New gun for '05 JUST PLAIN WICKED!!! | DeeperBlue.com Forums
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New gun for '05 JUST PLAIN WICKED!!!

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GilbertG.

New Member
Jul 28, 2004
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I want to share some pics of my latest creations in my speargun venture. I've completed the first two production prototypes of a line of guns I plan on introducing to the market in the near future. Until then, I don't intend to advertise. I've built quite a few gun prototypes but none quite like these. These two guns will be tested in the coming weeks on actual dives.

I've described this gun in another thread as being a Euro gun for the American or vice versa. It blends both Euro and American speargun concepts so it is sort of a hybrid. I placed it in the American gun section because it is made in the USA, entirely. Its a deadly tool no doubt. Hope you enjoy the pics. Some are blurry, sorry I'm not a photographer by any stretch. I'll gladly take questions and comments.

Here's the link:

http://www.spear-diver.com/sneakpeek/


Told ya I was up to no good....

Mele Kalikimaka, Hau'ole Makahiki Hou!!!

Gil :D
 
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fly

New Member
Dec 10, 2004
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You have been up to no good :naughty
When you walk down to the beach with one of those and see the fish floating on the surface rest assured thev'e given up the ghost :D
totally sick guns!!!
 

defofthecrown

Morone saxatilis
Mar 8, 2003
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I expected something with that level of quality after your numerous enginering posts. Nice to see a US product that has some care put into aesthetics. Did you opt for the envirotek finish? How'd you like it? I'd love to see you experiment w/ some exotic hardwood combos to. Best of luck when you come to market.

The best part by far is the handle- looks great and strong. Is the hickory(?) inlay or solid reinforcement along the barrel?
 

Fish Tale

New Member
Sep 12, 2004
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Those guns are beautiful! Masterpieces to be sure!! Any fish would be honored to die on a shaft launched from those guns!

:)
 

GilbertG.

New Member
Jul 28, 2004
113
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Def, I stuck with the epoxy resin this time but I will be experimenting with the envirotex once I get my hands on some. Finishing is the biggest challenge on non-oily woods and I've had my share of failures. I'm working on a manufacturing process to infuse resin deeper into the grain of the wood. I'll probably offer a teak stock and cocobolo handle combination. I'll be working on one over the holidays.

The darker wood is the walnut. You could say its an inlay but its exactly 1/2 the thickness of the barrel on both sides, pretty thick. So it is both structural and decorative. Typical inlays done on purely decorative woodwork are usually very thin. If I were to cut the barrel, you would see an 'I' section similar to an I-beam.

Gil
 

mishu1984

Halla Waaaaallllaaa
Aug 15, 2002
1,164
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Gilbert,
those are some sweet looking guns. is it possible to use two 16mm. circular bands?
also, when are they going to hit the market?
 

GilbertG.

New Member
Jul 28, 2004
113
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Mishu,
I'm HOPING to get my website up and running with prices, etc. by the end of January. The muzzle can easily fit two 20mm bands and you can squeeze in 3 16mm bands if you try hard enough. I've selected some straight-grained teak for the teak proto and will begin working it soon. I'll try and post some pics in the next week or so.
 

normanhghntr

New Member
Dec 10, 2004
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Ill be happy to test them for you :wave please send both guns to Norman Vogel 808 Ashe st Key West fl 33040. all guns need at least a 1 year test period!!! when yourup and running put my name on the list those guns are beautiful,
 

Mark Laboccetta

Supporter
Supporter
Aug 16, 2003
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The entire gun is shaped using advanced CNC routing methods on a custom machine built from my own hands. I spent six months designing and building this machine to do one thing, make spearguns. It was well worth it. I used to spend at least twice the amount of time shaping a gun using manual tools. And even then, there was always inconsistencies from one gun to the next and the shape was limited to simple straight cuts and roundovers. I can now design entirely in CAD and expect accurate and precise cuts from the CNC router. Ahh, the beauty of computer aided manufacturing techniques. The only hand work I do now is sanding, finishing, and assembly. The CNC router does most of the dirty work.

