Newbie Spearhunter

[Padaxes]

Hello all, newbie spear hunter here.

I`ve got to say this forum is a mine of usefull information, so thanks to all the contributers!

Reading this forum has highlighted several of the mistakes I'm making as a begginner, mistakes I'm now taking steps to rectify.

My spear, well you would laugh, homemade, bamboo pole spear, I`m in the process of sourcing materials for Mk II, which leads me to my first question:

Q1 : Is Carbon Fibre rod a good material for my spear, i'm looking at a 5-6ft, 12mm carbon fibre rod for the shaft. Will this be rigid/strong /heavy enough?



I've read a bit about spider crabs on this forum, I catch alot of them but always let them go as I dont think you get enough meat from them. I`m not sure I like the idea of twisting one claw off the males either, maybe I need to toughen up!

Q2: What size would a male spider crab have to be to make it worth keeping? Is there meat in the body or just the legs / claws ?


Finally (for now lol) I've just read the split fin debate thread, unfortunatly I ordered a cheap pair of split fins before I read that post as my old fins broke last week.

Q3: Are these split fins completely useless? Even for a begginner that doesnt dive that deep? If so why? Do they not have the oomph? I`m concerned by the comments about them being useless in currents I dont want to find myself caught short as the current round the cornish coast can be pretty fierce.

Any way, hope thats not too many questions, I`ll have to save the rest for later

Got to say though, although I`m new to the sport, have terrible equipment and am pretty unfit I`m loving it, caught a few small Pollack and they were delicious! A few near misses on some lovely Bass , only a matter of time.....

Damn thats it one last question....

Bonus Question: Is there a size limit on fish like Pollack in the UK ?

 

[Padaxes]

Well I`ve found the answer to the Pollack question anyway, 30cm seems to be the UK limit.

 

[DSRTEGL]

You are not alone. Did my first cold water in wetsuit dive a week ago and found out the hard way I did not have enough or the right gear. No fins, no dive ring, no weight belt..............Just me and my pole spear.

Once I fought through the thick kelp it was an eye opening experience for me though............Unusually good visibility for the north coast of California and fish everywhere.........Got sick of fighting the surge so I speared a nearby perch for dinner and struggled back into shore.

Built my first pole spear from a 6' solid fiberglass rod but at 3/8" OD I feel that it is not rigid enough as it bows when I put heavy tension on the band. This might affect accuracy but I plan to limit this spears use to smaller fish. I am making my second (8') out of graphite tubing 2 4' section which I will add a ferrule to so it can be taken down for storage. I also plan to make interchangeable tips (paralyzer/togglehead) that detach and are tethered to floats due to frequent visibility issues in my neck of the woods.

Hope you have a THICK wetsuit.......I lived in England for two years and the waters of your Cornish coast are COLD.

Derek/DSRTEGL

 

[Padaxes]

Lol yeah I`m wearing a 3/5 winter suit, boots, gloves and hood. Keeps me going for a couple of hours

I wouldnt go out with no fins though!

I`ve managed to source a carbon fibre rod but the price with postage and packing is prohibitivly high which is disappointing. I can buy a pole spear from the states and get it shipped to the UK for less than buying the carbon rod to build my own from the UK

 

[Whopperhead]

Padaxes - As far as the Split Fins go: I had a buddy who had them and he was kicking twice as much as me and not even keeping up. I was doing nice easy kicks and here he's kicking like hell-just to keep up. You're going to want a pair of freediving fins once you try someone else's. DO NOT TRY CARBON FINS!!!!! It'll cost you

 

[Padaxes]

My order cam through and its the wrong model, not the split fin ones after all, lol thats a lucky mistake isnt it They arnt long freediving fins but they will do me till I can afford a proper pair!

 

[DSRTEGL]

Lol yeah I`m wearing a 3/5 winter suit, boots, gloves and hood. Keeps me going for a couple of hours

I wouldnt go out with no fins though!

