Ned help?

[Murat]

I went to the spearfishing today. I noticed that even my 6.50mm (may be 6,35) shaft is not fast enough to hit fast, small fishes.Altough my Hawaian 6,35 mm shaft has tricut.The top part of the tricut is little deformed (bent) very slightly.I am wondering how much will it effect the accuracy?What should i do? I decide to buy 6mm shaft to increase the speed and lower the weight for easier tracking. But the thing is that i don`t know if 6mm shaft can handle my 86 cm OMER`s 20mm new black energy bands?Will be there any disadvantage if i use this setup for my specific purpose?

 

[Wishbone]

Hi Murat,

Any curve of the shaft will affect the accuracy... And if you're using a trident, that's even bigger problem, since the trident affects the hydrodynamics. Try fixing it by hitting very gently with wooden or rubber hammer. But to be honest, if you're not hunting in holes and caves - better get rid of the trident.
Other than that, it all depends on what you're after. A 6.5mm shaft is pretty much okay for average sized mediterranean fishes (over 1kg). However, if you're going for smaller species, you better get a 5.5 - 6mm shaft. It will work pretty fine with even 16mm bands.
Now if you're using too powerful bands, it's not the shaft but the tube of the speargun that you should worry about - it tends to curve when loaded. And that affects accuracy. But that depends on the type of the gun. The tube of my Beuchat Arka per example curves even with 18mm bands.
I think that everything thicker than 18mm is not really of any use unless you're going to use the gun for Mero. And you don't really need a cannon to shoot 1kg fish.
Now you should also consider the length of the bands. Maybe you should simply get shorter bands.

BTW, I bought the Excalibur Carbon. Can't wait to test it!

Hope this helps,

Ivan

 

[Shadowkiller]

I assume you mean a tricut shaft with flopper?
Not a trident (useless!) as Wishbone thinks...

Your main problem with small fish is the same as if you were shooting ducks or rabbits with a shotgun. You need to lead the fish in order to hit it.

That means knowing where the fish is going to be when your shaft gets there. So practice, practice practice.

Having a nice straight shaft helps a lot!

 

[Wishbone]

Yep!

Shadowkliier is quite right about the similarities between shooting skeet with a shotgun!
I assume that by "lead the fish" he means that you should take aim and move the gun following the fish 'till you have the best aim. Then shoot without stopping the movement of the gun. If you stop - you'll miss. The fish has just enough time to move out of your aim.
And if the target is small and moves really fast and the path is ~90 degrees to your gun, you may even place the shot few centimeters ahead of the fish. But it depends on the distance. between the tip of the shaft and the fish.

Just like shooting skeet!

 

[Murat]

Thanks guys

First of all i don`t use tridient i am using tricut hawaian shaft. The fishes are very small and fast. This why i want 6mm shaft. The fishes less than a 1 kg (generally).I am not worying about speargun`s tube because my gun`s original config is 1 20 mm.So the issue is shaft. IS 6mm SHAFT WILL WORK FINE WITH 1 20 mm BAND?.BTW i noticed in Spero Store the length of the 6.5mm tricut hawaian shaft is 140 cm for 86 cm gun but 6.5 mm hawaian ordinary (pointed) shaft is 130 cm for 86 cm gun. Any idea?

 

[Iyadiver]

Murat,

Try pencil point Hawaiian shaft. A bit less penetration but I think good on accuracy.

IYA

 

[Murat]

hey Iya what are you thinking about this 6mm shaft and 20mm power band config. Are they work well together?

 

[Shadowkiller]

Im assuming that your Omer is not an enclosed track gun?
With all spearguns, the thinner the shaft the more "shaft whip" you are going to get.
So your best ption may be to have a friend watch you shoot or try this method:

Remove the shooting line so your freeshafting.
Wrap a 10cm piece of paper around your shaft and gun halfway between the trigger entry and the muzzle. The paper needs to be stuck down with sticky tape (natch) after the gun is loaded. It helps greatly if you use a good quality paper that doesnt get too soggy too quickly. I use waxpaper for this.

Fire the gun (preferably into a sandy bottom!)
If the paper is snapped clean the your shaft is bending, if it is torn with tear points at the trigger end then the shaft end (notches etc) has torn it. You might need a few goes to figure it out which is actually happening but its a good way of determining how bad you shaft whip is.

If you are going down from 6.5 to 6mm then you may have to get a less flexible shaft ie one with a higher carbon content. It will also be more brittle so dont go shooting fish-shaped rocks!

 

[Iyadiver]

Hi Young Murat,

Sorry dude, I only tried 7mm being the thinnest so me can not realy help u on this one.

But if I may speculate :
If ur shaft is only 75 cm +-, you might get away with decent result provided that there is some sort of continuos rail like RA on ur barrel and keep short whatever extra projection of shaft (overhang ) from the muzzle. I am afraid the 20mm band will sag down the shaft if no continuos support/track is available.

