Need help of freedivers!!!

[Bill]

I think it is more efficient to kick softer and softer, starting at 10 and stopping at 20. That way your speed will be more constant. For 30 meter max diving, neutral about 10 might work better (that's recommended for target dives) and you definitely need someone watching you for a holed up grouper in 30. Back in the 70's, the three man Italian team died with a grouper in a hole shallower than that during a world meet in the med, if my memory is right.
I don't understand packing as much as I want to. Sometimes the first pack of a session, I start to feel like that and exhale right a way. Blood pressure and heart rate changes are probably involved. I've also seen a young healthy swimmer black out after diving into to cold water when he was warm and dry (very deep inhale but no packing).
That was a very dangerous dynamic. I would stop packing except for dry lung stretches and please, no diving or training without a safety.
Aloha
Bill
P.S. Just read Jeff's post and remembered that one of the best in the world told me that he only packs if needed for clearing.

 

[Murat]

ok then no more packing. I don't know what happened yesterday may be samba or something like that. All i know i lost control of my body when my dynamic was over i was at the end of the pool but not the point where i supposed to be. I surfaced from the wron place i made diagonal swim...:head

For being neutral at 10 meters, i think i should not decrease my weight from 5 to 4 kg but anyway i will findout it myself...

We also lost 45 years old very experianced spero this month who was trying to get the big grouper from small hole at 24 meters...He was alone

 

[£íáµ]

one of my Packing BO was in a pool. I wanted only to swimm 1000m. I was dehydrated this day and i had very low blood pressure. So i planed no dynamics, sattics etc., my buddy was invaited for a party. After a jump in the water in shalow area of pool ( 1,5m ) i wanted to stratch my lungs, before i swimm, i took a very deep breath ... so i gues it was to deep... and one pack, then i blacked out before i could breath out...
people though i did my statics again, but they didnt have any idea, that my buddy wasnt there, and i had no gear with me, normaly i take my sphera weights and fins ... this time i had only googles, So there were no statics or dynamics in plan ...
Anyway people noticed that something is wrong only after 2 - 3 min :waterwork nobody knows maybe 5 min, but i gues 1-2 min. My buddy was very angry, he told to me after it. I sent him home, because he was invited to a party.
I woke up in emergency room ...but after a week and several tests i went home. I tried to explain them how it happens (even if i could realy remember what happned after i took a deep breath and one pack ) but they wont listen to me. My dad told them about what i'm doing and how i train and about statics beyond 5 min ...
The midics ppl told me after 3 min static normaly braincells starts to die out. I realy tried to explain them what happens by static, about O2 % and CO2 % ... they didnt listened me ...all what they said, boy you are crazy

In this case, dive save ...
Adam

 

[Murat]

Haahah...

Then all the guys whoes doing 7-8 minutes statics are
brain-LESS rofl rofl :head :head IF the medics calculationsa re correct, top apnea people should not have enough brain to talk and walk:naughty

 

[Kars]

These stories show very much the 'hidden' dangers, thanks!

And about the doctors, they probably find themselfves way beyond your 'status'. As if they know everything...
The only thing you have learned from them is how stupid arrogance can get.

I know it's hard to resist training allone.


Love, peace and water!
Kars.

 

[jimbodiver]

be thankful

Adam -- just be thankful that you survived (whatever the docs say, or whether you were doing anything "wrong"). The main thing is that you're alive.

This should be a very good example (of what not to do) for people who don't believe there's risk in diving (or training) alone in the water. Even a lifeguard 20 feet away may not realize you're in trouble until too late - unless he/she happens to be looking at you when you BO, and also happens to recognize that's going on.

 

[O'Boy]

Packing

Packing woun't help you with dynamics. It will make it even worse since it makes your gliding worse. In dynamics, proper weight is one of main factors. Add some weight and than you can pack as you wish.
Try FRV dynamics w/o fins and you will notice the difference. Surely not in the distance (DON'T try MAX this way!) but in your gliding.
Inhale dynamics with packing will give more distance but only with proper weight.

 

[sumpa]

Re: Packing

Originally posted by Murat
Is this happens to you as well while packing??? or there is something wrong with me???????