I`ve managed to source a carbon fibre rod but the price with postage and packing is prohibitivly high which is disappointing. I can buy a pole spear from the states and get it shipped to the UK for less than buying the carbon rod to build my own from the UK

Finally got fins.........only to find out that they did not fit over my booties so I will have to slip my fins over my aqua socks like a pair of slippers. They are skindiving fins but they will have to do for now. Wish I could help you with the carbon fiber rods but all I can get my hands on locally are fiberglass rods and graphite tubing. The parts for the graphite polespear I am making now put me back $25 for just the shaft components, but it should be a sweet one once done as I plan to use some of the same techniques I use to build fishing rods to fabricate it.

I would love to know what spearfishing conditions are like on the Cornish Coast as I never thought the water looked that clear there. In Northern California 12-15' visibility is not to common in the areas I frequent so I think for now polespears should do me fine. A solid fiberglass 6' for rocky areas and the 8' graphite for more open water.

 

[Padaxes]

Thats pretty cheap for materials, I`m actually starting to thing It might be easier and cheaper to make myself a hawaiian sling instead. I`ll just have to rig up a tether to my spears if I do.

We get pretty clear conditions in cornwall if you go to the right place. On sunday I went out and it was sunny and clear and I could see fish 40-50ft down.

 

[DSRTEGL]

Thats pretty cheap for materials, I`m actually starting to thing It might be easier and cheaper to make myself a hawaiian sling instead. I`ll just have to rig up a tether to my spears if I do.

We get pretty clear conditions in cornwall if you go to the right place. On sunday I went out and it was sunny and clear and I could see fish 40-50ft down.

You could always rig your polespear to have a detachable tip rigged to a float but you are probably looking for better range than you would get from a polespear.....You can also rig a Hawaiian Sling to have a trigger release which saves the strain on the arm and hand............Can send you a link when I get back from work.


Derek

 

[Padaxes]

I think I`m going to make a simple hawaiian sling for sure. Atm im concentrating on making my float out of a boogie board.

I think I`m going to get the biggest wrasse I can find today and try out this recipe...

http://forums.deeperblue.net/recipes-cooking/74881-spaghetti-wrasse-sauce.html

 

[blaiz]

Q1 : Is Carbon Fibre rod a good material for my spear, i'm looking at a 5-6ft, 12mm carbon fibre rod for the shaft. Will this be rigid/strong /heavy enough?

I would not recommend carbon fibre as a rod for a pole spear. For one the price will be very unnecessary. Most pole spears in hawaii are made from aluminum or graphite, or a combination of both. Aluminum is great for a pole spear as it has a good weight and punch and is nice and rigid. The problem with aluminum is that it bends easy. To combat this pole spear makers started making graphite spears. The graphite is a bit lighter than the aluminum and isnt as rigid. When a graphite spear is loaded its recommended that you twist the shaft as you load it so the rubber wraps around the pole. This makes shots more accurate and the pole wont bend as you load it.

Recently pole spear makers started making hybrids by using aluminum rod for the back 2/3 and graphite for the front 1/3. These utilize the advantages of both materials (weight and rigidness of aluminum and durability of graphite). Carbon fiber will be rigid all right but it wont have the weight needed. A light spear has no punch.

As far as the fins, they should be ok for getting started. I highly recommend a pole spear for the first while too. Its even better if you make your own. You will learn how to stalk and hunt fish very efficiently with a pole spear. You will learn how to be patient and stealthy (as it will be required to catch proper fish!). You will also have the advantage of personally knowing every aspect of your equipment.

 

[DSRTEGL]

I would not recommend carbon fibre as a rod for a pole spear. For one the price will be very unnecessary. Most pole spears in hawaii are made from aluminum or graphite, or a combination of both. Aluminum is great for a pole spear as it has a good weight and punch and is nice and rigid. The problem with aluminum is that it bends easy. To combat this pole spear makers started making graphite spears. The graphite is a bit lighter than the aluminum and isnt as rigid. When a graphite spear is loaded its recommended that you twist the shaft as you load it so the rubber wraps around the pole. This makes shots more accurate and the pole wont bend as you load it.

