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Mares Cyrano Evo HF problems

armandozx

Cubanmissle!
Aug 8, 2007
341
37
68
Miami
Need some advise on a few events that happened over the past few days. First and foremost the line release on the gun broke, I loaded the gun as described in the book. It started giving me problems on thursday it wouldn't come back to the position with the shaft in and I was unable to put the mono on the line release found it odd but rolled with it anyways. I spoke to mares and they will take a look on monday, somewhat concerned, upset and disappointed with my purchase now.

I'm thinking is a design flaw, is mares taking action on this and doing a revision? the plastic broke right off, from inside. doesn't catch at all. line release moves freely forward and back.


Something else that happened during my dive today which was unacceptable was that the (bleep) shaft fell with the weapon loaded right when i was about to take my shot, WTF IS THAT, i don't understand why that happened, can someone explain why the shaft would literally just fall off a loaded weapon.

I'm also having trouble understanding the concept of loading the weapon on low power, isn't suppose to load easier when in low, it still gives me the same resistance, however if I load in high power shot in low power my next load cycle in the low power position allows me to load in low power.
 
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tromic

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2007
1,551
149
153
Croatia
Need some advise on a few events that happened over the past few days. First and foremost the line release on the gun broke, I loaded the gun as described in the book. It started giving me problems on thursday it wouldn't come back to the position with the shaft in and I was unable to put the mono on the line release found it odd but rolled with it anyways. I spoke to mares and they will take a look on monday, somewhat concerned, upset and disappointed with my purchase now.

I'm thinking is a design flaw, is mares taking action on this and doing a revision? the plastic broke right off, from inside. doesn't catch at all. line release moves freely forward and back.


Something else that happened during my dive today which was unacceptable was that the (bleep) shaft fell with the weapon loaded right when i was about to take my shot, WTF IS THAT, i don't understand why that happened, can someone explain why the shaft would literally just fall off a loaded weapon.

I'm also having trouble understanding the concept of loading the weapon on low power, isn't suppose to load easier when in low, it still gives me the same resistance, however if I load in high power shot in low power my next load cycle in the low power position allows me to load in low power.
If the cone at the end of the spear is not unwinded, then maybe the piston front end is broken? Problem with line release is known issue.
 
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armandozx

armandozx

Cubanmissle!
Aug 8, 2007
341
37
68
Miami
Upon further inspection the cone was unwind a bit, will be using lock tight on that soon.

Tromic, I wasn't aware that line release problems were common with the gun, I just thought it was a loading mistakes some users were experiencing with the position of the line release while loading, so I avoided those mistakes thinking I would not suffer such a fate.... That surely caught up with me.

Anyone know if mares is doing anything about this? Seems like a big flaw for such a new product, material construction at fault?
 

popgun pete

Well-Known Member
Jul 30, 2008
3,035
590
153
Australia
Plastic line release arms usually break if they remain locked when the gun shoots, or are still being partly restrained by whatever is blocking their motion at their inner end, which is usually some part of the trigger component. Metal line release arms will break the line or bust some other parts of the gun or even send the spear back at you if the line does not snap.

Part of the problem is due to the length of the displacement or travel of this blocking edge when the gun actually shoots, this edge being located somewhere on the trigger piece. The trigger arm swings through a certain angle to fire the gun and the further the blocking edge is located from the trigger's pivot pin then the displacement of that edge at that distant location is greater. Thus when the line release levers used to operate off the toe of the trigger there was more displacement of the blocking edge down there as it was as far away from the pivot pin that you could go, but if you work off the top of the trigger, as some of the new side-mounted line releases do, then there is a lot less movement or travel between the locked and free states as the blocking edge is located much closer to the trigger pivot pin.

Now if someone reduces the angle of the trigger swing required to fire the gun by screwing up the trigger adjustment screw then the displacement of the locking edge is even less than it was before, so the necessary clearance of the blocking edge is not achieved when you pull the trigger and then the line release lever breaks. More trigger angular travel before the gun shoots gives you more clearance to work with, less angular travel gives you less clearance. So the way the gun was set-up as to when the gun shoots will affect the clearance and in my opinion more trigger angular travel is better than less, within sensible limits of course, as you can take up some of the swing as you press on the trigger before actually pulling hard on it which will also give the blocking edge a "head start" in its movement to clear the inner end of the line release lever.
 
