Moving past 75 meters

One more thing: When training semi-long or long dives (long for you) make sure you get a nice rest minutes before... For me that is 5-10 minutes to regenerate and get "hungry" again... Especially relax rigth before start, no moving around, being tense etc. Start the dive peacefull and smooth, and stay cool/soft in your mind as long as you can... Personally, once DR has kicked in, I release the brake and speed up (but I think the trick is to wait as long as possible with that, for the long distances... just staying cool...).

I'll post my answer from a PM, because it relates to this thread, an perhaps someone will find it usefull:

HI baiyoke, you made a comment in "past 75..." thread about "increasing comfort zone" works better for most people than learning to funktion through "overwhelment in training"...at least in freediving.
Can you describe to me in short what experiences make you believe this?

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Well I can, but mostly in anecdotal terms. I just think that what we play with (freediving) is dealing with very, very potent feelings... Some of them relates to the bodys reaction to "drowning" and "suffocation"... And can be highly negative... I think the main objective for beginners and early intermediate divers is to create positive feelings about breath hold, contractions and the negative feelings... Basicaly we need to develop as freedivers with our motivation intact, we need to "have fun"... Because you simply can't do freediving if not having fun... It is too strong, it will beat you up because of the negative feelings... So we need to build a base of relative comfort, before we can really push ourselves further into the dives... Because if we have a good, fun base we can allways go back to that for motivation, or on a bad day, we can still do that kind of diving...

I've pushed myself a few times over weeks or months, with good results, but both times it has come back as lack of motivation, and not feeling "hungry" about diving...

I've met a guy who did 200m DYN within the first 1½-2 years of training. Fantastic talent and spirit. However, now that his not in shape for long dives (he's quite busy with work and family) he bails out at 60m on long attempts... I think he pushed it before, and going back to that space of intense psychoogical pushing, is not something his mind wants to do...

I met a national recordholder (still holding) who doesn't train anymore, despite that she still like to be in water and play around. But competitive freedive training took her motivation. She developed too quickly, and became a champion within a year I think. Too much, too fast I think...

I've seen beginners, my self included, being able too push dives really far, and I believe it's something that is seen especially if people have talent for time/distance/depth, and then gets complitely focused very early on... It might be ok, but it might very well backfire and beat you up mentally... Just like overtraining... I've tried it twice, and I need to balance the pushing with the fun to stay motivated, that's for sure... It's a fine balance when doing competitive freediving also...

Fantastic commentary everyone...

It's about time for an update I think...

Good job man!!
Especially with short fins!!!


With me, 100m was a big mental milestone... That to me is what my mentor divers were doing... But once I got there, I realized that I could have easily done 125+, so did that on my next comp / max attempt.

Btw, I don't do max-attempts in training - and rarely even do more than 50m in training.

Once I got beyond 125m, I knew I could do at least 150m... So went for that point and turned and gave it a bit more...

Even still, I don't know where my limits are, because I did some things poorly on my last long dive and conditions weren't ideal and I KNOW I have lots more available... Plus I continue to train!

Bottom line: as long as you have proper safeties / dive buddies in the water with you and have your head in the game to go for the next "benchmark", just listen to your body and give it a shot... You might surprise yourself.

Dive safe and it helps to have someone video you so that you can analyze your performance later and figure out what to work on next.

Congrats!!

anthropisces said:

...it doesn't seem like a stretch now to consider turning and pursuing 125. I suppose that's my next thread; moving past 100.

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Here is an update from me. (you may have to re-read the entire thread, or have a great memory, to get it).

1. I can now do almost unlimited 100m swims (in a 25m pool) with no samba at all. Fully equipped, but dodgy (mask and crappy weighbelt). I though of my discussion/doubts with Mullins back in this thread when I nailed it.

2. I have been hitting the gym a lot, 3/4 times a week, and cycle 5 days week. No bad effects on breathold noticed.

3. Lots of abs, crazy abs: my non-packed VC has decreased from 6.5 to 6.15l, I imagine due to me getting older (now 46...) and the increased muscle down there.

4. Contractions seem "lighter" now than before, much less disturbing, again, I assume due to increased ab muscle.

5. I still have lost my no-warm up relfex. The first 100m (no warm up) feels exactly like the 6th. Bummer.

6. Smashed my old PB a few weeks ago, small samba.

7. Big (HUGE) huge leap was buying and trying to learn monofin. 3 months in now. Still suck.

azapa said:

5. I still have lost my no-warm up relfex. The first 100m (no warm up) feels exactly like the 6th. Bummer.

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Azapa, is there anyway that you can measure HR on some of these swims, ie 1st no WU vs 6th swim? I know it can be awkward, I've used a pulse ox on my finger with a plastic bag duct taped around my entire hand. It would be interesting to correlate the feeling (or lack of feeling in this case) against something measureable.

Congrats on the progress, BTW!

Apaza, perhaps ask Aharon Solomons on his webinar about why people can loose their no warm-up reflex, and how to regain it?

Lance: thanks, I might try that. I saw a Meridian the other day at the pool, just need to find out who bought it and get the polar try sensor.

Kars" Eric Fattah told me he had seen it "wear off" as well. I just think I have done it too much in the past 3 years. Twice a week for three years I would start my training with a longish swim (75 DNF for example). My body now simply expects it, and does not react. I have tried stopping this for a while, but even after 6 months or so it does not return like it used to.

All I know is I start the dive, it feels fine, then in starts to suck, then I think the dive is gonna be a disaster, then it sucks some more, then I feel like I'm doing OK, and then it sucks so much I really don't have anything to think about.

thats just my problem: no warm up dives don't feel awful any more. No early contractions, no huge bloodshift (my legs would get this emptying feeling). Maybe I just need to swim further....

I am not an experienced diver nor do I have the scientific understanding of how the human body works. I swim until I'm hypoxic, and then when I think I'm close to blacking out I come up.

Simple minds like mine require simple strategies.

Azapa, have you tried doing an empty lung static until contractions and then do a slow dyn/dnf? The goal is to relax, and retain that during the swim. The goal is to have a very low bloodflow, and keep that low. Let us know how that feels. Maybe your experience is a confirmation that we need variation in freediving training, Or at least not wear out our DR.

azapa said:

thats just my problem: no warm up dives don't feel awful any more. No early contractions, no huge bloodshift (my legs would get this emptying feeling). Maybe I just need to swim further....

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That's why I think you should actually measure HR, to see if you are experiencing DR but just don't experience/feel it the same way anymore. In the past couple years I've spent a lot of time training with little doodads that measure O2 and HR, and I discovered that while certain hypoxic feelings are set in stone for me, other feelings are very subjective--the feelings vary even though my body may be on track with lowered metabolism, etc.