Hi Gilbert,

Since I compelled you to share your opinion on the Teak Master America Omer in the Euro Vs American thread a few months ago I feel obligated to compliment you on your aproach of speargun making...It's new ideals and principles like the one's you're addressing that promote evolution of the sport and its products and weed out stagnant designs! Of course you have to remain practical too but your ideas are sound as I think it's an exciting production innovation.

And great by the way, that's just what we all need! another wooden gun maker on the block :D

What you mentioned above that I pasted from your website whether you new it or not is tapping into a new frontier for spear gun production aproach. I don't believe and I may be wrong that none of the other well known producers of wooden spear guns, production or custom, are taking advantages of CAD design capabilities and CNC machining for speargun production, which as you made your case, offers many advantages from quality control/production/costs/production quality consistency standpoint.

You basically cannot build a masterpiece wooden gun design and repeat it withut either costing a fortune by doing it one by one which is extremely labor intensive, or as OMER is doing with the Master America project which is also what you are re doing using modern production methods like 3D and 4D CAD Designs and CNC methods for production.

So for that I compliment you on your good thinking and wish you the best of luck with your new project ;) Ciao,

Mark

ps- I'm also a firm believer that although Epoxy finishes on wooden gun are very "pretty" they are not necessary with Teak. The beauty of Teak wood and one of it's greatest virtues is that thanks to it's naturally silicous content it repels and is unaffected even by the harshest of elements and marine environments over time and only requires a periodical touch of teak oil to give it back it's luster and shine.
 

GilbertG.

New Member
Jul 28, 2004
113
23
0
Mark,

Thank you for your words of encouragement. It's very meaningful coming from someone already established in this business. I for one am still trying to get my head above water. I've spent the last four years working on this project and I've yet to make a single penny. I only hope to get my wooden guns out on the market and sustain a healthy business. Thank god I still have my day job. I gotta feed my wife and kids somehow…..

I was hesistant to take the CNC approach at first because it involves enormous amounts of capital to purchase and maintain an industrial CNC router. I realized a $50,000 dollar machine would only be justified by large scale production. I'm just a small peanut with a garage shop, a relative unknown with limited cash flow. But I believed so wholeheartedly in the benefits of this technology that I took the plunge and built my own custom machine to my own specs. I paid a fraction of the cost but forfeited countless hours of my free time. I stopped tinkering with guns and focused my attention on this machine for six months. I have absolutely no regrets. Designing and building the machine was an accomplishement in itself. I'm back on the guns with a newly found motivation and a sense of excitement. I can hardly sleep at night. You know how it is, you're the entrepreneurial type. I've got the same bug.

I would've liked to have been able to say that I was the first to introduce a wooden gun that was fabricated from CNC. But Omer just flat out beat me to it with the Master America. I'm okay with that. Omer is forward thinking and willing to take risks, a philosophy and style of business that I like. I respect companies like that.

On the wood thing, yes you're right about teak being the best combination of strength weathering resistance and beauty. But it comes at a very steep price which gets passed on to the consumer. Prices most people have a hard time swallowing. So I plan to offer both teak guns and other hardwood guns at a more affordable price.

I've been working on a couple more prototypes for my Aggressor line. These two are winged to provide more buoyancy and shooting stability up front. I've already gotten some good feedback on the first two guns that have been in the water. Turns out they were nose heavy with heavier shafts. No better way to solve that problem but to add volume to the stock with what else? WINGZ! The first is a teak and cocobolo combination. Those wings were hand shaped and laminated on to the stock. This gun wasn't quite complete but I couldn't quite wait to give it a tung bath. :D He he he...
The second gun is the hickory and walnut combination with wings that were shaped by the cnc. It's sleek and deadly looking don't you think? Believe it or not it still needs to be laminated. The pieces fit together like a puzzle. The last machining operation is cutting the track.

http://www.spear-diver.com/wingedprotos/

Anyway, still got more tweaking to do. Hope you all enjoyed the pics.

Gil
 

TeakToys

New Member
Jan 6, 2005
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GilbertG

What kind of wood is used in the manufacturing?

Are they positive or negativly bouyant?

They look great! Just curious.
 

GilbertG.