Recently pole spear makers started making hybrids by using aluminum rod for the back 2/3 and graphite for the front 1/3. These utilize the advantages of both materials (weight and rigidness of aluminum and durability of graphite). Carbon fiber will be rigid all right but it wont have the weight needed. A light spear has no punch.

As far as the fins, they should be ok for getting started. I highly recommend a pole spear for the first while too. Its even better if you make your own. You will learn how to stalk and hunt fish very efficiently with a pole spear. You will learn how to be patient and stealthy (as it will be required to catch proper fish!). You will also have the advantage of personally knowing every aspect of your equipment.

We are on the same page I think. My first freedive in cold water was an eye opener in more way than one. 12-15' visibility is often pretty rare around here and seeing the schools of black and blue rockfish swimming around really got me thinking.

I like the hunting and selective harvest aspects of the sport and hope I can make it work. I am thinking that my 6' fiberglass and 8' graphite pole spears are going to be the best bet for the shallow water hunting I am limited to.


BTW.....Recycled CD's/DVD's make GREAT flashers/fish attractors

 

[ILDiver]

The split fins Whopperhead mentioned were cheaper split fins if I recall correctly. I have Scuba Pro Twin Jets. Split fins develop good power, they have drawbacks too. Scuba fins will allow you good torque, quickness and manuverability. Long blades give you faster straightline speed and more power to push you up from greater depths when you maybe negatively bouyant.

Check out Oceans in Action II, Manny talks about how and why he uses short fins. Fins are tools, the right tool for the job.

I prefer my long fins even in shallow water, I can cover more ground. When on scuba though, the longer fins take more leg strength and your pushing more mass and resistance in the water. There are plenty of scuba spearos that use long fins as well, for tha advantage of speed to chase a fish.

The straight short scuba fins were always like plywood strapped to your feet. With a fin you want the water to go off the trailing edge of the fin, but with a straight blade water spills off the sides. So not all of your energy is going into forward thrust. So fins with softer mid sections came out, then split fins. The goal was to push a majority of the water to the back. The split fins also feel easier to move. So less energy is used to generate the same speed. This feeling of less energy makes people feel like the are not moving like the were with the traditional hard plastic fins. But compared side by side, you can see that you really are moving just as fast or faster. I can move comfortabley on scuba with just kicking with my ankles.

With long fins, you get different flex of blades to find the best fin for your physical build and kick style. Most of the carbon fins have ribs on the edges to help channel the water to the ends of the blade and reduce the spill over.

This also reminds me, I need to find the thread on the monofin. A guy cut his to make a split monofin.

Good luck.

 

[blaiz]

Built my first pole spear from a 6' solid fiberglass rod but at 3/8" OD I feel that it is not rigid enough as it bows when I put heavy tension on the band. This might affect accuracy but I plan to limit this spears use to smaller fish. I am making my second (8') out of graphite tubing 2 4' section which I will add a ferrule to so it can be taken down for storage. I also plan to make interchangeable tips (paralyzer/togglehead) that detach and are tethered to floats due to frequent visibility issues in my neck of the woods.

With the graphite you will find that it is also not rigid enough for a long pull with your rubber. When you load your spear spin it at the same time. This will wrap the rubber around the shaft and eleviate any bend caused by the rubber. The pole will spin as you release but this actually adds for accuracy.

Since you are making a two piece spear anyway why dont you try out a hybrid? I garuntee you will be happy with the results. You get great punch w/ aluminum, and when you have the graphite front half you dont have to worry about it getting bent in holes.

FYI if you want to make a cheap and extremely good grip you can do so with electrical tape.

Find out where you want to put your grip. Start at the bottom attach the end of the tape to the rod and pull out about 3ft of tape. spin the roll of tape so that the tape forms a thin cord (sticky side out) when you get a nice tight cord wrap it up the shaft spacing each wrap about 1inch (~2cm) apart. When you reach the top of the grip make one full wrap with the cord and then do the same thing back down to the start. The result will be a diamond shaped pattern ~1ft long. Once back at the start cut the cord and layer the whole grip with a tight wrapped layer of electrical tape. Works great, easy to change, low profile, CHEAP!

