More Fun In Cold Water!

[Fondueset]

A long dive today. The day started out clear but a steady wind out of the southwest brought an unwelcome arc of overcast. I continued my search for the winter haunts of our local denizens; which means long swims and deeper dives than I'm used to.

After 30 or 40 minutes I arrived over an area that looked promising. Bad lighting and mediocre visibility for this time of year, 15-22 meters, made it impossible to make out any fish from the surface; leaving the advantage with them. My first dive in that spot left me pleased and dismayed with many puffs of sediment, some quite large, and a pair of suckers who decided not to bother. On the next one I could just make out the bright ventral fins of a few bass, maybe 40 feet off in the dark haze. Given the amount of fish sign I figured this was probably a pretty good area. I tried to more or less hold station against the growing wind and waves during a longer breathe-up. Next dive revealed empty space where the bass had been, but as I turned there were thirty or more closing in and in their midst; a beautiful Walleye. Unfortunately a small but out of synch fin movement on my part spooked it before it came all the way in.

After a few more dives with plenty of bass but no walleye return I could feel the chill making me sloppy and, regrettably, decided to make the long swim back. On the way I did a few random dives and on one spotted a leviathan burbot. It was evidently sleeping off a large meal and I was able to do a couple of dives before giving up due to all the sediment I kicked up. This time of year the stuff just hangs and hangs.

A good twenty more minutes to shore against the wind - then the interesting experience of driving and then taking off my suit with very little finger strength!

 

[argus66]

your pictures are amazing i had no idea water in lake michigan was so clear, i mean it liooks lke the tropics. good job

 

[Adrian]

Very nice pictures Chris, looks quite mysterious.

 

[Pinggene]

Fondueset,

I'm on the other side of the big pond, & hope to do some spearfishing over here. Is there any structure or environment you find that holds perch or carp more than others?

Thanks.

Gene

 

[Fondueset]

During the temperate season the carp here are very mobile. They mostly cruise fast in pods of 4-8 at mid-depth. In spring they can be aggressive! now they are mostly resting and feeding on the bottom - very skittish. They don't seem to associate themselves with any structures or specific territories but will cruise breakwalls and rocky structures on a fairly regular basis. Perch here (yellow perch) are more inclined to hang around wrecks, breakwalls, weeds and any place they can find food and shelter. I mostly dive out in the open or along a breakwall here. Perch are known to prefer weedbeds and their markings are designed for that kind of environment. I mostly see young ones along the breakwall - in winter they move out deeper but I haven't encountered them yet.

Short answer is; Rock breakwalls are good

In terms of approaching. I'm mostly photographing these species so I need to get really close. In my experience it is very rare than any fish will let you approach it - I normally try to get into their area, dive in a non-threatening way (never toward them!) then wait for them to come it. For spearfishing you can line up and put on a surge to get close for the shot but with photography I need them to come in closer than spear range.

 

[Old Man Dave]

Nice pic's and very interesting report. Love DB for the fact that you can read about diving that is sooooo different from the diving that I do.

If I may ask a few questions; What is the water temp? What sort of suit are you using and what camera gear to take such excellent shots? Also how deep is deeper than usual?

Thanks

Dave

PS I dived yesterday as well. http://forums.deeperblue.net/624753-post1670.html

 

[Fondueset]

Sure - current water temp is about 3c. I'm using my new Elios 6 mil smoothskin out/opencell ('new black') in (see my raving review elsewhere) and 6 mil nylon out, open('new black') in pants. 5 mil omer boots and 6 mil 3 finger mitts.

Canon S80 - this dark time of year I have it set to manual mode F3.2, ISO100 shutter 1/80.

I don't have a depth guage but I think I'm approaching 20 meters. I'm diving a long bay off of Lake Michigan. During the warmer part of the season I stay close to shore due to boat traffic - which keeps me in 10-12 meters

 

[Fondueset]

Stalking the elusive Walleye!

Ever since I first spotted Walleye this winter - see start of this thread - I've been trying to find them. A couple of weeks ago I dove a new area about 1/4 mile East of my usual spot. Here I found a dropoff only 200 meters from shore. The local scubies say it goes down to about 35 meters. As I swam along on the edge i encountered a very large school of bass in one particular spot. I was getting cold and resolved to check the length of the dropoff out next time. Last Weds. I got in again - air temp was 24F (-4.5C) with very strong winds out of the south. I struggled against my float for most of the dive. The wind actually blew the flag off and the float was starting to ice up. I swam along the dropoff to the mouth of a local river - about 1/3 mile from my point of entry. Made a few deep dives (for me) but all I saw was a lone carp with a Lamprey.

On the way back I found an area littered with lumber from the days when this was a logging port. I was getting pretty cold but the area felt 'fishy' to me. I followed the feeling out into deeper water and once again found the bass - with a couple of large walleye mixed in. By then I was shaking from the cold and my times were crap. The swim back was an intense workout against the wind.