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armandozx

armandozx

Cubanmissle!
Aug 8, 2007
341
37
68
Miami
Plastic line release arms usually break if they remain locked when the gun shoots, or are still being partly restrained by whatever is blocking their motion at their inner end, which is usually some part of the trigger component. Metal line release arms will break the line or bust some other parts of the gun or even send the spear back at you if the line does not snap.

Part of the problem is due to the length of the displacement or travel of this blocking edge when the gun actually shoots, this edge being located somewhere on the trigger piece. The trigger arm swings through a certain angle to fire the gun and the further the blocking edge is located from the trigger's pivot pin then the displacement of that edge at that distant location is greater. Thus when the line release levers used to operate off the toe of the trigger there was more displacement of the blocking edge down there as it was as far away from the pivot pin that you could go, but if you work off the top of the trigger, as some of the new side-mounted line releases do, then there is a lot less movement or travel between the locked and free states as the blocking edge is located much closer to the trigger pivot pin.

Now if someone reduces the angle of the trigger swing required to fire the gun by screwing up the trigger adjustment screw then the displacement of the locking edge is even less than it was before, so the necessary clearance of the blocking edge is not achieved when you pull the trigger and then the line release lever breaks. More trigger angular travel before the gun shoots gives you more clearance to work with, less angular travel gives you less clearance. So the way the gun was set-up as to when the gun shoots will affect the clearance and in my opinion more trigger angular travel is better than less, within sensible limits of course, as you can take up some of the swing as you press on the trigger before actually pulling hard on it which will also give the blocking edge a "head start" in its movement to clear the inner end of the line release lever.

Nice read Pete, thanks for the much needed insight. Received the gun today, everything was fixed, had to point out that there was an issue with the first assembly, the tech did not put the spring on the line release as it should have been, good thing I caught it before I left the store. All is fixed now.

I asked him a question about loading the gun in low power and being able to shoot in high power and he explained to me there was a cycle I needed to keep in order for me to do this, however I have a very close friend who has used pneumatics and does not understand how is even possible for what he said to even work without adding more air in the gun.

Basically the tech said, I can load in high switch to low, shoot in low, leave the leaver in low, load in low and shoot in high and load in low again by flipping the control ( back (high) and then forward (low) again prior to shooting) My friend says that he doesn't understand how that is possible because all I am doing is closing and opening a valve, basically doing nothing other than closing and opening.

So what say you experts in the field. I haven't had time to verify this yet btw.
 
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popgun pete

Well-Known Member
Jul 30, 2008
3,035
590
153
Australia
I wrote about high and low power in the "pneumatic speargun compression ratio" thread. Basically the gun can use either the expansion of all the compressed air in the air reservoir, or tank, to drive the sliding piston along the inner barrel for the shot (high power); or a smaller part of it by keeping most of the compressed air locked up behind a partitioning bulkhead located inside the tank (low power). Muzzle loading is easier after a "low power" shot as you only recompress the air volume that was used for that last shot back to the "ready to shoot" (cocked) pressure, the air located behind the bulkhead is already at that "ready to shoot" pressure because the action of cocking the gun raises the pressure throughout the entire gun. A one-way valve in the partitioning bulkhead allows air to pass through the partitioning bulkhead even though the high/low power selector switch, which is a plug operated valve mounted on a selector rod connected to an external lever or knob, is closed as the air is flowing in the opposite direction inside the gun when it is being muzzle loaded compared to when it is shooting.

