Mares Mirage

[popgun pete]

I assume that this component must be from a later "Mirage" as that front bulkhead is a completely different moulding on my "Mirage" gun. The bulkhead on my gun does not have metal reinforcing rods embedded in the plastic and is quite different in its overall appearance as there is no well as such located behind the partitioning bulkhead. That means that with no partitioned off extra volume located there the gun's pre-chamber in not much larger than the inner barrel volume and so my "Mirage" gun can be pumped down to near zero pressure on the fifth pumping barrel stroke. Looks like in addition to a well or open space located behind the bulkhead the selector 2 position has been made into a throttled opening and so follows the same tri-power principle used in the "Titan". All my previous comments relate to the early gun with the red plastic parts, we never had the later "Mirage" gun sold here. So the later "Mirage" gun was revised more than I had realized from simply studying the exploded drawings. That ball valve with the heavy duty spring is a safety release valve to prevent the pressure differential in the gun getting too high if you used too many pump strokes of the pumping barrel or let the air out via the inlet valve with the power regulator selector in position 1 (load). When that heavy duty spring ball valve opens some air transfers back from the high pressure in the forward section of the gun to the pre-chamber and thus elevates the pressure there to help restore the imbalance to a level that the gun can tolerate. As far as I could tell that valve never opened on my gun, but then I always kept to the 5 stroke pumping barrel limit.

Here is the pumping table example given in the original Mares instructions for a "Mirage" gun (only the 80 cm model was available back then) pressurized to 30 kg/cm2. 1st pumping barrel stroke: 30 kg/cm2 reduces to 22 kg/cm2 , 2nd stroke: 22 kg/cm2 reduces to 16 kg/cm2, 3rd stroke: 16 kg/cm2 reduces to 10 kg/cm2, 4th stroke: 10 kg/cm2 reduces to 5 kg/cm2, 5th stroke: 5 kg/cm2 reduces to 0 kg/cm2; the reduced pressure being the pressure inside the inner barrel and pre-chamber which is what you have to load against. So once the 5 pumping barrel strokes were completed the "Mirage" gun was very easy to load!

 

[tromic]

Mine, which I disassembled, was like on this diagram from ulysses.
Peter this was the answer to my dilemma:

"That ball valve with the heavy duty spring is a safety release valve to prevent the pressure differential in the gun getting too high if you used too many pump strokes of the pumping barrel or let the air out via the inlet valve with the power regulator selector in position 1 (load). When that heavy duty spring ball valve opens some air transfers back from the high pressure in the forward section of the gun to the pre-chamber and thus elevates the pressure there to help restore the imbalance to a level that the gun can tolerate."

I supposed that valve was for that purpose but I needed your opinion.

 

[popgun pete]

In the "Mirage" instructions it actually says the following:

6) Internal safety valve
So as to avoid pressure exceeding 40 kg/cm2, an internal safety valve has been inserted between the two sections of the gun. Furthermore it is practically impossible to pump in air over the prescribed pressure of 40 kg/cm2.

What that is really saying is the safety valve limits the pressure differential, but the way it is written it sounds like the safety valve limits the overall pressure in the gun to 40 kg/cm2. That is not correct as to do that a safety valve would have to vent air outside the gun once that pressure level was reached. It requires 1100 pump strokes to take the early version of the "Mirage" up to 40 kg/cm2 or 40 Bar. When I did my first shooting tests with the "Mirage" (I had to repair if first because it leaked oil at a number of locations even though it was brand new) I only used about 30 Bar (640 strokes), but I soon took it up to 40 Bar as I did not see much point in using the lower pumping barrel otherwise. Once I knew what pumping 40 Bar felt like I put the same pressure in my "Sten" using the same hand pump, but as expected it was nearly impossible to load at that pressure, however it then shot 3 line wraps although the 8 mm diameter shaft was beginning to drop near the end of shaft travel. Loading the "Miniministen" was easier, being rested against the thigh, so I pumped it up to about 40 Bar as well. That pressure level eventually busted it, so I had to replace it with the "Competition Line" version of the same gun which I used at slightly less pressure judging by the effort to push the pump handle down and also to load it. When doing this high pressure pumping the air transfer at the bottom of the pump stroke produces loud shrieking noises once you get near the hand pump's upper pressure limit, plus the lower end of the pump barrel becomes hot from the effects of adiabatic heating.

 

[popgun pete]

Mine, which I disassembled, was like on this diagram from ulysses.
Peter this was the answer to my dilemma:

"That ball valve with the heavy duty spring is a safety release valve to prevent the pressure differential in the gun getting too high if you used too many pump strokes of the pumping barrel or let the air out via the inlet valve with the power regulator selector in position 1 (load). When that heavy duty spring ball valve opens some air transfers back from the high pressure in the forward section of the gun to the pre-chamber and thus elevates the pressure there to help restore the imbalance to a level that the gun can tolerate."

