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Answered My weird questions about breath holds

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Jamsebrown

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Dec 23, 2023
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I recently started being interested in free diving. I’m the guy who kept asking the weird questions about how long it takes to black out and if gender or height have any effect of it… These questions were dumb, I know that, and I’m sorry about them. I suffer from severe OCD that causes me to be obsessively terrified that some of my friends (and very specifically one friend) might be better than me at holding their breath, even though they’re untrained. So for everyone who wondered, that’s the reason. That’s why I tried to get an answer on if height, weight, and ESPECIALLY gender have any effect on the time a person can hold their breath for and the amount of time it takes to blackout. So I’m sorry for my obsessive questions, sorry for my spammy behaviour. I hope you understand. Thank you for your time and have a wonderful week :)
 
Some of the most interesting people that have frequented this forum have had unusual personalities, including some of the best freedivers on the planet. You are welcome here, but it does help to warn us. Thanks
 
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I recently started being interested in free diving. I’m the guy who kept asking the weird questions about how long it takes to black out and if gender or height have any effect of it… These questions were dumb, I know that, and I’m sorry about them. I suffer from severe OCD that causes me to be obsessively terrified that some of my friends (and very specifically one friend) might be better than me at holding their breath, even though they’re untrained. So for everyone who wondered, that’s the reason. That’s why I tried to get an answer on if height, weight, and ESPECIALLY gender have any effect on the time a person can hold their breath for and the amount of time it takes to blackout. So I’m sorry for my obsessive questions, sorry for my spammy behaviour. I hope you understand. Thank you for your time and have a wonderful week :)
While there are many physical variables that play into it (as you already know), the most important quality I've found that separates a lot of people in breathholding and diving is your mind and being able to allow full relaxation. I know of a few people that are relatively fit and healthy, but cannot get over their anxiety while diving. One person in particular I've been diving with since I started spearfishing, is limited in his down time, and therefore his depth. On the other end, I know people that I consider in less physical shape than me and have set freediving records.

The largest improvements in my diving have come from better controlling the mind and relaxing. Also, being very aware of using only the muscles needed when diving.

It's good to have the want and desire to do better. It's the only way to get better. Comparing yourself with someone now does not determine how you'll perform in the future. I started out with terrible breathholds and watched as my friends spent what seemed like forever at "unreachable" depths. Just be safe and have a good partner if you dive.
 
While there are many physical variables that play into it (as you already know), the most important quality I've found that separates a lot of people in breathholding and diving is your mind and being able to allow full relaxation. I know of a few people that are relatively fit and healthy, but cannot get over their anxiety while diving. One person in particular I've been diving with since I started spearfishing, is limited in his down time, and therefore his depth. On the other end, I know people that I consider in less physical shape than me and have set freediving records.

The largest improvements in my diving have come from better controlling the mind and relaxing. Also, being very aware of using only the muscles needed when diving.

It's good to have the want and desire to do better. It's the only way to get better. Comparing yourself with someone now does not determine how you'll perform in the future. I started out with terrible breathholds and watched as my friends spent what seemed like forever at "unreachable" depths. Just be safe and have a good partner if you dive.
I see, thank you!
So relaxation is the key, but if two individuals are hypothetically at the same level of relaxation and using the same techniques, would a taller man have an advantage or a disadvantage on a shorter woman? (at least when it comes to times, not depths)
 
In theory, taller people will have larger lungs, which contributes to long breathholds. However, there are so many other, more important, factors, like strength of dive reflex, that contribute to breathhold. Suggesting that a given taller person will have better breathholds than a shorter person is just not valid.

Dive reflex is the key factor in long safe breathholds, vastly more important than any other physical characteristic. People vary in how strong a dive reflex they develop. If you could figure out a way to compare dive reflex ability, you might have a valid way to compare the potential of different divers.
 
In theory, taller people will have larger lungs, which contributes to long breathholds. However, there are so many other, more important, factors, like strength of dive reflex, that contribute to breathhold. Suggesting that a given taller person will have better breathholds than a shorter person is just not valid.

