No-Fin Dynamic Swim Techniques

[Angus]

Weights and gloves

Greetings Ronda,

It is very nice to have a women's voice in the freediving forums. I would encourage to weight train and there are many specific weight training techniques that make a massive difference. Mark Spitz's world record times in the 72 Olympics would not even be good enough to qualify today because of weight training's impact on swimming. This is even more true for women. The other that I am getting interested in is the webbed gloves. But I agree that there is something that feels to wonderful when I have the big blades on am an cruising.

 

[clogz]

Angus wrote:

Anyway, another thing Octo and I are experimenting with is trying to use mostly arms to produce forward momentum based on the notion that this will use less oxygen.

One guy in our Freediving Team of Finland told me lately about his no-fin dives, he has done 80m (75m in 1'29") with just using his arms, legs hanging relaxed (110m with 'normal' style). He emphasized meaning of relaxation.

j

 

[thin_air]

Rhonda wrote:

I just don't have the arm strengh it takes to glide like you guys are talking about. But I'd like to be more seal-like. Any suggestions? I'll probably just have to stick to the fins.

you could always try to grow flippers, or just try to web your toes together.

juhaimmonen, what you are basicly saying is that this guy thinks that the arms are the most important part of the whole stroke?
I would agree but i also understand the idea of using your legs to conter-act the motion of your arms moving forwards.

i just noticed that under my name it says Deeper Blue Zealot, what does Zealot mean?

 

[Stephan Whelan]

Thin Air,

Originally posted by thin_air
i just noticed that under my name it says Deeper Blue Zealot, what does Zealot mean?

We have certain level's of member which is based on the number of posts you've made. You've reached the "Zealot" level...

However, to answer your question here is the Dictionary definition of Zeal and Zealot:

zeal noun
great enthusiasm or eagerness

zealot noun
A zealot is a person who has very strong opinions about something, and tries to make other people have them too.

 

[Rhonda]

Growing Flippers

I left myself wide open to that one! But, you know, it wouldn't be such a bad idea, then I could slip on a pair of Mark's webbed gloves and you could call me the Woman from Atlantis!

 

[Erik]

Originally posted by Rhonda
. Yeah, I have a little more "bioprene" around the hips than most guys(notice I said a little!) Rhonda

LOL....a new word for my vocabulary!
Cheers Rhonda,
Erik Y.

 

[laminar]

New Technique?

I've been training up here in the Klondike--the land of the "white silence," as Jack London once wrote--a place of freediving innovation...rofl and I think I've found a new way to swim underwater.

Well, it's a derivative stroke--I'm not scuttling along the bottom like a crab, or flicking my non-existant David Lee Roth hair like a lobster-tail.

I don't know what to call it--the stroke was only brought into the world this week after several months on incubation.

It's a no fins dolphin undulation with a strange corckscrew sculling motion of my hands. The NFDU SCCMMH stroke. Sounds like Klingon--Tom?

I feel like I have a monofin on when I do it. It's the weirdest thing.

I can cover 25m in 18-20 seconds with little effort. Which to me is wild because I sprint (no fins) on my back on the surface and my best time is 15 secs dolphin stroke.
I've done 50m easily and will try more when I have a lane to myself (crowded swimming pool) and my buddy.

It feels GREAT! The undulation is slow and yet generates momentum throughout my whole body. I am confident I could do it on an ascent with a bathing suit in warm water, even when negative because it seems to generate so much forward momentum.

I don't know what else to say but that I'm really excited. When I'm back in Vancouver I'll try to get someone to film it.

All I can say is that to do it you don't lock your arms in place over your head like with the finswimming stroke. This allows your head, neck and upper back more mobility and undulation. The hand sculling may seem too slow but it keeps momentum and drag is minimized (slow speed). The undulation is continuous and mid-amplitude.

I realize that this aren't terribly helpful instructions. I'll work on it more.

A happy father-what can I say?

:king

Pete
lovin' the Laminar Flow!

 

[Tom Lightfoot]

Hi Pete,

I'm pretty sure I saw a video clip of what you're talking about on the web several months ago. You've probably seen the same clip because Eric was quite enthusiastic about the idea at the time. I'm afraid I don't have the link anymore but maybe you or Eric still have it. Is your stroke much different from that? The other stroke seemed to have pretty high amplitude, but like yours, it had a hand scull with the arms at the side.

I tried it only very briefly and it didn't really work for me. But if you're making 25m in 20s then it must be pretty efficient for you. I look forward to seeing the stroke in action.

Tom

 

[laminar]

Tom-

my sculling is with my hands over my head in the streamlined position-the sculling motion feels like a corcksrew.

I've tried Seth Hopkins' technique a while back and it seemed to waste too much energy for me (I tried it for a month).

So now you see why I'm excited.

Pete

 

[Tom Lightfoot]

Well that does sound different! I couldn't tell from your first post where your arms were. Do you use the sculling motion to enhance the undulation at the front?

A lot of people do dolphin kick from the legs down. I think though that to be most efficient, you need to get the whole body into the undulation, right from the finger tips down to the toe nails. With fin(s) on, it is easy to get the hands into the undulation but without fins, I suppose you have to be more active with the hand motion, hence the sculling.