I supposed that valve was for that purpose but I needed your opinion.

Your gun must be the later version, although the same diagrammatic shapes have been used the two diagrams differ in the arrangement of the component parts on the page and the fact that the total number of "O" rings has been reduced in the later "Mirage" gun. It now appears from your photo that some new parts have been substituted, but they have not changed sufficiently to warrant redrafting their shapes on the later version's diagram. Next time I pull my "Mirage" apart I will photograph that bulkhead, right now I am relying on my memory of about 10 years ago when I gave up on continually repairing it, but at first glance I did not recognize anything in your photo except for the two ball valve positions.

 

[tromic]

From this Mirage example, one can see the advantage of vacuum barrel over the wet barrel. Instead of pumping the gun to 40 bar with 13 mm piston - like Mirage have, it is sufficient 32 bar for 8 mm shaft or only 25 bar for 7 mm shaft, for outstanding performance! I like the idea of Mirage design - just as genius idea, but I would rather use regular simple design gun - with vacuum barrel, eventually using Easy Loader to load gun on high pressure. That gun on 40 bar would require 54 kg direct loading effort. On 40 bar loading using the lower barrel, also require 32 kg loading effort for the first pumping stroke.

 

[poildeq]

Nothing like reading 2 experts debate love it guys

 

[popgun pete]

The Mares "Mirage" would have been more time consuming to manufacture and assemble than a standard pneumatic speargun with the additional components and seals required. It would probably not be profitable for manufacturers to produce something like that today unless they could charge a much higher price for it and even then it would be a niche model. I have no idea what the total production numbers were in the past, however thanks to this thread we now know that Mares had at least two production versions with some updates incorporated in the later version which also added the longer 100 cm model to the existing 80 cm model. Whether there was a gap in "Mirage" production or the updated guns immediately followed on from the earlier version is something that perhaps someone else can tell us. What I do know is that David Way in his book "The Spearfisherman's Handbook" (published in 1981) mentions the "Mirage" as being only available as an 80 cm model (on page 34), although his introduction to this book is dated 1979. A rather beat up "Mirage" is shown in one of the grouped speargun photos in this well written book for practitioners of the sport in colder waters.

The serial number stamped into the butt of my "Mirage" gun is "67787". It is an early production gun as it still has the original 3 rubber seal main piston, whereas the parts diagram for the gun shows the forward conical seal on that piston had been replaced by a plastic guide collar when they actually printed the instructions. Maybe other "Mirage" owners could check their serial numbers and we could estimate how many have been made by comparing them.

 

[tromic]

The Mares "Mirage" would have been more time consuming to manufacture and assemble than a standard pneumatic speargun with the additional components and seals required. It would probably not be profitable for manufacturers to produce something like that today unless they could charge a much higher price for it and even then it would be a niche model. I have no idea what the total production numbers were in the past, however thanks to this thread we now know that Mares had at least two production versions with some updates incorporated in the later version which also added the longer 100 cm model to the existing 80 cm model. Whether there was a gap in "Mirage" production or the updated guns immediately followed on from the earlier version is something that perhaps someone else can tell us. What I do know is that David Way in his book "The Spearfisherman's Handbook" (published in 1981) mentions the "Mirage" as being only available as an 80 cm model (on page 34), although his introduction to this book is dated 1979. A rather beat up "Mirage" is shown in one of the grouped speargun photos in this well written book for practitioners of the sport in colder waters.

The serial number stamped into the butt of my "Mirage" gun is "67787". It is an early production gun as it still has the original 3 rubber seal main piston, whereas the parts diagram for the gun shows the forward conical seal on that piston had been replaced by a plastic guide collar when they actually printed the instructions. Maybe other "Mirage" owners could check their serial numbers and we could estimate how many have been made by comparing them.

This was a s/n on the gun I had in my hand:
67919278

 

[popgun pete]

I think that "67" at the front of the serial number is a model number, the rest may be the serial number. However we need a few more "Mirage" serial numbers to work it out as I don't think that Mares made 919,278 of these guns by the time that they made your gun. Most likely the revised gun added another digit to the model number and maybe another number was added for the gun length as well.

My old "Sten" has serial number "40093" and I think the "4" is a model number. My oldest "Miniministen" serial number starts with a "6" (63560).