Thus muzzle loading raises the air pressure throughout the entire gun; the power selector switch determines how much of the tank volume now at that elevated pressure is allowed to reduce in pressure to power the shot, either all of it or just a small portion of it. Note that after a "low power" shot the pressure in the inner barrel is less than the initial charge pressure which you pumped the gun up to with the hand pump as a smaller section of the tank has expanded into a volume that previously all the tank's contents had refilled when the gun was used at "full power". If after a "low power" shot you immediately select "high power" the balance of the compressed air then expands from behind the partitioning bulkhead and you lose any advantage in using the gun's power regulator system to conserve your loading effort.
 
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armandozx

armandozx

Cubanmissle!
Aug 8, 2007
341
37
68
Miami
I just looked for the thread pete, very long read and I will tackle with time so I can comprehend everything that is being said fully at my own pace.

To what you just wrote in regards to how I explained it, seems like the answer is a simple "NO."

I cannot load the gun on low power every time and shot on high and expect to load it again on low, which was basically what the guy there was saying if I kept that cycle of flicking the power regulator back to high and forward to low once the gun was loaded prior to shooting in a low load power state.

F*ck it, I guess I'll just have to man up and load it on high power every time, for some reason my glenoidhumeral joint has been aching a bit lately, hopefully nothing to do with this gun loading ways being the culprit.


By the way, thanks for your time!
 

popgun pete

Well-Known Member
Jul 30, 2008
3,035
590
153
Australia
What he was saying was correct, whenever you muzzle load the gun that is potentially a "high power" shot in terms of the energy now stored in the gun. The high/low selector switch position determines whether you use it as such, or go for using only part of the previous loading effort in what is a "low power" shot from a released energy perspective. "Low power" loading only occurs after a "low power" shot, otherwise there is no such thing as "low power" loading from a completely discharged gun. All muzzle loading which latches the piston in the gun stores enough energy for a "high power" shot.

The effort required to push the piston back the last centimetre or so of inner barrel travel stays the same whether the gun is on "low power" or "high power", but the effort to commence moving the piston at the muzzle end of the gun is less after a "low power" shot as the pressure has reduced for the reason cited earlier when compared to the "high power" case. The one-way valve in the partitioning bulkhead provides the progressive loading feature with the selector switch set to "low power", thus only the air remaining in the inner barrel can push the piston back to the muzzle if you don't latch the gun on any given loading stroke when pushing the spear into the gun.
 
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tromic

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2007
1,551
149
153
Croatia
Sometimes the trigger seems to be too sensitive - dangerous!
Where's the problem?
Brake lever has not enough clearance and trigger touches the brake lever !
Sometimes the trigger does not fully lock the piston, just stay at the half which means that the piston is hooked with lever tooth less than it should.
You need to remove the brake lever and the trigger. Surfaces should be sanded (that are touching and should not) approximately 0.2 mm, just to have a little more gap.
This was translated from Croatian forum where the user had self shooting of the spear gun (under water) and he solved the problem.
 

lakes68

New Member
Feb 8, 2015
3
0
1
51
cumbria uk
hi new here and not very up on how to post a new thread so was wondering if anybody could help? I've got an mares bess b speargun that I'm selling but have no idea how much its with ? anybody got any idea , any help appreciated , many thanks
 

popgun pete

Well-Known Member
Jul 30, 2008
3,035
590
153
Australia
hi new here and not very up on how to post a new thread so was wondering if anybody could help? I've got an mares bess b speargun that I'm selling but have no idea how much its with ? anybody got any idea , any help appreciated , many thanks
This really belongs in the "Spearguns & Accessories" section as the Mares "Bess B" is a spring gun. You will see a "post new thread" button in a blue rectangular box on the right hand side of the page, click on that to start a new thread. As for what it is worth depends on whether it is complete, its overall appearance and the propulsion spring still being in good condition.
 
