Question Mask sucking in to face

[Sdoth Yum]

I've read the posts on this topic but remain unconvinced. The phenomenon occurs after some time with shallow dives (2-4m) and swimming (~1h) but without noticeable fatigue or exertion. It happens on the surface, so is not the 'mask squeeze' of scuba diving. It sometimes is accompanied with a kind of "knocking" sound as pulses of air are sucked into the nose. BUT - the air sucked in has nothing to do with lungs or breathing, which continues regularly, and it is unrelated to inhalation or exhalation and does not affect it in any way.
Lacking the expertise of an Ear, Nose and Throat physician, I can only surmise that the sucking somehow comes from the skull spaces, likely sinuses, I have no inkling of how it is possible.
The fact that it occurs after a long time has naught to do with fatigue - it might be due to sea water vapours from snorkel breathing possibly liquifying sinus mucus - how this creates a vacuum in the skull is beyond me.
It reminds me of sucking in air thru' the nose by sucking in back of oral cavity/upper throat that makes a snort, like when kids with a runny nose suck up the snot in it, except that that can't be done while breathing, but mask suck occurs while breathing.
After some time, when the mask is really tight, suction stops, probably because of pressure equalisation between mask and skull spaces. Releasing air into the mask, as others have observed, is only a short-lived solution, but is good enough, the whole thing is not a major problem, one exhales into the mask anyway to clear water now and again.
In sum, it's an interesting phenomenon, and I wonder if there are some good explanations out there.

 

[7BDiver]

If you suck the mask in with your nose and close the soft palate wouldn't it maintain a suction as long as the mask seals well?

 

[Sdoth Yum]

If you suck the mask in with your nose and close the soft palate wouldn't it maintain a suction as long as the mask seals well?

Not sure I quite understand. One can certainly do that in a dive, but with the soft palate closed you can't breathe on the surface where the main problem is.
Interesting question whether the pulsed suction continues with closed s palate. If it does, it seems to disconnect the nasal suction from breathing, which I suspect anyway....although, again, how on earth can the sinuses suck in - can a vacuum develop there somehow? Has anyone notice whether it happens if we just swim with the mask for a long time with dives?

 

[7BDiver]

If you suck the air from your mask in with your nose and keep the soft palate closed, air will not be able to return to the mask to inflate it again. When you breath in through your mouth there is always some negative pressure which brings in the air, the nose will also try to draw air at the same. The more the mouth is closed the more the nose will have to draw air due to the negative pressure. So if you are dominantly trying to breath with you nose on the surface you will suck your mask in, if the soft palate is not relaxed it will stay sucked in. If you have plugged sinuses they will be slow to let the mask equalize a pressure difference.
The next issue to contend with is the mask itself. For instance on a deep dive if you don't equalize a mask until it is crammed onto your face you may not be able to get air from the nose pocket to the cavity for the eyes and air for equalizing just gets pushed out of the mask. So, if your nose pocket is tight around your nose it will likely let air get pulled out of the eyes sockets but not let it back in.

 

[Bill McIntyre]

My initial reaction is "how would you even notice?" After multiple dives to 2 to 4 meters I would have equalized pressure so many times and maybe blown water out of my mask so many times that I probably exhaled into the mask as necessary without even being conscious of doing it.

 

[Sdoth Yum]

If you suck the air from your mask in with your nose and keep the soft palate closed, air will not be able to return to the mask to inflate it again. When you breath in through your mouth there is always some negative pressure which brings in the air, the nose will also try to draw air at the same. The more the mouth is closed the more the nose will have to draw air due to the negative pressure. So if you are dominantly trying to breath with you nose on the surface you will suck your mask in, if the soft palate is not relaxed it will stay sucked in. If you have plugged sinuses they will be slow to let the mask equalize a pressure difference.
The next issue to contend with is the mask itself. For instance on a deep dive if you don't equalize a mask until it is crammed onto your face you may not be able to get air from the nose pocket to the cavity for the eyes and air for equalizing just gets pushed out of the mask. So, if your nose pocket is tight around your nose it will likely let air get pulled out of the eyes sockets but not let it back in.

