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negative packing

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wigma

Well-Known Member
Jan 5, 2002
20
2
88
I was recently reading Matt Briseno's training "tips" and came across "negative packing". Could someone explain what "negative packing" is with a brief description. Thanks ahead of time.
 

thin_air

Alphabet
Sep 15, 2001
404
27
118
is this the article you are refering to? if so there is a link to this link that tells you how to pack.
to do a reverse pack,
1. empty our lungs about half way
2. plug your nose with one hand.
3. fill your mouth with air from your lungs
4.exhale this air through your mouth, do this many times to get used to it
that was simply a pratice so you could get used to the idea

5. now empty your lungs as much as you can
6.keep you nose plugged
7. with our lips sealed open your mouth, your mouth should fill with air with some difficulty (this means it wasnt that easy to open your mouth)
8 now close your epiglottis, (find out how to do so in the second link)
9. exhale your air out of your mouth.
10 you just did one reverse pack.

this is very dangerous, to yourself if you start to suddenly, you could injure your lungs,
i have been doing this for about 2 months and only go down 5 feet with 10 reverse packs.

stephan, if you believe this is to advanced then feel free to take this post out. or add a disclaimer to this post.

good luck and take it easy
 

Cliff Etzel

Photographer & Visual Storyteller
Jul 7, 2000
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It is true that this would be considered advanced training techniques, but then again, caution is the key to putting this into practice.

When I frst did them, I made the mistake of doing both negative pressure dives too quickly and by the next day I had a pounding headache that lasted for 3 days!

That was back in late September of 2001. I am now able to get to 12 feet down and lay on the bottom for 10 - 15 seconds on a negative pack, and although it is tough, it does simulate the feeling of diving at deep depths. I have backed off on them for a bit and am now putting into practice some techniques Carlos Serra passed along to me from the IAFD that Pipin uses when teaching freedivers to comfortably dive to 100 feet.

So far, so good.

HTH,
 

wigma

Well-Known Member
Jan 5, 2002
20
2
88
Thanks Thin Air,

That description makes sense and helps significantly. Thanks for the reply. I will be careful when I do start incorporating reverse packs into my training. It will be a bit before that exercise becomes part of my training regimen.

Thanks again for yours and Cliff's replies.

Regards,

Mark
 

Jon

Dairyland diver
Supporter
Apr 7, 2001
4,080
473
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Cliff,
What other kind of things are you doing that you learned from Carlos? I know that they use a different breath-up routine. What type of training do they suggest?

Thanks,

Jon
 

Cliff Etzel

Photographer & Visual Storyteller
Jul 7, 2000
549
34
118
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I was able to get some detalied information sent to me regarding the upper level course training techniques that Pipin uses for teaching someone to dive comfortably to 100 feet/30 meters.

Whereas the Performance Freedive Clinic put great emphasis on hard core aerobic and anaerobic training as the bulk of the workout regimin, Pipin uses a more relaxed and control the physiological and psychological processes approach.

An example is doing two minutes of breathe up, followed by laying on the bottom of the pool til the first contraction, then swimming underwater to the end of the pool and back (Deep well is about 15 meters in length), all the while controlling the urge to breathe and maintaining a constant speed of about 50% effort. Repeat this for 10 cycles with a 30 second recovery before repeating the two minute ventilations.

This is just one small example and it isn't as easy as it sounds. I end up doing this and a couple of other drills and this takes about two hours including the yoga breathing and stretching I do beforehand.

As always, make sure you are doing any freediving skill with a buddy so that they can monitor you if you should black out.

Now back to work ... :duh
 

Jon

Dairyland diver
Supporter
Apr 7, 2001
4,080
473
188
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Cliff,

Which method has given you better results so far?

Jon
 

Cliff Etzel

Photographer & Visual Storyteller
Jul 7, 2000
549
34
118
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Originally posted by Jon
Cliff,

Which method has given you better results so far?