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learner

Member
Mar 30, 2015
8
1
13
41
Greece
Hi from Greece. I'm a new owner of the mares cyrano hf 90 and trying to read reviews and problems of it.
The manual says if i had to pump more air in the pneumatic gun i must first switch the power lever to HIGH and then push the air.
The problem is that the last time i fired the gun was at LOW power [i first charge it with the power selector on HIGH and then move it to LOW]. When i tried to pump the gun [50 pumps to get over the initial 22bars] i put the selector on HIGH. I would like to ask if there's any problem with and if i must exhale all the air from the gun and start again from 0 bars.
Thanks
 

popgun pete

Well-Known Member
Jul 30, 2008
3,035
590
153
Australia
The reason the power selector is placed on "high power" for pumping the gun up to the desired operating pressure is to avoid the non-return valve in the partitioning bulkhead having to operate with every stroke of the hand pump. Thus the air being added with the hand pump strokes can then pass through the transfer port in the partitioning bulkhead as the "high power" setting has this port open (i.e. unplugged) and that creates a less restrictive flow path between the front (large volume) and rear (small volume) air chambers inside the gun. After a dive it is a good idea to set the power regulator to "high power" as this allows the pressure level to be uniform throughout the gun and eliminates any strain being placed on the non-return valve with the gun in storage.

You can add air to the gun without releasing any of the air pressure already inside it, but the reason the operating manual usually tells you to let all the air out is if you are relying on counting the pump strokes to know what the pressure is inside the gun by using the table of pump strokes versus internal pressure as that table assumes that you are starting from the situation with a gun with no pressure inside it. I suggest that you ignore the pumping table and just pump the gun up to where you can barely load it and then release a small amount of air to make it easier for repeated loading underwater. It is a good idea to let a small puff of air out to clear the inlet valve before attaching the hand pump if a gun has been in prior use as this practice avoids blowing any foreign material into the gun that may have been sitting unseen inside the inlet valve port. The rear valve caps can sometimes leak and you don't want any saltwater inside the gun.
 

learner

Member
Mar 30, 2015
8
1
13
41
Greece
Thanks for your valuable help. Sorry about my english-americans if you cant understand me well.
Before i pumped air in the gun i tried to clean inside the port with a handkerchief because i saw some saltwater there.
So yes the power when i tried to pump the air was on HIGH but the last shot was on LOW. Thats why i had the question if theres any problem with that. Now when i will go for spearfishing i will put the selector on HIGH, fire a shot and the again charge on HIGH and shot with HIGH or LOW wherever the circumstance and the last shot will be on HIGH.
 

popgun pete

Well-Known Member
Jul 30, 2008
3,035
590
153
Australia
Thanks for your valuable help. Sorry about my english-americans if you cant understand me well.
Before i pumped air in the gun i tried to clean inside the port with a handkerchief because i saw some saltwater there.
So yes the power when i tried to pump the air was on HIGH but the last shot was on LOW. Thats why i had the question if theres any problem with that. Now when i will go for spearfishing i will put the selector on HIGH, fire a shot and the again charge on HIGH and shot with HIGH or LOW wherever the circumstance and the last shot will be on HIGH.
Actually you can muzzle load the gun on the "low power" setting as this setting provides the Mares "easy (or progressive) loading" feature. "Easy loading" means that if the piston does not make it all the way back to the internal catch hook on the first muzzle loading attempt and it slides forwards again to the muzzle, then some of the loading effort you have just used will still be stored inside the gun. The job of the non-return valve in the partitioning bulkhead between the two internal air chambers is to hold back any air that has been transferred to the front tank even when a full loading stroke is not achieved, but to do that any other air pathway through the bulkhead has to be blocked off. A second muzzle loading attempt will be slightly easier as now less air has to be transferred to the front tank to make up the difference for a full power shot, or perhaps a third or fourth loading stroke depending on how far down the barrel you pushed the piston during each prior loading attempt. As I said earlier any time the piston is latched the gun is ready for a full power shot regardless of how you achieved that result in terms of the switch or regulator positions used during muzzle loading.