Dive reflex is the key factor in long safe breathholds, vastly more important than any other physical characteristic. People vary in how strong a dive reflex they develop. If you could figure out a way to compare dive reflex ability, you might have a valid way to compare the potential of different divers.
Thank you!
What about dry statics where dive reflex is basically non existent?
Have a wonderful year! :)
 
Thank you!
What about dry statics where dive reflex is basically non existent?
Have a wonderful year! :)
Dive reflex is less strong when dry, but its still present. Its much stronger empty lung than full lung. I do empty lung dry statics to train dive reflex and get a strong enough response to make my arms and hands tingle. After the hold, I can feel blood flooding into my arms and legs as the blood sift releases.
 
Dive reflex is less strong when dry, but its still present. Its much stronger empty lung than full lung. I do empty lung dry statics to train dive reflex and get a strong enough response to make my arms and hands tingle. After the hold, I can feel blood flooding into my arms and legs as the blood sift releases.
I see, thank you so much!
But is the dive reflex still the key for breath holding even when you’re doing a dry static? Or do height, weight, gender, age, and all of that get more important?
 
TL;DR:
Bottom line is that it's (really) complicated, so you're not going to get a definitive answer to your question about height/weight/gender/age.
Also, be sure to read the conclusion at the end...



Dive reflex is probably up there as the biggest factor for breathhold time, along with initial amount of oxygen in the lungs. (More precisely, the onset of hypoxia is to do with partial pressure of oxygen as the breathhold progresses [which affects how well O2 in lungs diffuses into blood], and how well that O2 is getting delivered to the brain. So it depends on initial partial pressure of O2 in lungs [how much air/gas is in lungs and what percentage of that is O2], subsequent rate of oxygen use reducing the O2 hence reducing the partial pressure, and unrestricted blood flow along with level of CO2 [via Bohr effect] affecting amount of O2 that diffuses into cells. Also any changes to ambient pressure during the breathhold will change partial pressure, but that only really applies when ascending/descending.)

As cdavis said above, the 'lung volume' (as a rough concept, see below) is likely correlated (on average) with height and general overall build, which initially suggests that someone taller might (on average) take longer to blackout.

However, I'd also counter that by noting that increasing height (and weight) will typically mean you have more cells in your body, which would potentially lead to a higher oxygen usage. (The type of cells probably plays a role, too - more muscle cells, and of certain types, could mean higher O2 use? Also, I've no idea about comparative O2 usage of fat cells, nor even how much increased brain activity may potentially play into this - many things done by the brain are automatic/subconscious, but if you 'think [a lot] harder' does that very slightly increase the need for blood/O2 to supply the brain...??)

I'm not sure how these two effects (increased 'lung capacity' with size vs more cells with size) would play out against each other out, and there are so many other factors that are way more important from person to person, and even from day to day & hour to hour. But it does suggest that, all other things being equal (which they're not...), you' might be better off short & fairly skinny (and with a small/inactive brain?! ;) ), but with unusually large 'lung capacity' for your size!

I think the only way to really quantify the importance of these things would be through taking a huge number & range of people, hooking them up to numerous monitors, and measuring a whole load of attributes (height, weight, age, gender, muscle mass of various types, lung capacity [including comfort at various volumes - see below], blood gases, blood composition [i.e. types of cells], metabolism, heart rate, numerous fitness markers, etc.). Then you could maybe try to correlate those with several repeated dry static times taken over multiple days (and also trying to take into account any previous experience with breathhold).



A note about what we've loosely called 'lung capacity/volume'...

The lungs by themselves are often capable of holding a fair bit more air than you can actually breathe in, even when taking your deepest breath. What tends to limit it is lack of flexibility around the chest (and diaphragm?) That's one of the reasons serious freedivers will do various stretches to improve/maintain such flexibility.

However, even if you manage to take a deeper breath and get more oxygen into your lungs before a dry static, paradoxically, that may not mean it takes longer to reach hypoxia!

You may well find that filling up with more air actually becomes less comfortable due to 'stretch-receptors' that increase the urge to breathe and bring on contractions sooner. This, in turn, can decrease your ability to relax and reduces the dive reflex so you end up using O2 more quickly. (Again, the stretching exercises mentioned above can help.)

