O2 use during Static WR attempts

[alastair]

OK, be cool, I'm not accusing anybody...

...but every time I see a video of someone smash a WR, I wonder how we can be sure that they didn't spend the last hour hooked up to an O2 tank.

The feeling is particularly apparent when they walk out of their own house and break the record in their back yard.

Is there an AIDA protocol that prevents this, or post static tests (??).

Just curious, that's all.

Thanks

Al

 

[rxcnc2]

Of course, and they apply to any competition as well as to WR attempts.

3.1.11
The athletes must appear before the jury at a designated place at least 60 minutes before their OT.

3.1.4
Any inhalation of oxygen and/or highly oxygenated mixtures 60 minutes prior to the athlete's performance
is forbidden.

I am not sure what kind of post-performance tests might be effective in detecting the use of O2 after the attempt.

You will find long threads about this subject elsewhere, particularly after David "magician" Merlini's attempt in Geneva 2009 and Mifsud's WR.

 

[efattah]

Breathing O2 for long periods an hour before doesn't seem to offer any advantage (I was suspicious myself, so I tried it at home and I got no advantage). However there are NO (!!) tests to determine what mixture of air the athlete is inhaling for the actual static itself. There are many ways that the athlete could be inhaling more than 20% O2 even though he appears to be inhaling 'atmospheric air.' The rules SHOULD require an oxygen sensor right beside the athlete's mouth all the way up to the final breath, and the judges should confirm that the athlete is inhaling 20-21% O2.

 

[Lil Dragonfly]

Yeah in the other thread someone mentioned something about people swallowing little oxygen bottles...

 

[rddk]

About swallowing oxigen bottles is not a good idea, david blaine tried it when he announced that he will breake the static world record, he failed and after lot of toughts he had the best idea ever, make the record with no magic but just with training, u can find the video when he explain it completely, so for static small bottles is not a working idea. David Blaine: How I held my breath for 17 min | Video on TED.com
that's the link to blaine's video i was talking is really nice!

 

[Kiwi GEE]

Few years ago i thought of a 'no limits' version of the static discipline.
May idea at the time would involve hypnosis, either via a coach, or inlaid with music and a yoga master perhaps as the guinea pig so to speak.
"contractions are very nice, you enjoy them".......
"you don't need air, it's so nice not needing it".....
"have a sleep,when you hear my voice, you awaken".....
"slow your heart down" etc etc.

But adding 02 into that mix, make for some amazing times i bet.

 

[trux]

About swallowing oxigen bottles is not a good idea, david blaine tried it when he announced that he will breake the static world record, he failed and after lot of toughts he had the best idea ever, make the record with no magic but just with training,

I do not think David Blaine swallowed any bottle at his first attempt (after spending a few days in the glass ball). There was no need for it - it is absolutely clear that before surfacing after his long stay underwater he had to breathe oxygen for a very long time, otherwise he would suffer a terrible decompression issue (despite the small depth). Hence he was pretty saturated with oxygen until shortly before his breath-up on the surface, where the surface might have been (and likely was) also saturated with a higher than normal O2 level from his regulator. There is no real doubt about Blaine using O2 at his first attempt. The sad thing is that he compared the attempt to WR of Tom Sietas with air.

His second attempt was fairer, since he told clearly he is going to do a O2 record. There are still great reserves in the O2 discipline (the Guinness record is still lower than times achieved experimentally decades ago), so it was not too difficult for him to break the record. However, unlike at the first attempt, he deserves respect for this one.

The ingestion of a bottle might remain a possibility, but a rather cumbersome one, and also risky. There are plenty of other possibilities where a cheater may hide a source of O2 enriched air, so its external use is much more likely. I agree with Eric that an air analyzer at WR attempts and at WR ranking competitions would not be bad. It is not so expensive that AIDA could not own one. On the other hand, if someone wants to cheat, he will always find a way. Still I believe it is better not letting it too easy for such people.