If you pack too much then you might "squeeze" blod vessels (when your torso can't stretch much more, and you keep on packing), making it harder for the blood to flow.. So the black-out is not so much because the head recieves blood with low oxygen, but rather because the head recieves too little blood (even though you have lots of oxygen in it).

I often experience this if i pack hard, and for me it helps to stop packing, wait 5-10 seconds (then the dizziness goes away), and then pack a little more. Eventually i can do several of these pauses and pack even more, but i usually don't since i don't find it comfortable..

Originally posted by O'Boy
Packing woun't help you with dynamics. It will make it even worse since it makes your gliding worse. In dynamics, proper weight is one of main factors. Add some weight and than you can pack as you wish.

Packing helps (me) very much in dynamics, but only, as you say, with proper weights. When i do dynamics i wear a weightbelt of 2 kg around my waist, and a neck-weight of 1,5 kg. (That is a little too much for me, i should loose 0.5 kg around my waist, but i don't have any 0.5kg-weigths, only 1kg's) I pack maybe half a liter or so extra, and glide excellent through the water (3 strokes /25 meter).
Sometimes i start with this little dizziness from too-much-packing, but i experimented quite much with it so i know the difference (for MY body!!) between a "safe-dizziness" that will go away in a few seconds, and a "bad-dizziness" which may cause danger..
If i go for a max i often start with this almost-dizziness, because i don't want to waste 10 seconds just standing and holding my breath (my max may take up to almost 2 minutes... Anyone else do dymanics that slow???). But i recommend first staying home, stand in the bed and do this packings, so you learn the feeling and what happens...

 

[Pezman]

Another thing not to do ...

One of the games that I've taken to playing in the pool is to inhale deeply until I'm just slightly +buoyant, bear down so that I sink a bit and then relax so that I hover. Using this technique (alternately contracting and relaxing) you can hover in place for a very long time.

On one attempt, I packed a little too much at the start and was bearing down pretty hard n order to sink. At some point realized that I was on the surface having an LMC and that I wasn't thinking clearly at all -- no sense of alarm, but I calmly realized through the fog that I needed to rescue myself ASAP. Luckily I had just enough presence of mind to reach out and grab the wall.

That incident aside, hovering is almost as much fun as practicing bubble rings. Well worth trying, but make sure you have a spotter.

 

[jimbodiver]

Hey guys....several people have used the term "aspetto" which I believe means "I wait" (in Italian). Can someone please explain exactly what is meant when this is used as freediving term? Is it when you wait on bottom (e.g. if spero) before beginning ascent? Thanks in advance for the Italian Freediving lessons! ;-)

 

[Murat]

when i read you guys post, i realized that i have terrible efficiency. It takes more than 10 strokes for to get 25 meter distance, hovewer i stop sometimes to equalize. As i said i am doing this just for practice no need to get dynamic world record here for me. I just imagine it let me dive deeper when spearing.I know, probably i don't even have proper underwater swimming technique without fins but i can still do 40 meters that way

 

[O'Boy]

Technique

When proper weighted it takes me 4 strokes to swim 25m which is average.
Full inhaled without that weight I need 2 more strokes to get the distance.
However, my technique still isn't as good as I need. The key is your gliding which has to be done in perfect streamlined (but relaxed) position. Of course, you need also technically perfect and powerful kicks and strokes.

 

[cece]

Hey Jimbo, you' re right, ASpetto, is the italian meaning of waiting for fishes on the bottom !
Fishes are really curious animals and all the point is to drive them to you...in order to shoot them.

 

[jimbodiver]

Gratsi per la traduzione Italiana!

 

[flyboy748]

Murat,
Aspetto at 30m is impressive! Be careful though...

As far as having a samba or blackout after packing, I think you're suffering from hypocapnia. Check out this thread that I started after having a blackout while packing: http://forums.deeperblue.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=41422&highlight=hypocapnic+blackout

I've blacked out a couple times while packing, and had a few strong LMC's. Still happens sometimes, but I seem to have figured out how to beat them for now...

As far as kicking goes, I like to sink as soon as possible for constant weight line dives, but as I don't hunt, it's hard to say what would be best for what you're doing. Recreational diving where I'm trying to stay on the bottom for awhile, I still like to sink as soon as I can even if it means going slowly just because I love the sinking feeling. It also makes me more relaxed.

Safe dives!
Aaron