Need help of freedivers!!!

[Murat]

When you dive down which technique is better??? Stop fin kicking at the just starting point of break free of kicking few more times to gain speed???

I noticed that when you stop kicking at the just begining of break free or 1.5-2 meters later i fall slower but when i kick few more extra time i drop down faster...Which one is more efficient??? Mentally i perform better when droping down faster but don't sure if its the wat to go.

Another thing, when i examine my D3 for diving simulations after the dive i noticed that at one second it measures 0.6 meters and another second it reads 0.9-1 meters, is this normal or there is something wrong with my technique???

I will calculate the point of break free by using d3 but i am not sure if my weight is correct for what i am doing.Now i am currently 77-78 kg wearing 3mm suit and using 4kg lead on the belt and 0.5+0.5 kgs on the ankles. My intend to dive between 20-30 meters interval. Since i am a spero i will need some bottom time down there. What you suggest???

Thanx a lot

 

[Mlaen]

Not sure for myself, I also like going down faster but about weights: I'm 81kg and use only 4kg in 5mm suit...I go up to 24m (my PB)

 

[DeepThought]

I doubt if those D3 readings really describe a duckdive properly, buit I don't think it is your technique.
Could it be that it's a reasonable depth for your HAND to be at maybe (since you wear it on your hand...)? Assuming you pulled yourself down with your hands... or alteast changed hand positions during the duck dive.
You can try wearing the watch (using extension strap) on upper arm maybe...
Can't compare readings with my duckdives since mosquito has 2 sec intervals...

Regarding weight, I'de say you're a bit heavy for that depth, but I guess that for spearfishing you usally wanna be heavy, so you'll stop finning earlier and scare the fish less. Anyway, weighting issue is very subjective, I can't really advice you on that. Just trial and error.

Why are you using leg weights? for surface swimming?

 

[Murat]

i did not used my hands for diving, i keep them on the nose for equalizing. So the position of the hands does not change.May be there is something wrong with simulation property of the watch. I feel that i went down at constant speed, at least while kicking with fins.I assumer i kick equal with both fins but it still simulate the dive 0.6-0.9/1 meter alternatively per second.

Ankle weights, let u use less wieghts on the belt. Makes aspetto easier at the relative shallow water by keeping the fins down at the bottom. While swimming on the surface it splash less water makes you more silent and fins does not lost too much energy...


Yeah looking for more help here... Anybody?

 

[DeepThought]

O, you meant meters per second? I thought you meant for the first seconds of the dive. Missed you totaly.
I calculated the speed of my deeper line dives once (not so deep), calcualted by depth difference each 10 seconds devided by 10, and I also had a difference in speed - sometimes as extreme as 0.9-1.3 meters/second for the same dive I think.

I guess that the change in bouyancy has one thing to do with that, also rate of kicks, glide phase (if you have one), body position - moving hand to equalize, relaxing more as you get deeper etc. Also harder to to know how verticle you are sometimes without a line...

 

[alein]

I agree that descending faster makes the dive mentally a bit easier (for me); I'm not sure what you mean by the "break free" point, but I generally kick to twice my neutral buoyancy depth (about 30m for me with 4lbs ballast). However, a few meters before the end I will generally slow the kicking down a bit, and I sometimes continue with very slow kicks for the first few seconds of the glide phase, just to psychologically adjust to not propelling myself.

If you really want to maximize "efficiency", by which we probably mean something like the ratio of speed to oxygen use, you probably want to figure out your effective weight (actual weight minus buoyant force) throughout the dive, as well as the force you apply by kicking, and train so that the net force applied to your body is constant throughout the dive, or at least until you stop kicking.

I can imagine this being hard for several reasons. The first is that I have no idea how much force my kicking applies to the water; in fact it's not even constant throughout the kick cycle. We might be able to figure this out. Does anybody know a typical value for drag coefficient of freediver in salt water (low-profile mask, no snorkel, good streamlining)?

-Adam

 

[Murat]

Originally posted by alein
However, a few meters before the end I will generally slow the kicking down a bit, and I sometimes continue with very slow kicks for the first few seconds of the glide phase, just to psychologically adjust to not propelling myself.

-Adam

Is this give you extra speed up to end of the descent? May be i better to decrease my weight by 2 pounds

By the way i don't think alternating speed measure effected by buoyancy since it reads 0.6-0.9/1 meter/sec from begining of the dive to the end of it. Is this speed good or not? I am using nylon outside suit, snorkel, speargun and so :hmm

 

[cece]

I don't know if it may help you but my experience is to stop kicking as soon as you can.
You're a spearo and so you need to stay on the bottom for, ... a while... , the less you kick the more you stay... (it depends... but in most of the case, it is)
Anyway, I'm 65 KG, using 5.5mm nylon outside, spearfishing... and using also 4kg going down to 30 meters (pb) and then aspetto.
I think you might drop down some weight (4kg in 30 meters is just too much for me, the way back was difficult).
My ducking is done with 2 legs and I need to improve it as I think it is not enought efficient...
Well, here my little experience.