Also, increasing initial air in the lungs (without being flexible enough) can lead to some 'restriction' within the torso that actually reduces the ability of the heart to circulate blood - even leading to blackout (potentially even at/near the start of the breathhold).



In conclusion, here are three final thoughts...
  1. It's unusual to be able to reach blackout during dry static, especially for a beginner. -For the vast majority of people, it becomes way too uncomfortable to maintain breathhold to a level of hypoxia that could lead to blackout (largely due to build-up of CO2 and contractions).
  2. I suspect the more you think about this question the sooner you would reach hypoxia/blackout during your dry static breathholds (even just reaching general discomfort & contractions earlier).
  3. It's not good that you try (or encourage others) to reach blackout anyway during any breathhold - it's not helpful.
I know that second point is difficult - telling someone to not think about something is the best way to make them think about it!

Instead, try to train yourself to actively replace the thought, and think of something else - specifically, something that helps you to relax. That may be some kind of happy non-stressful memory, or repeating a saying or song/chorus in your head that flows easily with no effort to remember. I've even heard that doing some mental arithmetic can help! (I guess some may find that more stressful...)

It's really up to you to experiment with different thoughts and see if you can find something that works for you - and that will also likely take some time and practice, so don't expect it to work straight away.


...here ends another essay by me... :rolleyes:
 
Technique is far more important than visible physical characteristics, height, weight sex, etc. Good technique promotes all the things that improve beathhold, relaxation, efficient movement, mental state, ultimately dive reflex. To give you some idea of the difference: I dive half lung, taking down far less O2 and having less co2 storage capacity than full lung. It doesn't work for dry static, but for serial diving in moderate depth (60-80 ft) it dramaticly improves dive reflex, extends my dive time by at least 15 percent, and makes long dives much more comfortable. The physiology strongly suggests its safer as well. To make this work it needs to be combined with a change in dive pattern and it requires some getting used to. All this is technique.
 
TL;DR:
Bottom line is that it's (really) complicated, so you're not going to get a definitive answer to your question about height/weight/gender/age.
Also, be sure to read the conclusion at the end...



Dive reflex is probably up there as the biggest factor for breathhold time, along with initial amount of oxygen in the lungs. (More precisely, the onset of hypoxia is to do with partial pressure of oxygen as the breathhold progresses [which affects how well O2 in lungs diffuses into blood], and how well that O2 is getting delivered to the brain. So it depends on initial partial pressure of O2 in lungs [how much air/gas is in lungs and what percentage of that is O2], subsequent rate of oxygen use reducing the O2 hence reducing the partial pressure, and unrestricted blood flow along with level of CO2 [via Bohr effect] affecting amount of O2 that diffuses into cells. Also any changes to ambient pressure during the breathhold will change partial pressure, but that only really applies when ascending/descending.)

As cdavis said above, the 'lung volume' (as a rough concept, see below) is likely correlated (on average) with height and general overall build, which initially suggests that someone taller might (on average) take longer to blackout.

However, I'd also counter that by noting that increasing height (and weight) will typically mean you have more cells in your body, which would potentially lead to a higher oxygen usage. (The type of cells probably plays a role, too - more muscle cells, and of certain types, could mean higher O2 use? Also, I've no idea about comparative O2 usage of fat cells, nor even how much increased brain activity may potentially play into this - many things done by the brain are automatic/subconscious, but if you 'think [a lot] harder' does that very slightly increase the need for blood/O2 to supply the brain...??)

I'm not sure how these two effects (increased 'lung capacity' with size vs more cells with size) would play out against each other out, and there are so many other factors that are way more important from person to person, and even from day to day & hour to hour. But it does suggest that, all other things being equal (which they're not...), you' might be better off short & fairly skinny (and with a small/inactive brain?! ;) ), but with unusually large 'lung capacity' for your size!

