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nice site about big big spearguns...

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Memo

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just a teaser
 

ivan

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hi

I dont understand why these guys build guns like this. They might want to land a marlin or Yellowfin or whatever but you dont need a gun like that what about some stalking and respect to the fish.

cheers
 

rigdvr

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Jack P. is the father of modern bluewater hunting! His experimental guns paved the way for what we now use. Yes he did go to extremes but how do you know where the best compromise is without going to the limits?

Im tired of this "learn to stalk better" bs, you dont stalk big tuna or marlin. You lie motionless in the blue and allow the fish to approach you. Anyone want to guess at the power it takes to penetrate a truly large(200-300#) tuna at 20'? Leave the railgun at home. If you guys think a tuna like that can be stalked, why havent you done it? Sorry for the attitude but this high and mighty learn to stalk crap has to end.

Next why dont we try to stalk bull elephants with pellet guns and leave those rediculous high powered rifles at the camp...just get closer and shoot for the temple...:hmm
 
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Memo

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take a break guys, I 've just wanted to point a site in which people can see how far the limits of experimental spearguns. I think they are a piece of art wheter practical or not.
 

rigdvr

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funny thing about those guns...did you happen to notice when they were built? Check it out, it will add an interesting twist for you.
 

Memo

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have you noticed the roller guns that Jack P. made... Brilliant innovation!
 

Murat

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Originally posted by Memo
I think they are a piece of art wheter practical or not.

piece of art indeed especially parachute float. Probably our mate IYA inspired from this. I don't want involve this Riffe vs Rob Allen business but i can see the pictures of the mans with huge Tunas and Marlins with railgun. Everbody has theirs own styles. No offense either manufacturer.


Actually this argument was very funny when Abri was around.:waterwork
 

Memo

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you're right everybody has their own styles, and good manufacturing desires respect...
 

Rat Cunning

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Big Gun does not equal big fish

I am a South African but have started diving in the USA. I have noticed that quite a few of the local divers have these massive unwieldy cannons that they swim around with, are hard to load, and are simply overkill in my view given the fish the diver is likely to encounter.

In South Africa we use rob allen guns which are small and tough and by comparision pretty harmless looking, but I think Rob Allen guns held or hold 7 world records, including the record for Marlin and Wahoo.

So having a big gun, does not neccessarily imply you will shoot big fish. In fact, I think, my limited experience of seeing local US divers is that its the opposite.
 

rigdvr

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actually the largest fish ever speared was done so with a Jack P. gun...one of the McGongle(sp?) brothers took a 700+ marlin. The largest tuna ever shot was with a Riffe (600 something pound bluefin) after he shot at some with his euro guns and could not penetrate the fish.

I am not saying that big fish can not be taken on RA's...in fact I have said before on this board that if I could have one and only one gun, it would be an RA. Luckily I can have more than one gun. What I am saying is that I am tired of the "you dont need that much gun" and the "if you knew how to stalk" crap. To each their own. Have any of you making those comments been to the areas of mexico where nearly all YF tuna records have been shot? You are lucky to get a 20' shot there, I dont care who you are.

I realize some of you are fairly new to the board and I promise we have done the "lumber" vs "euro" arguing before, but boy do I miss the days on here when both sides admired each other...if Sven and Abri could appreciate the differences we all can.:duh
 

w3ac

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This debate on rail vs wood can get pretty ugly so lets try to keep everything above the belt. To the SA spearos, how is the vis you dive in? The reason being, dirty water usually equals smaller gun right? If this is true then clear water would equal longer gun or so it would seem. Again what kind of hunting you do determines your weapon of choice. Good vis cave dives and low vis reef/kelp dives = short gun. Good vis reef and blue = big gun. Low vis blue water = ??. The way I understand it and please correct me if I'm wrong, the water in SA tends to be pretty low vis even in the blue. This could mean that fish would be more inquisitive and more apt to come into rai gun range. I have used a 100 cm rail gun with twin 16 mm bands and the range is sufficient for Hawaii's reef but too short for blue. Again water clarity may play a major role in weapon selection. Just my thoughts.

Brad
 

Murat

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Originally posted by rigdvr
actually the largest fish ever speared was done so with a Jack P. gun...one of the McGongle(sp?) brothers took a 700+ marlin. The largest tuna ever shot was with a Riffe (600 something pound bluefin) after he shot at some with his euro guns and could not penetrate the fish.

I am not saying that big fish can not be taken on RA's...in fact I have said before on this board that if I could have one and only one gun, it would be an RA. Luckily I can have more than one gun. What I am saying is that I am tired of the "you dont need that much gun" and the "if you knew how to stalk" crap. To each their own. Have any of you making those comments been to the areas of mexico where nearly all YF tuna records have been shot? You are lucky to get a 20' shot there, I dont care who you are.