Forza Spearfishing

 

[Murat]

Where is the best point to be neutral/negative for 25-30 meters hunt?

 

[cece]

Really I don't know exactly...
It depends the way you like to fish ...

In my case, I like to be neutral around half the depth, just a bit deeper in fact... In this case as soon as you kick, you will leave the bottom.

You need to have a good ducking (ie. my last post) because you will need to kick hard enough to go down .

 

[Murat]

you mean duck dive by "ducking"? I raise one leg let my body sink down, after fins are underwater i start kicking.

 

[cece]

OK, I used to do the same thing.

Try to raise both legs together, it is really more efficient!! with this kind of duck you will able to take off some weight from your belt...it is a bit more noisy but doen't matter as you go deeper than usual .

 

[Murat]

Actually i try them both Depends my mood. I always like to do diferent movements in water. But one leg dive is definatelly better for 10m or less shallow water.

 

[cece]

you're right !!!!
But you was talking about a 30 meters dive. In less than 20 meters I use one leg, more I use both legs

 

[Murat]

Yes cece thanks for help. Karma for you...

But still not sure which one more efficient, stop kicking as soon as you reach negative or give it a few more kick to increase the speed? May be i should look somewhere else for answer...Seems nobody cares when you ask a real and serious question.

 

[Bill]

After following this thread let me make a few comments. The problem with trying to answer your questions is; all the answers are 'it depends'. I'll give you an example. If you are planning an aspetto at 20 meters, it is probably better to kick a little harder and get in position quicker if you are going to a specific position, but if you have to pick a spot on the way down the other way might be better.
The other question about reading the D3 may be a little easier. The difference between 0.6 and 0.9 may be less than you think, way less. Unless they have two different programs, it is written to accomodate metric and English measurements. In the feet mode, a depth increment of 2 means 0.61 to 0.91 meters and the meter would have to continuously alternate between 2 and 3 if you descended at 0.755 meters/sec. On target dives, I drop for about 30 sec and see something similar.
Aloha
Bill

 

[Murat]

Hi Bill thanks for tips.

I think i missexpressed my myself. I will try to give example to explain situation.

lets say grouper holed in 30 meters and i want to shoot that fish.With my suit on and with weight belt, i am neutral at....lets say at 14 meters and neagative at 15 meters. Is it more efficient to stop kicking at 15 meters or its better to kick up to 17-18 meters to gain speed so you can freefall faster to the 30 meters???


Since there is some attention i have other question as well.

Yesterday i did my first pool training. Unfortunatell i couldn't find anybody to assist me but anyway... The pool is 25 meters long shallow place is 1.5 meters and deepest is 3.5 meters. First i did underwater dynamic up to the end of the pool with no fins.It was pretty easy i did not even get contractions. On my last dive i decided to try to do it with packing to see how much easier it will be. This was my first packing wet exercise try, coz i was blacked out last time while tried it doing dry static, because of this i was little frightened about it but i said this pool should be safer than sea....Anyway i packed 5-6 times and dove, as soon as i am underwater my vision almost gone and felt numbed i couldn't feel my legs and arms but i continued to kick... i couldn't able to think anything that moment i just contined to kicking it was like i was kicking unintentionally...at the end of the 25 meters i felt better i start to feel my body and surfaced. Now what is this??? Is this happens to you as well while packing??? or there is something wrong with me???????

 

[£íáµ]

packing

plz not alone

i had several BOs only by stretching my lungs ...

 

[Murat]

so you mean packing is dangerous things and what i experianced is common for all of freedivers?

Are those packings only using for record breaking purpose?

 

[bluecape]

Hiya Murat

I'm not really experienced enough to offer concrete proof, but my impression is that packing is not really that crucial for spearing.
My bottom times when hunting vary greatly, but my rule of thumb is to return to the surface very soon if I have seen no evidence of fish. If I know / suspect that thewre may be action, I will do aspetto, but never to the point that packing will benefit me...it's fine on a PB Constant weight dive, or any deep freedive, but if you are using packing for spearfishing, you are pushing the envelope I would think. ( Also in terms of saving energy ??)

Thats just my opinion, as I said earlier...if all experienced spearo's pack..then I humbly apologise !!

Safe dives

Jeff