Lower oxygen consumption levels.

[Mullins]

Probably insulated you from the heat, Mikko!

 

[MikkoP]

Good point! In that case, I guess I'll wear 5 mm suit next time to get even bigger advantage...

 

[TimoP]

If they can do a white Elios suit for hot competitions, it would be perfect!
Or Aluminium outside, it would be cool, I mean the looks, too!

In fact there is Aluminium outside tents for hot countries.

 

[rnsaicic]

Not only it shows a great and paradoxical difference between cyclic meditation (alternating of relaxation with moderate exercise/awareness) and supine relaxation (meditating while laying on the back), but it also mentions other studies where there was found that yoga breathing (ujjaji pranayama) acts hyper-metabolically (increases oxygen consumption). So people doing pranayama before their performance (or even during the days preceding it), may be actually harming themselves. Well, the study did not look at consumption in an apnea following such relaxation practice, so the actual influence on O2 consumption during a maximal breath-hold may be very different than what the results show, but those using yoga methods, may be interested in the results anyway, and might want to experiment little bit more with alternating their preparation.


One should be precise when using the term "pranayama". The so called "small pranayama", which does not involve breath-holds longer than a few seconds, indeed increases O2 consumption up to 50%. However, the "great pranayama", which involves relatively long respiration breaks (i. e. breath-holds) results in decreased O2 consumption for up to 20%; Ref: Telles, S.; Desiraju, T. The Indian Journal of Medicinal Research 1991, No. 94, p. 357-363.

Radomir

 

[rnsaicic]

Correction: the first part of the preceeding message was a quote from the one of preceeding Trux's posts in this thread, referring to the influence of pranayama to O2 consumption, but for some reason it was not properly formated.

R.

 

[trux]

Rnsaicic, as I wrote, the study mentions specifically "ujjaji pranayama", but also speaks about other studies focusing on diverse other yogi breathing methods. There may be indeed differences between individual types, but that's exactly why I wrote about about it here - many freedivers use diverse yogi breathing methods without any deeper knowledge about them, and can well harm their performance instead of improving it.

PS: As for the misformatted quote - you can simply click the Edit button below the original post, select the paragraph, and use the quote button in the tool bar to fix it, if you want.

 

[mattbigblue]

TimoP:

I`m doing same approach as Your friend and it works well for me. Acutally changing it from warm-up to no warm-up at all increase my PB in DNF by 45m. Contractions are coming early as well, around 35-40m and become less noticeable after 100m. I have a question about packs. How many did he do on his 184m swim?? As much as he can? 5-10 or 15+??
I`m thinking about positive aspects of fully packing, and i don`t feel the difference if I pack 15+ or 5-10, actually i did my PB with 5-8 packs. More packs increase pressure and delay DR, but still more tests need to be performed.

p.s. how do You think guys, is high heart rate helping for no-warm up dive?I mean numbers like 85-95 because of stress that You can`t control during competition??

 

[TimoP]

For 184m he packed full as usual, 20+.
I pack 12-15 (almost my max packing) for dyn/dnf, but for sta I have found 5-10 better for relaxation, so far. Now by doing more CO2/O2 tables and apnea walking, I don't feel my contractions as bad as they used to. So it goes...
Bad feelings with contractions do my limits, not samba (yet). Never had BO, and i hope i never will.

High HR in start is not so bad thing, because so O2 goes effectivly with blood to tissues. But if HR is high because you are not relaxed, it will not benefit you. But don't stress if you have high HR because of excitement... think then: Now my blood circulates well
Of course HR should go down soon during diving (DR).

 

[MikkoP]

Mattbigblue, I packed around 30 times for my 184 m DNF. It's almost the max amount for me.

Congratulations, 45 m increase is huge! Keep experimenting with the amount of packing, but at least for me the equation is: more packs, longer dive.

Higher heart rate might be beneficial, if it doesn't raise the body's overall oxygen consumption. Anyway, I think I have done my best dives with low heart rate from the beginning, but the difference is not big compared to dives with higher pulse at the start.

