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New Mares Force Pneumatic

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
A new gun borrowing some parts from the Cyrano range, but uses a new handle moulding and nose cone.

Force Pneumatic Speargun | Mares

Discover the Force pneumatic speargun: 13mm barrel, vacuum system, and ergonomic design for precision at depth. Available on Mares.com.
www.mares.com

The gun appears to have a metal piston and that means a metal shock absorber. Although the video seems to show a plastic piston initially! Mares probably found sales were suffering, so decided to make a vacuum barrel gun. It is using a rubber nozzle type vacuum seal and must have some new muzzle parts. Never heard of it until now.


 
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A few more images from the video.



This most likely refers to the piston tail and spine, so probably a Delrin piston. A plastic piston will use a plastic shock absorber.

  • Innovative 13mm barrel pneumatic speargun with a dry system which stops water entry in to the muzzle, making it more hydrodynamic, lightweight, and easy to move
  • Supplied with an ergonomic handle and neon-yellow Polygon-style grip
  • Internal barrel is offset upwards for a better line of sight
  • Stainless steel trigger and line release for better fluidity when firing
  • High visibility security lock
  • Handle with stainless steel pin for bungee
  • Strike horizontal reel compatible
  • 7 mm tahitian shaft
  • Carrying bag included
  • Available in 55cm, 70cm, 90cm and 100cm
 
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If they had added an extra slider ring seat for an 8mm spear I might have considered this as a replacement for my Cyrano 110 with Salvi muzzle. I'd like the ability to go thicker gauge for bottom dwellers on rocky surfaces. As it stands with my current modifications they're exactly the same gun. Not sure why they included an extra line lug on the muzzle?
 
The extra line wrap hook is probably because there are two, one on either side of the Salvimar Predathor muzzle. The Predathor would look asymmetrical and rather weird without it as they are out on the sides of the muzzle. On some band guns you can switch the line release to the other side of the gun and wrap the line on the other side, but you cannot do that on these pneumatic guns, so no real need for that other line hook at the muzzle. Whereas Mares used to be a leader and a pioneer this is a gun based on what others are doing. The Salvimar guns would certainly have played a part in their decision making.

Somewhat unsettling to see the sear lever depicted on an angle in the schematics with the gun latched to shoot!
 
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The fibre optic sight looks like they are either reading posts here or copied it from the LG-Sub guns. With point and shoot shots you don't often need a sight because you are looking over the top of the gun, however nailing sitters you can sight along the gun to squeeze off a shot.
 
It appears from this photo that the vacuum seal is yellow and it was shown that way on the diagram above. My prediction is that it will soon be black as carbon black in rubber adds to its strength, abrasion and tear resistance, that is why automobile and truck tyres are black. Coloured rubber although hidden inside the gun muzzle will be subject to loading and pulling as the spear tail stop diameter blasts through it. Here the nose cap is unscrewed and we are looking at the vacuum seal or cuff from the rear.
 
According to this the "new" nozzle is a product in cooperation with STC.



I read the current cup style seal is originally a Pelengas developed patent and borrowed by Salvimar although I am not fully certain of the origins.
It is a good all round system in my experience, haven't been let down yet.
Only STC design that disappointed was the Cressi Saetta Pro STC vacuum nozzle which has a plastic (delrin?) nozzle tip which deformed after a light fall in a boat, luckily I had a soldering iron available to shape it back into a useful condition. The seals are also rather flimsy in that iteration

Unfortunately the new Mares using STC goods most likely means their new Force gun will have a plastic tip too...
 
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This is from Italian forum, translated from member Saints Luke1:
"The vacuum is completely different from the others and uses a "Duccio" style lip seal"

Duccio makes his seals 3D printed from some kind of plastic filament.

Another interesting statement:
"I am doing destructive testing, zero maintenance and wash few times.
Gasket never changed and no problems."
 
The rubber nozzle or cup type seals were developed after people experimented with the valve oil seals on automobile engine valves, but the need to get a shaft through without damaging the seal if it had a tail stop spurred further development. The company that developed the thin lip type seals is Taimen in Russia and most seals now used resemble their version. The idea is that when you load the gun underwater some water goes in the inner barrel as the spear's tail stop pushes through the seal. This water stops the piston seals being damaged through sliding in a dry barrel. During the shot this small amount of water recombines to form a volume of water from the droplets and vapor in the vacuum barrel that blows the rubber nozzle open allowing the spear tail stop through without the seal lip touching the shoulder step on the shaft. Everyone has since copied it. I have two Taimen guns, so I know what I am talking about.

