My first underwater photography try ... need help from experts!

[speareasy]

Well I stole my wife's G9 since she was not using it and bought an underwater Canon housing just in time for our trip to the Maldives. I took some practice shots in my home pool which seemed to be quite good, but unfortunately in the ocean things are different. First water is not so crystal clear so the built in flash KILLED me, I mean just absolutely KILLED ME !!! It kept highlighting all sort of particles near the lens. How do you fix that? I am thinking maybe you need 1 or 2 strobes way off to the sides to avoid that?

Another problem was colors as you go deeper. You really need to take photos in RAW to be able to adjust white balance in the comfort of your home PC. I found taking RAW with the G9 to be extremely cumbersome as you have to toggle a lot of buttons to adjust exposure, which can be difficult to do when you are freediving. I found it impossible to get nice crisp pictures due to movement and not being able to get a fast shutter speed, and AUTO simply doesn't allow RAW.

Also ISO 200 and above was very disappointing. I look forward to the G11 which is supposed to have a 2 or 3 stop improvement in ISO. With low light you need higher ISO to be able to take faster shutter speed exposures. This is especially critical in free diving where you are moving a lot. Also fish move a LOT MORE than I realized!

Anyway I managed some pictures but look forward to some advice which can improve my results. I used photoshop to clean up some pictures but removing all those highlighted stuff is a real pain. I am thinking about building an action in photoshop which would make this a lot easier. Maybe masking the subject first and then choosing the highlight area to patch with non highlighted areas. I put 2 pictures of the same subject (shark) to illustrate the problem. With the Mantaray I thought I had the most perfect shot with the baitfish parting and giving way to the giant. I was heartbroken when I saw that that the flash had highlighted a whole bunch of particles and ruined the picture. I might try to clone out the junk but I think the picture is ruined.

Apparently I can upload only 5 files. I will upload the remainder in another post.

 

[speareasy]

Here are some other pix.

 

[podge]

That’s some cracking photos you’ve taken there mate, well done. Got anymore?
Sorry I can’t help you with the tweaking of the underwater camera set up as photography isn’t my strong point but I would think that someone will chip in with a few pointers for you.

 

[Salehthefish]

Pictures are wonderful you have the fish at the middle of the pic and the colors are nice. I have attended during university underwater photography and we had it while scuba i think it will be much difficult to get your photo while freediving, thats why all what you have mentioned was not problem at all with scuba sdjusting and taking time in the shot etc... also we have studied thing about the white colored creatures which spoil the scene if you are taking shoot then you will see white points in your pictures(Those creatures are living in the sea and it is normal to have such shoot if they exist where you shot your pictures) the only way to remove that is by using the photoshop and you did excellent job in that. in deeper dives if you will use scuba you will need special light there to be able to get colorfull pictures since the colors will vanish gradually when you go deeper till you get everything in grey.

This is all what i have and excuse my poor memory becoz i took this course 7 years ago

All best in your next pictures

 

[whucash]

Really nice pics! I wouldn't say you have just started, the second part especially look very nice!

As for your questions..
1) The build in flash suck! Don't even turn it on, beacause it will definitely spoil your pics, its better not to use build in flash for the pics! And the conditions in your pics are awesome..check my pictures..sometimes the visibility is less than 5m.. As you said the best way is to have strobes far frome the lens but still, there can occur the lither spots, and its beacause the 'things' that swim in the water..

2) I have the same problem with the iso as you..anything higher than 200 is useless but it is the camera fault..i have Olympus Sp560uz and i cannot use higher iso..normally I use 100 and it isn't so bad..the ebst way is to have dslr

3) Yes, raw format is the ebst solution but if you are a the beggining of uw photography try just get comfortable with camera, with balancing in the water, the wright angles and then the troubles with raw format will go away believe me..just play with your camera and make as many pictures as possible

As for me i don't like changing the picture with photoshop because it takes the authentic picture away and they it starts to be just 'the end of work' not 'the art' this is my opinion..
And its really pleasure to see how your pictures are getting better and better every time!

 

[chrismar]

As for me i don't like changing the picture with photoshop because it takes the authentic picture away and they it starts to be just 'the end of work' not 'the art' this is my opinion..
And its really pleasure to see how your pictures are getting better and better every time!

Sorry, but I've got to disagree with this point of view.

Postprocessing an image is about getting back the feel of what you saw in the water at the time. It's why we alter white balance, change saturation and clarity, sharpen image to regain lost detail, burn and dodge to isolate the subject and even do spot removal for those flecks of sediment that detract from the feel of a photograph. Why is it that changing a photo over to B&W or even sepia is okay, but not altering colour or saturation? Photography IS art, it's all about feeling and emotion. I have no problem enhancing a photo to improve it and don't feel bad in doing so. The camera DOES NOT capture what our eyes and brain do. We are capable of processing a much greater dynamic range than even the best cameras, can isolate a subject or take in a wide vista and white balance our brains automatically. We even can selectively ignore parts of a scene that detract from it, like sediment. Don't get stuck into believing that postprocessing is wrong. Like all things it can be overdone, and there is no way of turning a fundamentally flawed image into a great one, but you simply cannot take truly stunning images without doing some work on them afterwards.