I realize some of you are fairly new to the board and I promise we have done the "lumber" vs "euro" arguing before, but boy do I miss the days on here when both sides admired each other...if Sven and Abri could appreciate the differences we all can.:duh

Yes. I read Poula Gaspar's story also. He said that used 130cm euro gun with double 16mm but he get bent shaft and injured fish. Then the day after he ordered Riffe Island and he got the opportunity to shhot #650 blue fin from 1 meter right behind the gill plate. So the penetration was good and he got his fish.

All i am saying is we (at least sven and abri) made those arguments and honestly it was fun to read. Everybody had respect to other sides. So it never been ugly or dirty. If i remmember correctly most of the folk agreed that its possible to land big fish with both gun. Its just matter of choice.
 

Murat

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By the way stalking can be differs from area to area, isn't it???
May be you can stalk to wahoo in Africa but can not in Mexio coz of different habbitats.
 

w3ac

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Can someone explain to me how you "stalk" a fish in open, blue water?

Brad
 

Cingene

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I got one phrase for all this..."what's beyond the kelp man???"


;)
 

ivan

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Originally posted by rigdvr
Jack P. is the father of modern bluewater hunting! His experimental guns paved the way for what we now use. Yes he did go to extremes but how do you know where the best compromise is without going to the limits?

Im tired of this "learn to stalk better" bs, you dont stalk big tuna or marlin. You lie motionless in the blue and allow the fish to approach you. Anyone want to guess at the power it takes to penetrate a truly large(200-300#) tuna at 20'? Leave the railgun at home. If you guys think a tuna like that can be stalked, why havent you done it? Sorry for the attitude but this high and mighty learn to stalk crap has to end.

Next why dont we try to stalk bull elephants with pellet guns and leave those rediculous high powered rifles at the camp...just get closer and shoot for the temple...:hmm

Hi

Rig wait a second obvisouly we have very different pelagics and approaches to blue water. Our most common target bluewater fish in our queensland costal and offshore waters is the Spanish mackeral (Scomberomorus commerson) The techniques I use and most others use to get this fish involves both stalking and Aspetto. The Mackeral will often approach when we lie still hiding in the baitfish and depending on Visibilty they can be within 20-25ft away, I will then "stalk" my fish and close the range to allow sufficent penetration with my smaller gun.

Some of my dive buddies use the opposite approach and use 4-5 rubber bluewater wooden guns and use the same technique exept when the fish come in the 20ft range they simply use the range of their gun and shoot without having to move and "stalk" the fish.

I have never shot a marlin but have read LOTS of Marlin stories of both Australian and South african marlin and often in the stories the Marlin approach just out of range whilst the diver is at the top of a sea mount and they will then "stalk" the giant fish until they can get sufficent penetration with a smaller gun.

If I ever went to Mexico to shoot Yellowfin tuna I would definently leave my railguns at home and borrow some of my mates bluewater guns as what I have seen On video and read from Wr yellowfin holder and "Aussie" Greg pickering that these fish require the lie motionless in the blue technique and this is when you will need more gun simply beacuse the fish will not come in range of a weaker gun.

take it easy

:)

cheers
 

nebbian

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Can someone explain to me how you "stalk" a fish in open, blue water?

Ah ha! This is a question for the ages. Of course, with blue water you don't have the cover that most people associate with stalking. However this doesn't mean that it's not possible.

To stalk sucessfully, first you need to enhance your telepathic powers. Note that neoprene has been proven to reduce the effect of thought communication, so be sure to either pull your hood off, or cut a couple of holes in it so that the thoughts can make it to the fish.

Many people think that once you see a fish you have to think loudly at them words to the effect of: "Here fishy fishy, come here for a painless stainless steel injection". This is about the worst thing you can do. Basically you have to ignore the fish altogether, or pretend you're scared of it. If you think loudly "Oh SHEEEEEEEET I'm getting out of here!!" then chances are that the fish will pick up on this, and follow you to see what you will do next.

OK frivolity aside, there is a fair amount of body language you can use to make fish come in to check you out. The few times I've been blue water hunting I learnt to think at the fish. Of course there isn't any telepathic effect but your thoughts do influence your body language, which fish DO pick up on. I find it's all about pretending. Pretend to be interested in a flasher, pretend to be scared of that fish you want to shoot, pretend to be a squid, pretend to be an alien that's just sitting in the water bobbing around looking for intelligent life, but whatever you do don't pretend you're the apex predator, because your body language does give it away.

And also, keep a big smile on your face. I proudly use a 1.2 metre SeaHornet wooden gun, and it hasn't failed me yet :)
 

Cingene

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Hey this might work with the ladies also...pretend you are afraid of them and maybe they will get close to you?:inlove
 

Cingene

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Or would you rather have a gun with a big spear???:D
 
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