Yesterday was overcast, snowing and about -4c but almost no wind. The snow was mostly lake effect, and the overcast not heavy, so it was fairly bright out despite no sun. On a whim I went in again and swam directly to the area I'd found earlier in the week. I could actually see Walleye from the surface and had several very nice dives. There were bass, Walleye, suckers and even a Lake Trout or two. The Walleye were all in the 70-80 cm range and some of the larger ones were very bold. I was careful not to surface abruptly and they stayed around the whole time. This time last year I was resigned to seeing no fish for the entire winter! (be sure and zoom in on the pics after you enlarge them - you'll get a little magnifying glass icon when you move the mouse off of them, then back on again )

 

[Old Man Dave]

Great pic's. Can see from your post that my excuse for not using my new camera yet is that it's too cold would not cut the ice with you either metaphorically or in your case literally. Keep up the good work. I'm inspired.

Dave

 

[island_sands]

Great pictures always. Would love the chance to dive freshwater sometime. Not much chance in this part of the world!

 

[Fondueset]

Great pictures always. Would love the chance to dive freshwater sometime. Not much chance in this part of the world!

Thanks Island_Sands,

Must be rough The water here is about as cold as it can get legally (according to the laws of physics) but its amazing what a non-factor that becomes once my face adjusts and I start looking around. The feeling after a cold dive is awesome. Yesterday there was a big freighter in the bay. The low thrum of it's props evoked a sense of vast space and mystery. I kept expecting to see some haunted U-boat looming up out of the blue depths.

Dave,

You should take a run at it - I don't know if you get the trade off in visibility that we do but I'll bet the water never gets all that cold over there either. Just bring a windbreaker for when you get out - unless you've got a smoothskin-out suit.

 

[spaghetti]

The Walleye is very similar to a fish we have in our Alpine lakes: we call it Sandra (the male ones too, ha ha ha) or Lucioperca (literally means "pike-perch"). Good to eat and shy to hunt (but I think this depends on their awareness of the fact that they could be hunted: in smaller lakes where spearing is forbidden, they let you swim near them, or come close with no fear).
Now my question for you freeze divers is the following: cold. I do dive comfortably on cold winter days with my taylor made open cell scafander. But it's when I get out of water and undress that the trouble starts. I tried undressing in the car, in telephone cabins, in the bathroom of bars and restaurants (not yet dug holes in the ground) but all of these have downsides, and still freaking cold. Any tips or suggestions?

 

[Fondueset]

Hi Spaghetti,

Nice quiet weekend here - time for the web My top is smoothskin - which means I pretty much start warming up when I get out. What I do is put plastic on the seat and drive home in my wetsuit. By the time I get home I'm still a little cold but not bad at all. If your suit is nylon out - then put on a windbreaker (light jacket - stops wind) as soon as you get out - maybe some warm-up type pants too - it's the air that makes you really cold if your suit has fabric on the outside - because heat is taken away as it dries. (same during breathe-ups)
The Walleye I saw (Pike-perch - exactly!) were moderately wary. Not careful and fast moving like Lake Trout - but not friendly like bass either. I had to remain motionless and get close to the bottom - then wait while they swam toward me from far away. I think they are difficult enough that I would not feel bad hunting them (also very good to eat!).

I was talking to Mark Labocetta about spearguns - he kept telling me I need to get closer to the fish. I told him 'I don't want to shoot fish I can get close to; I want to take pictures of them!' I have been having a great time picking a species for a subject, learning their ways and getting close-ups of them.

 

[spaghetti]

I hope this thread will stay on topic (cold an fun), but you made more and more interesting points.
1- cold. Plastic on the car seat! I was so stupid not to think about this simple solution before, and always flooded my car. Seriously. A shame but that's it.
2- smoothskin: I used to wear them in summer for deeper hunting. But in general I'm a rock crawler and make a mess of smooth neoprene. (it's a problem of us mediterranean spearos: our favourite style will always be "a struscia panza", i-e. "belly crawling", which doesn't gather with smooth suits).
3- freshwater fish. I've been diving in lakes where you can't spearfish at all, and in others where you can shoot every species of fish. In the second ones it's very hard to get close even to pikes (who generally feel very self assured) and to black bass (which are easier where they're protected by no-spear regulations). I'm sure that fishes can learn form experience and share the knowledge in their "community". The only ones who will never learn the lesson are eels, because they blindly rely on their hidings and never try to escape. The only difficulty is to find them because they hide very well indeed. (BTW: no eels in your lake? You never mention them). But I may add one more thing: you (and I mean you: Fondueset) get so close to your Wisconsin fishes not only because they are confident creatures, but also because you're a good diver, skilled, experience and with empathy for the water environment. I don't think that a rude noisy diver could ever take fish pictures like yours.
4-getting close. I partly agree with Mark about a general concept of getting close, but still don't think it's your case. In my country we all tell the young newbies to start spearfishing with short guns (50 to 70centimeters max), so they MUST learn quickly how to get close to the fish. Which means: knowing the behaviour of species, diving with a smooth aquaticity, be silent and unnoticed: these qualities will help in any future spearfishing experience.