 

[DSRTEGL]

I think part of my problem with the fiberglass rod polespear is my use of a bungie strap as my propulsion and not the standard surgical tubing. I am reconfiguring it a bit and I like the trick of wrapping the band around the shaft!

Coastal conditions SUCK for my days off this week so I guess I will be working on gear.

I plan to cordwrap a hand grip for my polespear. Do it a lot with some of the saltwater fishing rods I build.

Really should do a Hawaiian Sling as well but I am not happy with my trigger mechanisms yet.

 

[alexrom1207]

Bungie strap will not work well at all, once you switch to the surgical tubing you'll find a much quicker and smoother pull than the bungie. On the subject of carbon fiber, the weight will make the spear basically useless, and the nature of carbon fiber is that it is very rigid and will snap and crack if bent too far, making it a horrible material for a spear.
On the fin issue. Split fins work really well for scuba guys because the tank and bc etc... provides much more resistance than a freediver. So the split fins allow some of the propulsion of the kick to dissipate (hence the water lost when the fin flexes and splits) when the load they are trying to push is too much. This prevents the diver from forcing his way forward and essentially plowing through the water and using up all his energy. This is the reason they feel easier. A freediving fin will not allow that energy to dissipate and for a scuba guy will not really move him faster because it just plows him through the water creating more resistance. Since freedivers are more streamlined they can afford to move faster and don't need a split because the fin flexes when the load increases and that is enough to prevent them from tiring themselves out. But stronger and heavier guys want stiffer fins because a soft fin will flex too soon for them and prevent them from reaching their optimum speed/distance at a reasonable kicking speed.
In the end, skindiving fins are just fine for shallow dives ( I used them for years and years). They are easier on the surface, easier to maneuver with, and will splash less when you dive down an angle (therefore scaring less fish away). I recently got some cressi gara 3000ld freediving fins and there is quite a difference in speed and distance. Leisurepro.com has them cheap if you ever decide to upgrade. But for starting out skindiving fins are a much less expensive and easier way to get started.

Happy hunting

 

[Padaxes]

Great replies thanks for the info!

I to am using a bungie on my bamboo spear. I will try and source some surgical tubing.... which is harder than it seems in the uk :/ What thickness should I get ?

I`m glad carbon fibre is a bad material because it costs so damn much! I`m having trouble finding aliminium tubing of the right bore, the ones I can find are all wardrobe rails and too thick lol. I`ve been looking at copper tubing though it might be too heavy...

The thing I`m finding frustratnig with my pole spear is that I keep missing the really good kills.

4 times now really juicy Bass have got away from me when I`m pretty sure I would have got them with a speargun, or probably with a hawaiian sling. Still like you guys say all part of the learning curve

 

[DSRTEGL]

Thats a pity Padaxes...........Aluminum tubing or Aluminium as you say in the UK is found at just about any major home repair store here in the US in a variety of lengths and wall thicknesses.......My concern would be he banding aspect of the aluminum as it is a _itch to get straight again.

I would offer to ship you some but I am afraid the freight charge would likely be prohibitive.

DSRTEGL/Derek

 

[alexrom1207]

Don't go with copper. Not because of the weight but 1) because the salt water will oxidize it over time and 2) because copper is at it's most expensive price ever right now. There was a report here in Rhode Island USA about thieves going under beach-homes (which are elevated a couple of feet off the ground to prevent damage in the event of a storm surge) and stealing all the copper tubing for their water systems. Crazy stuff. Not to pry but why don't you buy a polespear? I understand that they are not very expensive at all. Or do you just really want to build one yourself?

 

[Padaxes]

I am enjoying building stuff myself tbh. I`ll get there eventually I`ve learnt a fair bit on tonights trip out actually, I learnt how to sneak up on Bass in the seaweed after a couple of hours practising and hit a really nice big one, but it thrashed off my spear before I could grab it,

Pole Spear MK II will have better barbs

My plan now is to have the back 2/3 made of bamboo and the front 1/3 will be a speargun spear attached to it. That should do the job I reckon.

Still cant get hold of surgical tubing though Anyone know where to order it in the UK ?