 

[zmajmr]

Here is Mares Mirage in parts and TombaF7 made for it

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72ENya26r7w]YouTube - ‪Mares Mirage & TombaF7‬‏[/ame]

 

[zmajmr]

Here is Mares Mirage in parts and TombaF7 made for it

YouTube - ‪Mares Mirage & TombaF7‬‏

[ame=http://youtu.be/zY9NbiMaoag]Mares Mirage "free shaft" - YouTube[/ame]

 

[popgun pete]

Next time I pull my "Mirage" apart I will photograph that bulkhead, right now I am relying on my memory of about 10 years ago when I gave up on continually repairing it, but at first glance I did not recognize anything in your photo except for the two ball valve positions.

It is a long time later, but compare this photo with the one taken by Tromic on the previous page.

Only one alignment peg and no rear well or window, just a small step in the power regulator bulkhead's transfer port. I probably first examined this gun about 30 years ago when I had to repair it from new as oil leaked out of nearly every joint, after that it was just repairs on the power regulator which developed leaks after not being used for a long period.

More info here: https://forums.deeperblue.com/threads/renovating-and-modifying-a-mares-mirage.102586/

 

[Diving Gecko]

Yes, yours do look different- mine is like Tromic's.
(Mine is a white handle AMF/Mares model)

View attachment 40097

 

[popgun pete]

Thanks for the detail photos, I can see the alignment pegs are plastic, whereas in Tromic's photo the dimple on the end made me wonder if they were metal pegs, or at least for one of them. The length of the regulator block cylinder is 18 mm in my gun, how thick is this version? It looks like the recess or well in the rear provides a small pre-chamber, whereas in my gun there is nothing but the voids in the rear handle due to the regulator block having a flat rear face.

On the front face of my gun's regulator block there is a kidney shaped recess that tapers back to the transfer port, you can just see it in my photos on the other thread that you created a few days ago. This kidney-shaped recess is illustrated on the parts diagram. I always thought that internal airflow in the "Mirage" was somewhat compromised, however these later changes appear to have improved that aspect. I found the gun to be unreliable as reloading effort was not always predictable, so I used the pumping barrel nearly every time I loaded it. With the regulator set at position #1 and muzzle loading via the main barrel the pumping barrel rubber sleeve and ball valves operate as the gun's non-return valve.

 

[Jegwan]

Yes, yours do look different- mine is like Tromic's.
(Mine is a white handle AMF/Mares model)

It's not that it makes much difference, but I believe that the later version with white trigger/loading "beak" and the threaded air valve was made by Mares after the AMF area - using the same molds or leftovers for the handle parts and nose cone including the Marest/AMF logo.

The AMF/Mares production guns has the serial number stamped in the handle bottom plate. The "Mares-only" versions don't have that.

There are to my knowledge at least two generations of the Mirage gun design.

The oldest Mares/AMF have double "O"-rings at the inner barrels and nose cone, the flat/solid power regulator bulkhead, slightly thicker outer barrel (40,4mm), asymmetric power selector knob, bayonet air inlet valve and steel pistons.

The later Mares have single "O"-rings at the inner barrels and nose cone, the hollow/well power regulator bulkhead, standard 40mm outer barrel, symmetric power selector knob, threaded air inlet valve and nylon pistons.

It's likely that there is one Mares/AMF version between the two with the single "O"ring design.

Jégwan

 

[Jegwan]

Here's the the full Mares/AMF manual for the version "between" and the later Mares only manual.

Thanks to Diving Gecko for putting each manual's pages together into single pdf documents

Jégwan

 

[popgun pete]

Interesting to read these later manuals, they draw on much of the material used in the original "Mirage" document, but expand on the use of the pumping barrel/power regulator system in a way that was never explained before. I have scanned the original document, however it needs to be put into an Acrobat pdf file to reduce the file size. Once that is done I will post it here. When you read it you will understand why the "Mirage" was not that well understood by its users in terms of the quirky aspects of the power regulation system, and that included me until I began to work it out for myself. It is all spelt out in these later versions, but some things are still slightly misleading as what they say is open to interpretation and I will discuss this further once you get a chance to read the original.

 

[Diving Gecko]

Thanks for the detail photos, I can see the alignment pegs are plastic, whereas in Tromic's photo the dimple on the end made me wonder if they were metal pegs, or at least for one of them. The length of the regulator block cylinder is 18 mm in my gun, how thick is this version?

 

[Diving Gecko]

Thanks for the detail photos, I can see the alignment pegs are plastic, whereas in Tromic's photo the dimple on the end made me wonder if they were metal pegs, or at least for one of them.

I'm pretty sure Tromic's is plastic too. I think the dimple is just a leftover from either a vent or injection hole from the plastic moulding process

 

[popgun pete]

Yes, I realized it was not a metal pin once I saw the later images with different lighting of the component for the photos. The revised bulkhead is about 11 mm longer, hence the rear well in the bulkhead has some volume, but still less than say a "Sten" pre-chamber. The lower pumping barrel must be that much shorter to accommodate the extra length added to the bulkhead.