 

[Fondueset]

Thanks Spaghetti,

I very much enjoy the art of moving in water with minimal disturbance.

Michigan (the state that is shaped like a mitten) - but close enough
Lake Trout have been the most fun to sneak up on. They want to stay on the edge of visibility - which is usually at least 35 feet - mostly more. Really most of the species here - in open water - require a little skill. You have to have a feeling of how they see you. I inland lakes it is much easier.

I never even saw a freshwater drum until two years ago! In fact many people here don't even know what they are. These are the first big walleye I've seen - they are not so skittish as the trout - but will not come in close unless you are still and low. They will leave the area for awhile if you spook them. Next I want to try for some even closer shots - maybe from underneath.

In winter all the fish move out into deeper waters and are less likely to approach - even if you do find them.

The closest we have to eels are Burbot - they seem to just hide under things and also stay fairly deep - at least 12-15 meters. So it is hard to find them. Too easy once you do though - very interesting looking for pictures.

The open water Walleye are careful enough that it feels like hunting to get close to them. With Trout and many other species the big one's are the bravest but, even if it were legal, I would not spear the largest of any long-lived species. The trout are allways in motion and move quickly. If you alarm them they move to another area. there are lucky chances - but usually you have to allready be in their path, motionless and best with a little cover - then wait. Even slowly raising the camera can make them vanish. Sometimes, If they see you go down behind a large object that is between you and them - they seem to find it interesting.


On my suit I use nylon out pants with knee-pads. I also have an Omer weight vest that gives some protection - but I often lay on the bottom, which is mostly covered with very sharp mussels. So far no problems with the smooth top. Elios has a textured/smooth out top that is supposed to be a little more durable.

For my first gun I bought a Riffe MT0 - it is only 32 inches long. I've made it so it will shoot at least 12 feet though - I want to catch the fish I want - not the one I can get closest to There are other species here that I've rarely seen - whitefish, cisco etc. - all supposed to be very quick and wary. The Salmon in open water have no interest at all - if they see you they avoid you. no curiosity.

 

[Jon]

Chris,

I've had schools of salmon follow me around when scuba diving with a scooter in Lake Michigan. I was running a search pattern and they we either attracted to the noise of the scooter or the electical impulse it was putting out.

We used to get huge schools of giant perch on some of the wrecks in years past, but they have mostly died off by now.

With the greatly improved vis one of the cooler things that I have seen are large schools of aelwives that look just like an ocean baitball. Sometimes you even get to see the salmon circling around them and dash in for a quick lunch.

Inside the breakwalls we see lots of walleye, rockbass, pike and even musky; but, I have never seen these out in deeper water on the wrecks we dive.

Jon

 

[Fondueset]

I think it's mostly winter they move out into the deeper water - though I've heard they do it again in summer because they like it cool. I once got into the middle of a huge school of alewives. They formed a ball around me and blotted out every thing. I've also seen a school of Gizzard shad - that was pretty cool because they are so big - yet there were probably 100 of them.

I've only been back at freediving for going on 3 years now after decades of only very occasional dives so I'm still getting the lay of the land. I didn't notice near as much when I was a kid - but we also had a fraction of the visibility.

 

[island_sands]

Fondue

I know what you mean about an eerie feeling - when i was younger i used dive down in the pool at home and start the imagination... i had crocs, sharks, submarines, and barbie dolls rofl sometimes i used to scare myself right out of the pool! rofl

That cold feeling on the face, it is awesome, i never thought i'd enjoy that but it makes you feel alive.

 

[JPPLAY]

Fonduest I am mainly a freshwater spearfisherman in Western Canada you may notice when you take a gun into the water that the fish will be more wary. Fish seem to be able to pick up when spearfisherman are on the hunt. I think some of the best spearfisherman can appear to the fish not to be hunting more then the rest of us.
Try looking for whitefish in more shallow water as in the winter they go very shallow around 5 to 8 ft here. In spring time and fall they are also shallow but go deep in the summer. I have shot them around large structure.
It intresting that you have weary Walleye as here they are rather curious and are easy to approach even with a speargun. I have heard though that it could be because of the clear water as they are normally not a clear water fish. Would make it fun to hunt them then.

 

[Old Man Dave]

A lot of experienced divers/spearo's will agree that fish seem to sense when you are armed. When on scuba armed with a handspear for flatfish I frequently get shoals of prime bass swim close up despite noisy bubbles etc. However no matter how stealthy you are when freediving with a gun the bass are always wary. It isn't just the scuba either 'cause grab a camera not a gun when freediving and you can get some close encounters.

Having noticed this over the years i've thought on it a bit. I reckon it's your body language. With gun you instinctively act aggressively, you can't help it, and this scares the fish. So if this is right maybe top spearo's can supress their natural movements and attitude to make themselves appear less threatening. Interesting idea!

Dave