I think ur 6.35mm is already very fast if u use brand new 20mm rubber, the problem is us the spearo. We get used to the gun so often, fast look slow...this is always the case. Just like a sport car, the more you drive the more you think it is not giving u enough thrill.

Experiment my friend...... Shadowkiller method sounds interesting.

IYA

 

[Shadowkiller]

Just as an adenum to the previous post.

You will have to wedge something between the bands and the tube at the muzzle, so the rubbers dont rub on the paper and prematurely tear it. Or really stick down the sides of it so the rubber slides on the plastic sticktape.

Also note that I used this test on my prototype roller gun. It hurled a spear some 30 to 40m through the air. Yep I dry fired the bugger and I wont be doing that again in a hurry. My fingers and our shed wall took time to recover...

But my wax-paper test did show considerable shaft whip on it! But it doesnt consider the dampening effect of water (when you dry fire).
If you experiment with tearing paper then you can spot how the paper got torn ie shaft flex vs wishbone/notch damage.

Happy testing!

btw I totally agree with Iyadiver. The more you shoot the slower the gun gets. Im up to 2 20mm and 1 16mm rubbers on my Riffe and still not happy. Im only getting about 4m range out of my 90cm Gun.

Oh well back to my RA's!

 

[Iyadiver]

Shadow

Aaahhhhaaaa, did I hear a Riffe.
Shadow. Are you using the 3/4" Riffe band ? You must be some muscle to pull it if urs is a mid-handle Riffe. What is ur 90 cm Riffe model and what shaft +spearhead u r using for those band set up ? Let me know, maybe I can help u tweak it a bit. he he he

Thanks
IYA

 

[Murat]

90 cm Riffe? I am checking from my Riffe catalog... Never heard before. It s sounds strange to get 4 meter range with 2 20mm and 1 16mm power band. There must be something wrong there

BTW Iya i am wondering about swinging of the Riffe comp 3x and MT3 against euro guns. I know Riffe is slower but i am wondering how much? Waiting for your test results.May be my next gun will be com 3x if the MT3 can not even come close to comp3x in swinging test.But the my first chooice is OMER alluminium 90 if i find it in our local dealers they are pretty don`t know about OMER products.When i asked them about Alluminium they told me What is it? Even they don`t belived me when i said them it`s a speargun.When i asked them for the Millenium Sandart Green or Black fins they showed me the Grey (Winter) version and said, this is the only new fin produced by OMER. What a poor dealers for a big company like OMER.:naughty :naughty

I decided to buy 6mm shaft and try it with my 20mm. But the problem is i couldn`t find 6mm shaft in our OMER dealers.I noticed that all the speros are looking for 6mm shaft out here.May be i am right this small fishes versus faster shaft business

 

[Shadowkiller]

Iyadiver



The orginal bands on my Riffe have long since rotted away. I make my own out of 20mm rubber. Or 16mm.

My Riffe *strokes gun* is a an end-handle (?) type about 90cm to 1m in length (never measured it). I have no idea what model it is since I picked it up second hand for A$120 (it also had two shafts with it). That 60 bucks in amercian!

I shoot a 6.5mm Tahitian shaft with a double wrap of mono rather than the standard single. The main problem is punching power at long distances hence the 4m range. The spear wants to go further than that (25-30m) but it lacks penetration power beyond 4m.

For big game like kingies I use my 110 RA for inshore and my 130 for offshore hunting.

 

[Abriapnea]

Re: Iyadiver

Originally posted by Shadowkiller




For big game like kingies I use my 110 RA for inshore and my 130 for offshore hunting.

AHHH ! The choice of champions

 

[Shadowkiller]

RA's

Originally posted by Abriapnea


AHHH ! The choice of champions

Well mainly I love my Riffe too much to risk loosing it... :inlove
I picked up the RA's for A$100 ($50US) so I figure I wont mind as much if a big fish decides to confiscate my gear.

The RA's rock but loading them is a pain. My chest is permanently covered in bruises. I must get a loading pad one of these days...
:hmm

 

[Wishbone]

Hey Murat,

Make me a list of what O.ME.R. products you're looking for.
My local dealer is on my spearfishing team and I can ask him for a favor without any problem. He also sells Beuchat and Cressi.

He distributes only locally, but I guess he'll make an exeption and send the equipment to Cyprus if we're talking about a relatively big order (speargun + fins + shafts + etc.) I am sure you'll have to pay for postal and customs, though. And the other thing is - he doesn't provide any guatantees (even when I buy the equipment).

That's the best I can do, mate. Just write me an e-mail and I'll call him.