New Member
Jul 28, 2004
113
23
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Teaktoys, the lighter wood is hickory, a dense American hardwood found most commonly in the Southeastern states. Much more dense, harder, tougher and stiffer than teak. By this same virtue it is heavier and less buoyant, not negatively buoyant. You'll see hickory used for hammer handles, axe handles, bows, hardwood flooring, etc. Its hardness and grain strength makes it very difficult to work with, dulling your tools, burning, and often "ripping out" violently if you don't push it through your power tools at the right speed. The darker colored wood is walnut which has about the same strength and buoyancy as teak. Walnut, like teak is very easy to machine. It is used a lot on gun handles and rifle stocks (i'm talking guns that shoot bullets). There are tradeoffs with every type of wood. Don't hesitate to experiment if you are building your own guns.

I know most hardwoods are positively buoyant but there are some exotic woods that are so heavy they actually sink.

Gil
 

JimmyB

New Member
Nov 1, 2004
20
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Jesus....those guns look awesome...im just starting out in spearfishing and have been thinking about building my own gun.....by hand though....i dont have access to industrial machinery hehehe....but after seeing those pics...im never going to get my gun looking anywhere as sweet as those.

Well done mate....keep up the great work.....and good luck for your future in the manufacturing business
 

cece

Froggy in the water...
Dec 3, 2003
148
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They are waesome, let me know if you come in France as I reall want to try a gun like that !!!!
 

GilbertG.

New Member
Jul 28, 2004
113
23
0
Cece, comment cava? I've always wanted to take a European vacation with France included. I'll look you up if I ever make it there.

Hey I thought this was a pretty cool site someone posted on spearboy. I can't understand the Italian (I think its italian) but the guy put up some really good pictures of his speargun project. Anyone care to translate? I think a lot of the DIY gun builders will appreciate the step -by-step pictorial description.

http://www.arbalegno.com

Very interesting how he laminates carbon fiber in between strips of wood.
 

Fish Tale

New Member
Sep 12, 2004
64
6
0
GilbertG. said:
Hey I thought this was a pretty cool site someone posted on spearboy. I think a lot of the DIY gun builders will appreciate the step -by-step pictorial description.

http://www.arbalegno.com

Very interesting how he laminates carbon fiber in between strips of wood.

Thanks for posting the link!

I like the gun builders muzzle solution! The balance of form and function within his gun is excellent! That being said I don't see a way to quickly remove the band for storage.

I've read somewhere that the carbon or glass fiber/ wood sandwich lamination is accepted practice when you want the ultimate in bond strength for a laminated wood product. Maybe overkill- but heck why not!

Not having any experience with open muzzles one thing has always puzzled me about the open muzzle with open track design. Can the gun be used for freeshafting while still using the line to retain the shaft in the muzzle/guide grove?

:)
 
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JimmyB

New Member
Nov 1, 2004
20
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GilbertG....would i be asking too much as to how you joind the pieces of walnut into the teak....thats beautiful craftsmanship.....also what type join did you use to join the handel to the trigger guard....id guess they'd have to be strong since you'd be manuevering the gun from it....and the final question...is the trigger guard the same piece of teak used for the barrel?? i mean...they are not two seperate pieces right??

i dont want you to give away your secrets but im just getting into using a router and enjoying it and ive been thinking about making my own gun....but it just looks so damn difficult
 

GilbertG.

New Member
Jul 28, 2004
113
23
0
Jimmy,

The walnut wings lay in a deep channel cut along the length of the barrel. Yes the trigger guard is the same piece of wood as the main barrel. The handle mates with the trigger guard with a lap joint and also has a tenon that fits tightly into a mortise machined up into the main barrel (this is hidden). Mortise and Tenon joinery is a strong method of joining two pieces of wood with crossing grain. The load in an M&T joint is held by both the geometry of the joint and the glue itself. Once its all laminated together its pretty solid.

Your router will serve you well. Its my favorite tool. Have fun!

Gil
 

JimmyB

New Member
Nov 1, 2004
20
0
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Gil

Thanks for all the info....with regards to the walnut in the teak...i was referring to the guns in the first site you gave us...the ones without wings....how do you join such pieces...i assume that the walnut has an identical pattern on both the left and right of the gun...in which case, did you use join both pieces of walnut together or dont they meet in the middle of the barrel??

Regards
James
 
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