One way to avoid confusion is to think of the selector switch as only being "low" or "high" for output purposes, that is once the gun is cocked and ready to shoot. For muzzle loading or input purposes the selector switch is for progressive or non-progressive loading, the final result will be the same regardless of which switch position you select provided the last shot was at "high power". If the last shot was at "low power" then you just have to restore only the air used for that shot by muzzle loading the gun provided that the selector switch remains on the "low power" setting. If instead you move it to "high power" and then back to "low power" the unused air stored by the previous loading effort is completely lost and it all needs to be built up again, so you lose any advantages of using this split (double) air chamber system. Any one who can ram the shaft all the way in with one swift push to latch the piston can ignore the regulator switch as the non-return valve will stay open during the full loading stroke, in which case the larger bore transfer port may as well be left open by using the "high power" setting. However higher gun pressures (30 bar and upwards) can make one push loading rather difficult in which case you can save some energy using the progressive loading feature as you don't lose all the energy involved with any failed muzzle loading attempts.
 

learner

Member
Mar 30, 2015
8
1
13
41
Greece
Thanks again for your help.
Its a lot of help for the beginners like me.
Yesterday went for spearfishing with the mares cyrano hf 90. From the factory for the Greek buyers the HF90 has 22bars pressure. I pumped 50 more strokes as i said. I think if at the start had 22bars now it might have around 23 and maybe a littler more 23.5. I made shots with HIGH and LOW. On the LOW's some small fishes had a lot of luck and the spear after the shot was empty :D. On the HIGH's the basket of luck for the fishes was empty. About 2-2.5meters from the tip the small fishes was hooked on the spear. This little gun (about 97-100cm with spear inside) is easier to move and have a lot more power than the ELITE SAMBLE 90cm with one 16mm band (about 140cm with the spear inside) i had. The view of the spear to target is a little different but i'm trying to learn it. And think that i have only about 23bars inside. Wondering how it would be on 26 to 27bars if i can charge it.
Today pumped another 50 strokes inside. I think now it have around 24bars. Tried to push the valve for a puff as you told me but it excreted a little oil. Hope not to be a problem and have to fill extra oil.
I didn't know that if i made a shot on HIGH and then try to charge the gun again but on LOW this time if i push say half the shaft inside and let go and then push again 1 or more time its easier to charge it.
The only strange i saw was when i charged on HIGH and made a shot on LOW then it was easier to charge the shaft even without the mares charger.
Is there any workshop manual or a complete chart of the mares cyrano hf pneumatic guns on net?
Thanks again.
 

learner

Member
Mar 30, 2015
8
1
13
41
Greece
Also when i pump extra air inside the gun when the pump in on the higher height before the start of the next pump i hear a small fssst. Is that normal?
 

popgun pete

Well-Known Member
Jul 30, 2008
3,035
590
153
Australia
There is no workshop manual available to the public as far as I know, but Mares would have a service manual for their own technicians to use. Getting one would not be easy as I expect that Mares want to keep such things "in-house". The noise you hear as air transfers into the gun with the completion of each hand pump stroke is normal, it is the rear inlet valve opening once the pressure in the hand pump exceeds that pressure already inside the gun. When the pump handle is raised air refills the pump through the breather hole near the top of the pump body.

Experiment with the pressure level that suits you as ultimately you have to load the gun. Shooting further distances requires a longer gun rather than pumping a shorter one to higher pressures, that is why manufacturers sell different length guns.
 

Erasmus

New Member
Jun 25, 2015
3
0
1
44
LIbya
Hi all from Libya. Well about 3 months ago I bought a Mares Cyrano EVO HF 90 and was working like a dream. I had to go abroad for a few weeks and cleaned the gun really well and sprayed WD40 over the all important parts. I also left it fully pressurized, but unloaded. After I returned (3 weeks or so), I went for a dive, loaded the shaft and missed two good shots because the gun wouldn't fire. I figured there might be some kind of dirt, and eventually depressurised the gun completely, blew pressurised air into the trigger area just in case there was some dirt, and gave it a few shots of WD40, and pressurized it again. I didn't try it out as I was on land. Yesterday I went diving again and the gun would not shoot. I took a screwdriver with me and turned the sensitivity screw in various positions, but the gun, although pressurized and loaded, will not fire even when the screw is set to the position which allows the most trigger travel. I am stumped - what could it be - I don't trust any workshop here in Libya to do any repairs - and prefer to do it myself. Any ideas guys?

Thanks.