 

[rddk]

Trux sorry i expressed myself bad, about swallowing the bottle i was talking about the first attempt when he thinked to use the tube and ballon for rebreath the air, that is showed in the video when some doctors try to insert them into his mouth, and he said that thing thing was an insane idea that could not definetly work.

 

[trux]

a man must be born as a crook to ever had such ideas at all. That's why it is pointless to trust such people like Blaine or Merlini when they pretend doing real records - they have cheating coded in their DNA, and nothing will get such ideas out of their heads. I have nothing against illusionists as long as they do not step out of their sand box, and do not pretend doing real performances comparing themselves to real athlets

 

[rddk]

Lol infact he sayed that the crazyest idea was to do it for real, i mean if u have seen the video he said that was the most insane idea and also one of the experience that has changed his life. I mean i respect him a lot for what he has done, try to do it for real, also the video is really funny.

 

[Mullins]

i respect him a lot for what he has done, try to do it for real

So would you feel a bit cheated if it turned out he hadn't done it for real, and had been breathing pure O2 instead?

 

[trux]

Well, I guess rddk speaks about the pure O2 record, not about the one where Blaine pretended doing a plain air WR (after the ~week spent underwater). That was also an O2 breath-hold, just not presented so.

 

[rddk]

Yes talking about o2 record, i mean i know they had done better record years ago when they made the first studies, but at the same time i liked the fact that a guy putted his soul for some time to do somthing he has never done, that is freediving. I mean i liked him a lot when he sayed: If a man could do it, i can do it as well.
Obviusly i respect 10000000 times people like you that put lot of effort in trainings and spend lot of time and resources to make this sport better and share precious infos, but at the same time i liked the concept that if someone do somthing, why shouldn't i be able too?

 

[alastair]

How does the math work for pure O2 statics? It's not as simple as 5 times more available O2 - right? You have to factor in the additional relaxation due to low CO2 but factor out the fact that the O2 stored in the tissue is at best unvaried and at worst less accessible?
Is a special technique required, or do you just need longer training sessions..?

Also, I read somewhere (probably one of Eric's posts), that statics are potentially longer without a wetsuit as oxygen is absorbed by the skin. Can anyone quantify this effect? Would being emerged in an oxygen-rich chemical accelerate this?

Finally, how long after breathing O2 to saturation with the effect 'wear off'?

Ciao

Al

 

[trux]

Low CO2 at O2 breath-hold? Quite oppositely, at oxygen apnea, hypoxia is barely a problem, you fight extreme hypercapnia and hence it's closer to fighting the death by sufocation in an enclosed space (those people do not die due to hypoxia, but because of CO2 poisoning).

 

[trux]

As for the breathing through skin (cutaneous respiration) - on air it accounts for about 1% or less of consumed O2. An adult person consumes around 12 liters of O2 per hour, while only around 100 ml through the skin. The exact value depends on the age - according to this study, the maximum is at ~50 years (up to ~170ml vs ~100ml at 20-30 years). O2 is not very well soluble in water (typically around 9ml/liter = ~1% vs 21% in air), and you would not get it significantly higher. Hence the cutaneous respiration in water is negligible. Besides it, during a breath-hold the cutaneous respiration would be severely restricted by the vasoconstriction.

 

[Raph]

... David Blaine: How I held my breath for 17 min | Video on TED.com
that's the link to blaine's video i was talking is really nice!

The video you linked is actually pretty cool Rddk !

 

[trux]

What I did not like on Blaine's O2 record was that unlike the previous record holder Tom Sietas, he hyperventilated with pure oxygen through regulator while already submerged in significant depth (2-3 meters). This gives significant advantage - not only inhaling O2 under higher pressure (it means starting with some 25% more of oxygen), but especially the higher PaO2 accelerates the pre-performance hypocapnia, which is crucial at O2 records.

Hence, once again he cheated in a way, because he did not respect the same conditions that the previous records were set with. But then again, Guinness has no rules for their records, so it is legal. Just not really comparable to someone doing the breath-up on surface. Fortunately, Blaine's record was surpassed by a great margin quickly, so we do not need to care about it too much.