 

[trux]

Just a shameless self-promoting update: yesterday, at the competition in Nimes, I did 116 m DNF in a 50 m pool. Well, I did the 3rd best DNF of the competition, but finished without any medall, because all others did DNF in a 25 m pool. I could not because it was not internationally rated, so did it in the DYN pool, and was not classified together with the other DNF in the 25m pool.

I used the same preparation. Still no cyclic meditation, but I used some "single-syllab" mediation also mentioned in the document discussed here in this thread. If I understood well some posts about Sara Campbell's preparation, I think she also uses this kind of mediation. It is real that it is perfectly relaxing, but on the other hand, you need to be carefull with it not to mess up your breathing rythm with it too much.

 

[Tony Babowicz]

thats quite a swim for a 50m pool. What was your total dive time?

 

[trux]

thats quite a swim for a 50m pool. What was your total dive time?

Thanks, Tony. Yes, strangely, the pool seemed to be quite a bit longer than usually. Unfortunately I did not manage to make the habitual 4 turns this time

And I am sorry, again nobody chronometered the dives, and I forgot to ask my colleagues to take the time, so I do not know again. However, I think I was neither extremely slow, nor too fast, so I'd tell it had to be something over 2 minutes, or perhaps 2'30? Hope I manage to put my hands on the video.

 

[trux]

Ah, I forgot: this time I eated some honey around 30' minutes before the dive, and did not experience any muscle failure. In fact I do not even know why I surfaced - I had neither bad lactic acid problems, neither unsupportable contractions, nor strong hypoxic symptoms. More or less I surfaced because I though it ought to be enough. SP without problems, although there were some laud burps to hear during the protocol - I do not know why, but I swallowed quite a bit of air when managing the contractions. Usually I do not use to have such problems.

 

[TimoP]

116 m DNF in a 50 m pool, that's really good, Trux!
So with no problem in the end it means, you have capacity to do 125m DNF in a 25 m pool very soon. And that would be really something :king

You are now a real competitive freediver, not only a great internet freediver helping others!

That honey is interesting, too...i remember it was in DP that also some other freediver got a huge improvement to his pb after eating honey, and it was a very big amount of honey!

 

[trux]

You are now a real competitive freediver, not only a great internet freediver helping others!

Yeah, it's funny to see myself, an old IT wreck, a theorist, finishing at the top of 70 mostly 2-3 times younger athletes in top shape, and/or experienced with many years of competitions, and often with some swimming career past Little bit surprising to me too, because I'd tell all of them should easily do the double of my performance. At least it shows, the theory pays back at least as well as the physical shape. If now I only had the shape too ;P

That honey is interesting, too...i remember it was in DP that also some other freediver got a huge improvement to his pb after eating honey, and it was a very big amount of honey!

I did not take a lot, just about something like 3-4 tea spoons.

 

[cdavis]

Trux, do you ever wear a heart monitor? I'd be real curious to see what your heart does, during breathup and all the way through one of those dnf dives.

Connor

 

[trux]

Trux, do you ever wear a heart monitor? I'd be real curious to see what your heart does, during breathup and all the way through one of those dnf dives.

No, unfortunately I do not have any waterproof HR monitor yet. I'll have to get one. I can only tell what I felt subjectively - normally I am rarely able to hear of feel my heart beat, but during the preparation and even during the relaxation I heard the heart beating quite strong and rather fast (I'd tell at least 90, perhaps even over 100). Anyway, I did not really try pushing it down, knowing it is better for oxygenating my venous blood, but avoided intentional hyperventilation which would speed it up even more. I did not notice what happened with the HR during the DNF, but during my STA (where I did the same dry preparation), the HR started dropping and disappearing from my ears within seconds after the immersion. I think I did not hear/feel it anymore after some 30s, perhaps less.

 

[Phil C]

Congratulations on the DNF Trux. Nice swim, especially to come up thinking you could have done more.