Ivan

 

[Iyadiver]

Hi Shadow,

It is very easy to ID a Riffe. I think your is a Competitor #1 at 99 cm. Very easy to tell, first read the serial number, tell me.
Second if the hole on the rear teak stock ( for breakaway gear ) is on top of ur pistol grip and not some distance away near the butt like 7cm or so, this is a confirmed Competitor Series.

I will advice you to use 7mm shaft, even though 4 meters is a deadly range for a short 100cm gun. U are now lacking the forward inertia of a heavier shaft, anyway Riffe smallest shaft set up as basic gear is 7mm Hawaiian Flopper.

Use 3 x 5/16" ( 14mm ) Riffe original bands with 7mm Hawaiian shaft and 3 wraps of 250 pounds mono, you will get the best potential of the gun with least recoil. Still 4 meter is a very conservative measure.

My 124 cm with 3 x 14mm bands with 7mm shaft or 4 x 14mm bands with 8mm shaft + Ice Pick, I rate it at 4 meters too. Anygun that can have a deadly impact at 4 times the length of the gun is good enough.

Well mainly I love my Riffe too much to risk loosing it...

I picked up the RA's for A$100 ($50US) so I figure I wont mind as much if a big fish decides to confiscate my gear.

Sorry Abri......u didn't get me this time he he he
It's the love my friend, not the performance...... he he he


May be u should get the breakaway rig and don't loose any gun, except the shaft.....


Have FUN,
IYA

 

[Iyadiver]

Hi Murat,

I never try a Competitor #3 but a friend have a Standard #3. Since an MT3 is a mid handle. I am sure the swing is better than C3, the Hawaiian Mid-Handle swing very nice, it is more or less like the MT3 but the Hawaiian butt is some 10 cm closer to ur mouth !!! MT3 is heavier than Hawaiian or C3, this might be a less comfortable gun to swing all day.

I'll run some test and let you know if I can get hold of anything of ur interest....I want to make sure u buy the right gun. I still have no news from my MT3 friend cause this guys is not my core group and he hunt in different area. So I don't see him more than a few times a year.

Basicaly mid handle is the best swinger if they are not too long, I mean under 130cm. The weight distribution being placed some at the rear realy helps.

Remember swinging comes in two way. Based on a single hand hold : If u are a right hander, it will be easier to swing from right to left because the palm of your hand fight the water resistance, more efficient use of the hand. If u swing from left to right, the fingers do the figthing of water resistance so, not as fast as the other way round.... this I tried last week cause I realy pay attention to the swing instead of thinking of FISH. I think if we spend just an hour experimenting this and that instead of shooting fish all the time we might find out a thing or two which might help us be better hunters.

If I use big guns, I do not entirely use my hand to swing because it will be too slow, I use my body via my waist or fins to help me swing.... same result : a swing but less energy waste on the hand. Like how we aim at a running rabbit when shooting a rifle, the waist do the tracking. If you use a pistol, the hand does the tracking.

Many times in the middle of the hunt and the excitement you might have ur body horizontal to give the fish a smaller profile of urself, this way ur fins need to assist swinging, ur waist can't swing.

You see I am still a VERY scuba guy, so..... quite a few times my body is vertical in position while I shoot fish or when I see a fish. My fins are small/short ones too, very manuverable so they can help a lot in swinging me body plus my waist. I too need to learn how to adjust or make best use of my body in swinging a big gun when I freedive.

Basicaly I am still searching for a shortest possible gun which can shoot 6 meters effective with 8mm shaft and Ice Pick. Prefer the gun to be 130 cm maximum. I can achieve this with 7mm shaft easier but I want the impact of a minimum of 8mm shaft and the deadly grip of an Ice Pick which I find has very high resistance in water and in penetration..........what to do......nothing is perfect.

 

[Murat]

Hey Iya you must also think about the size of the stock when talking about swinging. MT and Mid-Handles are good u can use both of your hands to swing but as i observe from the pic. they have 2 times thicker stock than comp. series.U can`t compare ur standart series and comp. beacause standart serie`s have same thick stock as other MT and Mid Handles.I will be very appriciate if you can find comp 3x for me to test. BTW using both of my hands in my speargun has some advantages and disadvantages.For me its easier to aim and hit the fish if using two hand but i am also a cave hunter. It`s seem the only way here to hunt black groupers here so i am also planing to use a light for the left hand. You may say is it logical to make cave hunting with MT3 or Comp3x? Probably not. This why my first choice is OMER Alluminium.May be my third or second gun may be a Riffe (If i improve myself and stick out from cave hunting to reef hunting).It`s depends much more on mediterenian conditions.

 

[Murat]

Thank you Whishbone for offer. In cyprus there is lots of poletic shits so the delivery is not safe around here.But i will be glad if you ask for the prices for OMER Alluminium 90 speargun, OMER Millenium Standart Black or Green.May be i can find the safe way for delivery.