As for improving the technical aspect of your photography, you've isolated most of the key issues with underwater photography. The lack of light, in particular red and to a lesser extent green, makes shooting RAW and white-balancing after the fact a requirement. We're never in the same place long enough to shoot grey cards and set WB correctly, so we do what we can. Also you've noticed that the lack of light means slow shutter speeds or high ISOs. This is one of the big downsides of P&S cameras underwater, as they simply aren't capable of boosting ISO values cleanly like a DSLR. My D90 takes usable pics up to ISO 1600, with even 3200 possible if you do a lot of work after the fact. For your G9, I would suggest 400 is probably the upper limit of what's reasonable. Applications like Noise Ninja and Noiseware do a pretty good job of limiting the effect of grain in your photos without blurring detail.

For your problems with RAW & exposure, are you putting your camera in fully manual mode? I'm about 99% sure your camera will let you shoot RAW without fiddling if you put it in Av, Tv or P modes too. P is like AUTO for those that want to set some settings themselves (like RAW), Av is apeture priority, ie. you set an apeture and it picks an appropriate shutter speed, while Tv is shutter priority, essentially the inverse of Av. You're probably best for now in P mode.

To cover the question about strobes, they are a pain in the arse when freediving, but if you want to do macro work or just can't handle the noise from high ISOs, it's your only option. Make sure you get one that can do TTL metering and point it from as far away from the lens as possible. That should lessen the amount of 'snow' in your photos.

One last point: GET CLOSE! The less water between you and your subject, the better. The photos below were taken with a 180 degree fisheye lens, where I'm in serious danger of getting kicked if I got even a little bit closer.

Good luck!

 

[renepotvin]

Forget Photoshop, get Lightroom, you will never shoot jpg again.

I would not worry about the white balance on the camera if you shoot in raw. Do it on lightroom instead (do it in bulk in seconds).

The g11 is supposed to be good in high iso. I saw a iso 1600 picture that was quite acceptable taken with the g11.

 

[speareasy]

Taking RAW pictures with the G9 is very difficult while free diving. You have to push a left button and then two buttons on the right and left to adjust for example shutter speed. Then to adjust aperature speed you have to press another right button with a left button to do the switch shutter speed. As you can imagine that can be very difficult to do if you are diving down,then chasing or trying to get a good position ... all while holding your breath. Exposure changes dramatically as you go down since light drops very quickly.

The G11 is supposed to be much better but still not as good as even my much older 20D or 40D. I thought about using one of my older DSLR's but they don't have video and it would be nice to have video capability. I am not sure what is the best thing to do at the moment, but I am leaning to simply getting a pair of good strobes with long extension arms and keeping the G9 a little while longer. Maybe if I was doing a lot of underwater photography I would upgrade the camera.

 

[chrismar]

Did you read my note about Program mode? What you're describing is fully manual exposure mode. You don't need this just to shoot in RAW. Put the Program selector wheel to 'P', then you can set the image quality to RAW. You will not have to manually set the exposure.

 

[ReefTroll]

Those photos are amazing, some fantastic subjects there!!

 

[speareasy]

I managed to clean up two pictures that were damaged by back scatter. I am convinced that if I spend time on it I can pretty much get it to its original shape, but it will take tremendous amount of time. I especially like the one with the giant manta because it was really majestic how the baitfish would part to allow it to pass through. I would intercept it and stop in front of it and it would continue like a train and like I didn't even exist. In one case I was so close I had to push off it and let it pass under me. I wish all of you here could have experienced that, it was really a one of a kind experience.

As for RAW and picture processing in PS, I think for underwater photography they go hand in had. The way I look at it is water gives you a graduated blue filter which you have to remove unless you are looking for that effect. And flash on the case backlit particles on the picture are similar to scratches or dust on a photo, they have no real benefit to the picture unless ofcourse that is the effect you want.

Thanks for the hint on the P mode, I just checked it and you are right it does take pictures in RAW. I had only tested AUTO and that does not take pictures in RAW. The only mode I ever use is MANUAL because I always like to have total control over exposure and shutter speed. I never trust the reading of a camera's sensor because if there is a little white or a little dark area, it can fool the sensor. I usually use my judgement in deciding how much extra or less to give the exposure, which in MANUAL is quite easy to do. The way I do it is I have center aperature reading and I will quickly test a few spots before I decide what to do. With RAW you probably have more flexibility as you can "pull out" more information on your computer and thus have much better dynamic range. But in the case of free diving and this particular camera MANUAL might not be best.

