1.

However, although it might be useful to raise the bottom ballast after variable dives, I wouldn't trust my life to it!

Cost of developing the F1?
- Money--estimated $15K
- Time--8 months full time without pay (=$50K++)

Bill Stromberg is now in Cayman as one of the AIDA judges and he has the first F1 in his hand right now. It is a limited functionality version, with custom programming for the Cayman event. In pressure chamber tests, the accuracy in depth was 0.2m or +/- 0.35%,whichever is greater. The D3, on the other hand, showed an error of about +/- 1.3%. However, the D3 samples once per second, the F1 samples four times per second, so on rapid turn-arounds on the bottom, the F1 should win by far. The D3 can measure depth to 99.9m; the F1 in Cayman can measure depth to 409.9m, although I couldn't test it to that depth!

Here are some pictures of the F1 which went to Cayman.
 

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