I think the only way to really quantify the importance of these things would be through taking a huge number & range of people, hooking them up to numerous monitors, and measuring a whole load of attributes (height, weight, age, gender, muscle mass of various types, lung capacity [including comfort at various volumes - see below], blood gases, blood composition [i.e. types of cells], metabolism, heart rate, numerous fitness markers, etc.). Then you could maybe try to correlate those with several repeated dry static times taken over multiple days (and also trying to take into account any previous experience with breathhold).



A note about what we've loosely called 'lung capacity/volume'...

The lungs by themselves are often capable of holding a fair bit more air than you can actually breathe in, even when taking your deepest breath. What tends to limit it is lack of flexibility around the chest (and diaphragm?) That's one of the reasons serious freedivers will do various stretches to improve/maintain such flexibility.

However, even if you manage to take a deeper breath and get more oxygen into your lungs before a dry static, paradoxically, that may not mean it takes longer to reach hypoxia!

You may well find that filling up with more air actually becomes less comfortable due to 'stretch-receptors' that increase the urge to breathe and bring on contractions sooner. This, in turn, can decrease your ability to relax and reduces the dive reflex so you end up using O2 more quickly. (Again, the stretching exercises mentioned above can help.)

Also, increasing initial air in the lungs (without being flexible enough) can lead to some 'restriction' within the torso that actually reduces the ability of the heart to circulate blood - even leading to blackout (potentially even at/near the start of the breathhold).



In conclusion, here are three final thoughts...
  1. It's unusual to be able to reach blackout during dry static, especially for a beginner. -For the vast majority of people, it becomes way too uncomfortable to maintain breathhold to a level of hypoxia that could lead to blackout (largely due to build-up of CO2 and contractions).
  2. I suspect the more you think about this question the sooner you would reach hypoxia/blackout during your dry static breathholds (even just reaching general discomfort & contractions earlier).
  3. It's not good that you try (or encourage others) to reach blackout anyway during any breathhold - it's not helpful.
I know that second point is difficult - telling someone to not think about something is the best way to make them think about it!

Instead, try to train yourself to actively replace the thought, and think of something else - specifically, something that helps you to relax. That may be some kind of happy non-stressful memory, or repeating a saying or song/chorus in your head that flows easily with no effort to remember. I've even heard that doing some mental arithmetic can help! (I guess some may find that more stressful...)

It's really up to you to experiment with different thoughts and see if you can find something that works for you - and that will also likely take some time and practice, so don't expect it to work straight away.


...here ends another essay by me... :rolleyes:
You’re truly a king. I didn’t expect an essay.
Thank you so much for the answer! I appreciate it a lot!
 
Technique is far more important than visible physical characteristics, height, weight sex, etc. Good technique promotes all the things that improve beathhold, relaxation, efficient movement, mental state, ultimately dive reflex. To give you some idea of the difference: I dive half lung, taking down far less O2 and having less co2 storage capacity than full lung. It doesn't work for dry static, but for serial diving in moderate depth (60-80 ft) it dramaticly improves dive reflex, extends my dive time by at least 15 percent, and makes long dives much more comfortable. The physiology strongly suggests its safer as well. To make this work it needs to be combined with a change in dive pattern and it requires some getting used to. All this is technique.
But if two people use exactly the same techniques, use the same percentage of their lung capacity, and have exactly the same levels of relaxation, dive reflex, and mental state. Will height, weight, sex or age come more into account?
 
Not a useful discussion, but if two divers were exactly alike in everything and doing identical types of diving, age, sex, weight, etc might become relevant to performance. I'd not be sure how each factor would affect diving performance; and whatever the effect, it would probably confer different levels of advantage/disadvantage depending on the type of diving they were doing.
 
Not a useful discussion, but if two divers were exactly alike in everything and doing identical types of diving, age, sex, weight, etc might become relevant to performance. I'd not be sure how each factor would affect diving performance; and whatever the effect, it would probably confer different levels of advantage/disadvantage depending on the type of diving they were doing.
That’s really interesting. I wonder if there are any researches on that topic, since it might allow people to know what’s the best physical shape for certain types of diving techniques or apneas.
I appreciate your time :)
 
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