 

[whucash]

Sorry, but I've got to disagree with this point of view.

Postprocessing an image is about getting back the feel of what you saw in the water at the time. It's why we alter white balance, change saturation and clarity, sharpen image to regain lost detail, burn and dodge to isolate the subject and even do spot removal for those flecks of sediment that detract from the feel of a photograph. Why is it that changing a photo over to B&W or even sepia is okay, but not altering colour or saturation? Photography IS art, it's all about feeling and emotion. I have no problem enhancing a photo to improve it and don't feel bad in doing so. The camera DOES NOT capture what our eyes and brain do. We are capable of processing a much greater dynamic range than even the best cameras, can isolate a subject or take in a wide vista and white balance our brains automatically. We even can selectively ignore parts of a scene that detract from it, like sediment. Don't get stuck into believing that postprocessing is wrong. Like all things it can be overdone, and there is no way of turning a fundamentally flawed image into a great one, but you simply cannot take truly stunning images without doing some work on them afterwards.

There are two sides of post processing the image..
One is changing contrast or brightness and the other is deleting unwanted objects from the picture or bad flash effects from it..
The first side is good, especially when you don't have filters etc..
But the second one for me is far to hard interference in the picture, and nowadays you can make great picture from absolute rubbish!
And i have to disagree with you..you CAN take a picture..really good one without editing it in photoshop etc. Yes, it is harder and sometimes it takes few shots until you make what you want, but for me it gives far more satisfaction.
For me taking picture is art but if you start to change it in the hard way it starts to look like a craftsmanship..

 

[Rip Tide]

I don't think you have a lot to be upset with. Those are very nice. The second set turned out much better in fact. I suppose distance is the key to the great photo.

Now I have never taken an underwater photo, though I have a D200.

On my D200, I can't recall the name of the setting. But essentially, when you depress the shutter button, the camera takes 3-5 shots within a second at different exposures. Many times I have used this in order to get the right colors as an end result. 3 of the 5 may end up horrible, but the last one or two are great.

Just a thought.

 

[speareasy]

I don't think you have a lot to be upset with. Those are very nice. The second set turned out much better in fact. I suppose distance is the key to the great photo.

Now I have never taken an underwater photo, though I have a D200.

On my D200, I can't recall the name of the setting. But essentially, when you depress the shutter button, the camera takes 3-5 shots within a second at different exposures. Many times I have used this in order to get the right colors as an end result. 3 of the 5 may end up horrible, but the last one or two are great.

Just a thought.

Yes that is called bracketing. You get several pictures with different exposure settings which are preset to higher and lower than your target exposure. I might have to try that but in my experience bracketing is not very helpful on fast moving subjects as by the time you are taking that first picture you would have lost the composition of photo. And of course if flash is used then the flash has no time to fill up quickly again. I actually use bracketing quite a bit when I am taking photos for HDR and the subject is not moving quickly.

As for post processing, I can understand how some might think removing scratches or back scatter is not good, but personally I have nothing against it and think that in some photographic settings it is absolutely necessary ... underwater photography seems to be one of those settings. If you take pictures of landscapes, you will find that in most cases when you have aperture at f11 or higher and where there is a smooth sky or other smooth gradual tonal color ... sensor dust or sensor "botches" are a part of life as with even the best sensor cleaning, at such high apertures you are bound to get hit with that . You become very proficient in removing those particles and you quickly find out that it is the only way to get nice clean crisp pictures. Again that is simply part of the digital age and while some may be against it, I think it is just fine.

 

[Rip Tide]

Good point. Didn't think about the moving target and flash repower.

 

[primozp]

Here are some other pix.

In june tis year I was in Maldives (atol Raa, Meddhupparu island) too. I made there some photos Maldives 16.jun - 01.jul 2009 album | Primoz | Fotki.com and movies [ame="http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=0B4522D37F769971"]YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.[/ame] with "naked" Panasonic DMC-FT1 in depths up to 6 meters.

 

[speareasy]

Very nice! Which resort did you go to? We had the same thing with the fish feeding at 9pm every night. Some HUGE giant trevalles would come in very shallow.

 

[primozp]

Very nice! Which resort did you go to? We had the same thing with the fish feeding at 9pm every night. Some HUGE giant trevalles would come in very shallow.

We spent beautiful holidays at hotel Adaraan, island Meedhupparu, atol Raa, Maldives.

 

[renepotvin]

the parrot picture is right on. very nice. some other could use some white balance and a little push on the contrast bar.

 

[Maldives Diving Adventure]

Nice Pics!
Here I am also sharing some of underwater diving Video.