I can say that revan's advice of not kicking when off-axis works also with the Lunocet, and I've done that with my Glide too. For me, if I get off-axis and try to physically correct it, it feels almost like I forget where straight/hydro was. I have to get back to glide to straighten. This only works when I'm properly weighted, which is rare. I must add more weight to my neck collar, and have been making up for that by not having a full breath. While it works, it isn't consistent, and if it isn't just right and I get off axis then glide, I either hit bottom or start toward surface. In other words, I stop being horizontal. As to glide fins, mine is a really stiff one so even though it fits me the foot pocket rubber is stiff also, and therefore brutal on the feet. It's supposed to be that tight as it's a sprint/depth competition fin, so I suffer when I try to use it to train with. I know that probably makes glide fins look worse than they would be if I had one made for what I'm using it for.
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Lunocet vs. Dol-fin
- Thread starter finSailor
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Thread Status: Hello
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I'm a longtime Dol-fin user (X20) and so here's some comments on the questions raised above - unfortunately, I can't comment on the Lunocet since it's changed so much (apparently) since the first one I tried way back in the last decade.
Slideslipping: I think that is a factor for any fin - my first hyper was really bad for the first few swims as I could flex the footpockets independently (Hyperfin). It comes down to specific skill required for that fin and your monofin style. When I first started using Dol-fin prototypes, I found the foil harder to manage. Now, I don't experience sideslipping at all, unless distracted by a beautiful mermaid. I do a lot of swimming on my side on the surface (shark style) and this takes some extra focus for maintaining good traction and control, so maybe that's a factor.
Big power strokes: Dol-fin works fine with small ankles flicks or big giant full body and leg dominant monofin strokes with awesome acceleration. I would argue that the limit of any hyperfin is your strength (to make the fin bend) and ankle flexibility. Not so with the Dol-fin. I also love the springy loading up of a monofin that suits me, but with a foil fin you don't have to worry that the fin is too stiff or the foot pockets too soft.
I think as these technologies evolve, it'll be harder and harder to compare them, which is a good thing. And the key differences for choosing which one to invest your time and money in will come down to look, brand, customer service and wow factor.
Now, here's the question I want to know: why don't we see either fin in world class competitions? (except for Eric? or did I miss that?)
Slideslipping: I think that is a factor for any fin - my first hyper was really bad for the first few swims as I could flex the footpockets independently (Hyperfin). It comes down to specific skill required for that fin and your monofin style. When I first started using Dol-fin prototypes, I found the foil harder to manage. Now, I don't experience sideslipping at all, unless distracted by a beautiful mermaid. I do a lot of swimming on my side on the surface (shark style) and this takes some extra focus for maintaining good traction and control, so maybe that's a factor.
Big power strokes: Dol-fin works fine with small ankles flicks or big giant full body and leg dominant monofin strokes with awesome acceleration. I would argue that the limit of any hyperfin is your strength (to make the fin bend) and ankle flexibility. Not so with the Dol-fin. I also love the springy loading up of a monofin that suits me, but with a foil fin you don't have to worry that the fin is too stiff or the foot pockets too soft.
I think as these technologies evolve, it'll be harder and harder to compare them, which is a good thing. And the key differences for choosing which one to invest your time and money in will come down to look, brand, customer service and wow factor.
Now, here's the question I want to know: why don't we see either fin in world class competitions? (except for Eric? or did I miss that?)
Recently I completed two sets of Lunos.... Including Lunocet forefins.
The result is frequently having a guest swimmer in the water with me..... This morning it was a high school life guard / swim team girl who swam beautifully the very first pass.... Observing a short learning curve for guests and more entertaining swims for me are features.
One long time ski buddy who is a new monoswim buddy sent me the following video:
It is not exactly swimming but it is cool and shows that foils have some seriously creative applications in water..... Note that this application relies on a forefin!
One long time ski buddy who is a new monoswim buddy sent me the following video:
It is not exactly swimming but it is cool and shows that foils have some seriously creative applications in water..... Note that this application relies on a forefin!
OK, I've mentioned earlier that I had troubles to keep the fin leveled. As the water got a bit warmer now, I used a thinner surf suit with less weight (and still no neck weight [emoji19] ). Swimming was great, and I had no troubles to control body vs. fin position during (mostly horizontal) glides. Three kg vs. 7 kg, that makes a difference, but I think more importantly is a symmetric distribution of the weights on the belt.
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Hi Guys, Probably you are already aware of the new speedo biomimetic fins but if not I am sure that the designers can get here http://www.speedousa.com/nemesis-fins/style-7530479 some valuable inspiration for their future designs. Do you think that the incorporation of these tubercles and/or blow valves could further improve the current luno and dol-fin?
It's interesting that the graphic draws attention to an increased length of the edge which is odd because the believed benefit of tubercles on the fin is to make the fin more efficient by increasing the angle of attack before the fin stalls. This allows the whale's fin to be more manouvarable I guess because of such a large fin, which they have to shift, this type of adaptation becomes useful at such large scale. I wonder how useful/effective it would be at our human scale?Hi Guys, Probably you are already aware of the new speedo biomimetic fins but if not I am sure that the designers can get here http://www.speedousa.com/nemesis-fins/style-7530479 some valuable inspiration for their future designs. Do you think that the incorporation of these tubercles and/or blow valves could further improve the current luno and dol-fin?
You also do not see tubercles on the tail fluke. You see a ragged trailing edge but nothing obvious on the leading edge which would suggest that these adaptations have not been naturally selected for the purposes of enhancing propulsion but rather for the observed purpose of improving manoeuvrability.
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The "tubercles" on humpback whale fins are a leading edge device that acts as a vortex generator to strengthen the boundary layer over the fin. It is useful for low speed maneuvering particularly when the fin is at high AOA and low Reynolds numbers. The things on these fins are not a leading edge device and are only similar by the name with which the manufacturer uses to describe them and also in that they have a bumpy appearance. My guess is that their true efficacy is in aesthetics not performance.
Keep in mind that these Speedo fins are for swim training. The primary goal for these fins is not to make someone swim better, but to make them stronger for having used the device over a period of time. Primarily, it is a resistance device for strength training. The goal is rather contrary to what freedivers want from their equipment which is to achieve better swimming performance when using less energy and strength.
That said; what does this have to do with the subject of this thread?
Keep in mind that these Speedo fins are for swim training. The primary goal for these fins is not to make someone swim better, but to make them stronger for having used the device over a period of time. Primarily, it is a resistance device for strength training. The goal is rather contrary to what freedivers want from their equipment which is to achieve better swimming performance when using less energy and strength.
That said; what does this have to do with the subject of this thread?
Yes, Ron those Speedo fins are not going to help us go farther or faster. Kind of like my son training with a drag suit or a drag chute-pulling a fabric bucket behind while swimming. Has anyone put together a location, a venue, perhaps at an event, where it would be possible to swap fins and compare different ones? I have a feeling that the different designs may work better for one person's build or technique than another, and we are all different. It would be fun and interesting to be able to try out multiple designs back to back.
The best place to get together and compare things is at the freediving competitions.
I've done comparisons before in Kona at the Freedive Paradise competition in 2014. I know there are several DOL-Fins in Kona and Kurt has the 2013 and 2014 Lunocets from the photo shoots he did for Ted.
I haven't been there this year, so I don't know if Ted sent a 2015 Lunocet to Kurt or not. If not, you Lunocet guys might have to start going to competitions with your 2015s. It is really fun, and really educational. Just Do It!
I know its far ,but Finland was selected to host AIDA Freediving Pool World Championships In 2016. My Luno will probably be there. @REVAN, let's hope your design shows up also 
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