Jon

I don't look at it from that position. I decided that what I wanted to accomplish with my freediving wasn't so much as how deep I could go or how long I could really hold my breath. I am looking at it as a lifestyle choice and that no matter what I do on a daily basis, it is the best I could accomplish for that day. Each training session is different - some days I am in the groove and do very well, other days it's all I can do to keep from feeling like I am going to make it past 30 seconds underwater.

But I have to admit that I am leaning towards Pipin's form of training. I am reaching a point where I realized that I don't really want to go past about 60 feet in depth anyways, since I plan on doing a fair amount of freediving photography with my digital cameras, and the light get's pretty dim past that dpeth without serious lighting .
 

icarus pacific

Human-in-training
Nov 7, 2001
2,880
212
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Nice takes, Cliff.

I too, after looking at the various schemes, have had much success with the Pipen-esque method. It seems that having a task to perform AFTER that first urge kicks my body into more of a "we're OK, there's the surface up there so we got this one..," mode, and 45 seconds later, several meters of water has gone by.

Nice call on the better light at 60' too. Almost as much as at 25'.

sven
 

Jon

Dairyland diver
Supporter
Apr 7, 2001
4,080
473
188
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Let me rephrase the question.
Which one makes you feel more comfortable in the water?
I had tried some of Pipin's methods from an old video tape of his that I have. Things like:
-Hold for a minute on the bottom and then swim laps.
-Hold breath for a minute and then try and kick into the bottom- like an undewater push-up.
-Apnea push-ups on dry land.
It got me to 75', like he promised in the magazine, all on my own.
When I went to Kirk's clinic I learned about ways to clear my mask and ears at greater depth- my stumbling block at the time. I immediately added 25' onto my free immersion depth. I had also never thought that much about my breath-up.
Now I have seen , on another web site, about the faster breathing method that raises your pulse quite a bit. I haven't tried it yet,but would like to.
I am just interested in trying out some different forms. This almost seems like it is becoming another martial art with many different forms to master.
The whole yoga, relaxation, angle seems like another way to go about it. I start up my yoga training again next Wednesday night.
If you could give a few more details on how Pipn's method, and breath-ups, differ I would appreciate it.
I would also be very intersted in the differences that Pellizari and J.J. Mayol teach. I can see little freediving Dojo's being set up all over the world.:D

I also agree on better light up at 25'. I just want to also be able to untie the back up mooring line at 90'.

Jon
 

efattah

Well-Known Member
Mar 2, 2001
3,294
487
173
Freediving Dojos

I agree with Jon!

I can totally see what it will be like in 50 years. You walk by one dojo that teaches 'Wuji (Boundless) style Freediving', another teaches the 'Samyama style' or 'Modified Ferreras Style'. Books are written as compilations of all the different styles. In the news, we see that the first ever Goju-style freediver has made a world record, with his much doubted style. The honorable japanese 'Ishin-ryu style' freedivers are notorious for committing hari-kari after a dishonorable blackout.

Soon, each school begins initiations and secret rites, with each member threatened about revealing the school secrets. Rivalries form at competitions where it's not one country vs. another, but one school vs. another. Soon, the ninja style of freedivers form, up for hire to do devious feats.

Not that I want it that way...


Eric Fattah
BC, Canada
 

Frederic Buyle

New Member
Dec 22, 2001
31
27
0
Who is going to write the equivalent of the Myamoto Musashi's Book of Five Rings for freediving?

In every "school" there is good things to take. Nobody has the total knowledge. Even very good freedivers can learn something from a biginer.

I think we are on the right way, but I guess we will have very big surprises in the nexts years!

I remembered 3 years ago, just after Umberto's 80m, lot of peoples said that it was the absolute limit for CW. I said at that time that in less than 5 years, freedivers would reach 100m, and look, 3 and half years later, Herbert's not far, Eric showed also that it was possible to surpass 80m, and some other french and greek freedivers are on their way.

It has only be possible thanks to information's circulation. If we want to go deeper, we have to share informations.


Fred.
 

waxlips

Well-Known Member
Jun 8, 2005
91
1
93
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i just did a reverse pack and i'm sitting here enduring contractions as i type this. ok that was a long time (didn't count but it was amazing).
 
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