Thanks for the clarification, Pete! I can't wait to see you in action.

Tom

 

[IronLung]

Getting more to the breaststroke, not meaning to take attention off the "NFDU SCCMMH" stroke, sounds intresting though, but the underwater arm-pull, frog-kick seems to be most efficient in terms of efficiency of movement. I have found a video that shows the stroke as preformed by an olmypic breaststroke (Kitajima). The video also shows a slight dolphin kick thats adds that muhc more to the stroke. Using that technique I have acheived 114M no-fins dynamic, my time was 1 minute 46 seconds, in case youre wondering about the speed of ths stroke. Hope this helps. Oh yeah, heres the clip. http://www.swim.ee/videos/breast/DQ-legkicks-after-start.mpg
Good luck all, be safe.

Ike

 

[nickw]

I too have noticed that a bit of a dolphin kick after my frog kicks help propel me that little bit further.
But as far as arms go, do you guys pull to the sides like say a jumping jack, or more vertically down your body line with your arms straight out?
Also, how important do you think a speedo/swim cap are to dynamic distances?

 

[IronLung]

I pull out to the sides till my arms are a bit wider than my shoulders, then I bend my arms and turn my palms inward, my uper arms stay at about the same level as my body, maybe a tiny bit lower but not much, then straighten through the full length of my arms, I end the stroke with my palms on my thighs. Speedos as opposed to swim trunks, you might as well be wearing a parachute, speedos help a lot. Caps, hmm, I have not noticed much difference, it could help some, but loosing the trunks in favor of speedos will be a much more noticable change. Good luck with that, keep trying the arm movement described. You may feel it isnt as good at first, but don't give up, you will get a feel for it soon enough.

Ike

 

[subaquaticus]

I don't use fins either and have managed 75m once (with about 5 breaths hyperventilation). It took me about 1.5mins and haven't had the guts to try it again since! Will do soon though.
I regularly pull off 50m and I find that several warm up attempts of 25m with sufficient rest between each, makes the longer distances more achievable.

I prefer to glide with arms by my side until I've almost stopped. I find it much less strenuous and I can go longer before I start to feel the urge to breathe.

extremely interesting... but gliding with arms by your side until you've almost stopped requires a perfect weighting, doesn't it ? If not,then you tend to come back to the surface, which forces you to move in order to remain underwater...

 

[subaquaticus]

Re: Glide twice

I don't stop gliding until my buoyancy starts to pull me out of position.

that is the key point ! the more neutral you are the longer you can stay gliding...

 

[naiad]

Being neutral makes a huge difference. Excess buoyancy makes it hard work staying under, and can also make it almost impossible to glide. That is why I use a lot of weight for dynamics with a suit.

Lucia

 

[roy_nexus_6]

Getting more to the breaststroke, not meaning to take attention off the "NFDU SCCMMH" stroke, sounds intresting though, but the underwater arm-pull, frog-kick seems to be most efficient in terms of efficiency of movement. I have found a video that shows the stroke as preformed by an olmypic breaststroke (Kitajima). The video also shows a slight dolphin kick thats adds that muhc more to the stroke. Using that tecnique I have acheived 114M nofins dynamic, my time was 1 minute 46 seconds, in case youre wondering about the speed of ths stroke. Hope this helps. Oh yeah, heres the clip. http://www.swim.ee/videos/breast/DQ-legkicks-after-start.mpg
Good luck all, be safe.

Ike

If you watch Topi Lintukangas in his 60m UCB World Record video, you will notice a slight undualtion and a small dolphin kick after he extends his hands above his head after the frog kick. Looks beautifull and has a very efficient feel to it.

http://www.divingfree.com/video/

 

[subaquaticus]

If you watch Topi Lintukangas in his 60m UCB World Record video, you will notice a slight undualtion and a small dolphin kick after he extends his hands above his head after the frog kick. Looks beautifull and has a very efficient feel to it. http://www.divingfree.com/video/

interesting... but isn't there a big difference between DNF and CNF ?

In CNF, you must fight very hard with gravity : an additional dolphin kick is then more than welcome...

do you think that such a dolphin kick is also useful in DNF ? isn't it contradictory with the wish to glide perfectly ?

 

[roy_nexus_6]

during the CNF I suspect you could modify the amplitude of the dolphin kick, from hard and relatively big - when you need more power to take off from the bottom, or overcome the boyancy on the way down. To progressively smaller or none at all as you glide during the neg. boyancy phase, or approach the surface.

I use it when I do my DNF, because it feels good and I usually get better distances then the times I don't use it (allthou it is nowhere close to ironlungs 114m PB).

 

[Mala]

Hi, I am an absolute amateur, but have always been interested in this simple diving.
I am 43 years old, female, never trained in my life, ex smoker.... I can dive without fins about 50 m when I really make an effort.
Is this worth something, should I maybe start it as a hobby sport? Are there other more 'senior' groups where I could exchange and meet? Sorry, if I am in a completely wrong thread.