The Salvimar nose cap is alloy and traps their vacuum seal in the alloy muzzle. A similar but not identical system is used in the Pelengas guns, but the nose cap on their guns is plastic. Pelengas copied their nozzle seal design from Taimen. The Omer spawned Sporasub One Air has a metal nose cap, it has two decorative "O" rings that offer a grip to allow you to unscrew it. The Omer vacuum seal is an STC design that uses a valve stem type of seal that has no nozzle. I own all these guns and the STC is the worst system. Their new version in the Mares Force will be a copy of the nozzle type system.

This is the Taimen in its latest version.


It should be noted that the Taimen muzzle and nose cone are in a sense combined as the gun has a small diameter tank tube in order to make it very maneuverable in underwater vegetation such as reeds and freshwater plants with a lot of foliage that present tangling hazards.
 
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Reactions: Pjk
I had a go at straightening up the piston and sear lever in their innards image, so it may have just been a clumsy drafting error. You can click between the two images to see the change.

Not a fan of this handle, the shape is OK, but the over cover looks weird.
 
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I watched the video right through, which is in Italian. The guy runs through all the features of the gun, then compares it to a Salvimar Predathor Vuoto pointing out the metal trigger, line release and high mount inner barrel of the Mares gun compared with the concentric inner barrel of the Salvimar gun. Later on he shows the Force gun in pieces. Most notable is that the alloy muzzle has an "O"ring on the rear end that seals inside the nose cone, usually guns have a seal on the inner barrel nose that backs onto the rear of the nose cone thus covering the tiny gap between nose cone and inner barrel. Possibly the Force gun has both as there is the usual plastic annulus just behind the screw thread on the inner barrel nose end that locates the "O" ring when you attach the nose cone and tighten up the muzzle.

The vacuum cuff is yellow as seen before. What Mares didn't do was use a plug in line slide to align the shaft before pushing on it to send the shaft tail through the vacuum seal, an omission also made by many others. If you plug in the line slide first then you minimize damage to the vacuum cuff, but for that you need a combined stop ring and line slide.

Spear tail to muzzle alignment pre the loading effort

We have seen that the vacuum muzzle production gun pioneer Taimen devoted a lot of effort into getting the shaft accurately placed in the muzzle before commencing the push onto the shaft into the gun. This consisted of a relatively long alignment by the line slide or slider which plugs into the...
forums.deeperblue.com
If the spear is not lined up into the muzzle then this can happen in extreme cases, especially with longer guns.
 
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Italians don't like the new piston..
Here is what Arteasta say (in Italian):
"Credo che a volte le grandi ditte facciano ciò che fanno tutte le strutture: perdono per strada personale che aveva piena cognizione di come si era arrivati ad un determinato risultato e ripartono da zero. Così avviene che una struttura eccezionale, lo ho visto in alcune occasioni, si trova a cambiare personale senza passaggi di consegne e senza che chi arriva vada a studiarsi il passato sui documenti storici. E così dopo anni che avevano raggiunto un risultato, lo perdono e ti danno risposte poco comprensibili che mai ti saresti aspettato.
Anche a me questo del pistone suona come un errore, ricordo i terribili pistoni Cressi (è vero che lì di metallo ce ne era ancora di più) che tutti abbiamo sempre sostituito con i Mares..."
 
When the Cyrano Evo first appeared I made the comment that it seemed the work of those who had completely forgotten what the experienced men there had known for years, but was lost when they retired or died. Interesting to see this Italian author had the same thoughts.
 
I remembered that. That's why I put the quote.
 
Reactions: popgun pete
Pretty sure the new Force piston is machined in black delrin and the mushroom head metal tail with a rear "O" ring mounted in front of it with the conical wiper seal is screwed into the back end of the plastic. The front plastic body has a second "O" ring to keep water away from the metal tail, the annular recess in the piston body is intended for grease (don't bother). Single seal pistons are faster, but you don't want the piston to rock in the inner barrel. The previous all-molded Mares pistons may not have been up to vacuum barrel impacts, they have been made of various plastic types over the years, gradually getting worse.
 
Italians don't like the metal part with the O-ring on it. It is prone to corrosion. Many had problems with it.
 
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