1. There is no connection between mask sucking in on the surface and mask pressing in by outside pressure on a dive. These are totally different phenomena even tho' the effect seems similar.
2. The phenomenon of the mask sucking in is pulsed, often accompanied by nasal sounds, clicks, or brief snore-like sounds.
3. It is totally dissociated from breathing, occurs whether inhaling, exhaling, or not breathing at all.
4. Inhaling is far to weak a negative pressure to suck the mask in - another reason why it has naught to do with breathing.
5. For the same reasons is is not related to voluntary closing of soft palate - that can't be done while breathing at the same time whereas pulsed mask suck-in occurs during breathing too.

The mystery of the mechanism remains.

 

[stick500]

Whether I am on scuba or free Diving, I think I am constantly exhaling a little bit of air out my nose all the time to keep the mask from getting tight. Little bubbles escape, but that’s not a problem. Of course you have to have a good set up for anti-fog and all I use is toothpaste! Traditional white stuff, not the gel. Cheap and easy, but I make sure I put it on before every dive even on the same day

 

[Mr. X]

Could it be due to skull temperature dropping? E.g air in sinuses shrinking as head enters cold water?

 

[Sdoth Yum]

Could it be due to skull temperature dropping? E.g air in sinuses shrinking as head enters cold water?

Interesting idea! Need to observe whether occurence is reduced in warm water.

 

[Jerry.brosnanatyahoo.com]

1. There is no connection between mask sucking in on the surface and mask pressing in by outside pressure on a dive. These are totally different phenomena even tho' the effect seems similar.
2. The phenomenon of the mask sucking in is pulsed, often accompanied by nasal sounds, clicks, or brief snore-like sounds.
3. It is totally dissociated from breathing, occurs whether inhaling, exhaling, or not breathing at all.
4. Inhaling is far to weak a negative pressure to suck the mask in - another reason why it has naught to do with breathing.
5. For the same reasons is is not related to voluntary closing of soft palate - that can't be done while breathing at the same time whereas pulsed mask suck-in occurs during breathing too.

The mystery of the mechanism remains.

 

[Jerry.brosnanatyahoo.com]

Hello Sdoth! I am on vacation in the carbbean from biston mass USA. I am diving daily but having same issue you described when snorkelling only. After snorkeling over an hour, for some unknown reason when inhale slowly into my mouth, i hear a gurgling sound in the back of my throat and instead if getting air from my mouth, my bidy attempts to ONLY get the air from my nose which causes my mask sucking inyo my face extremely hard. Inevitably whatever is hapoenning in my throat allows air to “gurgle” into my lungs. Its actualky a little painful sometimes In the throat. I do exhale out my nise to relieve the mask pressure, but my next inhale causes the stupid same results. my body attempts to get air only from nose until the face mask squeezes so hard that inevitably i get some air from mouth.
i. Somewhere in my throat the passage to mouth is getting stuck.
have you been abke to find a good solution yet? Please advise. Thank you for your time!

 

[Mr Jo]

Hello,
have the same experience with sucking of the mask to the face after swimming long distances with mask, snorkel and fins. Almost everytime when having done around 2 kilometers of swimming in open sea it suddenly starts. Venting the mask through the nose like in deep diving doesn't help because with the next breath it will be the same. Water temperature usually above 25°C, so it does also accur in warm water. It's not a major problem but anoying. I'm glad you brought up the topic because until now I thought it's just my personal problem. In my case the phaenomenon seams to be connected to long duration swimming at a moderate but continous pace. Maybe there are more long distance swimmers here who have experienced the same...

 

[Jerry.brosnanatyahoo.com]

Hello,
have the same experience with sucking of the mask to the face after swimming long distances with mask, snorkel and fins. Almost everytime when having done around 2 kilometers of swimming in open sea it suddenly starts. Venting the mask through the nose like in deep diving doesn't help because with the next breath it will be the same. Water temperature usually above 25°C, so it does also accur in warm water. It's not a major problem but anoying. I'm glad you brought up the topic because until now I thought it's just my personal problem. In my case the phaenomenon seams to be connected to long duration swimming at a moderate but continous pace. Maybe there are more long distance swimmers here who have experienced the same...

As stated above, my issue occurs after one hour of snorkeling. The issue is somewhere in back if throat. I wish we could find a solution. Once it occurs, it will not stop and i usually quit my snorkeling. Although when i go back in an hour, it is not doing it anymore. But wait an hour
This never occurs w diving. And i have over 500 dives. The issue only occurs when snorkeling. It feels like something is sticking in back if throat. (Please don't be gross w comments )

Sticky palate could be culprit. But how do i stop it?