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OMER EXCALIBUR 2000 75cm REVIEW

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
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Murat

Murat

Promethian
Jun 21, 2002
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the advantage of alluminium is being cheap, but for 100+cm guns carbon barell definately worth the money.
 
ahoyhoy239

ahoyhoy239

As Seen On TV!
May 13, 2003
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The solution to all your problems are at hand!! Behold.....

A Rob Allen Railgun!

Comes in alluminum or carbon barrel, both come with rails for accuracy, range, and get this... NO barrel flex!

the bands are in the middle of the barrel with risers to align the bands with the shaft, and the bands can be custom made to fit you!

just kidding with the advertisement but seriously my 110cm has no barrel flex. in fact i dont think id worry about it until the barrel gets to 130cm and you pack it with 2 16mm bands.

By the way Snorkel Bum great review on the excalibur. i have a 90cm excalibur from 1999 or 2000 cant remember but it is a great gun. still has that butter smooth trigger and it swings great. i think the excaliburs are probably the best deal when it comes to smaller length euro guns.
 
Freediver81

Freediver81

The Arabian Stallion
Feb 5, 2004
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Hi snorkel bum!

great review!

I agree with you about changing the rubber bands! The standard rubber bands that come with the gun are a bit weak!

I also have the omer excalibur 75, omer excalibur 60 and omer excalibur carbon 110 all latest models!

I also have picasso aluminium 90 and Lanara 75!

A friend of mines dive shop had 50% off on the whole store! :duh


He has another sale like this now!

The omer excalibur carbon 120 cost me fore example 125$ us!!:D

All from the latest models brand new in the box!!

What I buaght in the sale was the omer 75 and 110!
 
Mark Laboccetta

Mark Laboccetta

Supporter
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Aug 16, 2003
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Rail or no Rail

Hey everyone! Hope you guys and gals all had a good summer/fall in the Northern Hemisphere with productive spearfishing! Did some good spearfishing this year but its never enough...

Over and over I've seen this topic of "rails" come up in spearguns and I just wanted to clarify the differences for those who aren't in the know if I could of the practical advantages and disadvantages of both systems.

A rail is a shaft guide either extruded in aluminum or carbon fiber or even wood, whatever the speargun barrel construction, or an applied shaft rail over the tube in plastic/polymer/nylon/delrin or any other similar exotic or non exotic material, that rests underneath the spear shaft and supports it.

The term "rail gun" applies to the above.

The main advantage of using a rail is for guns that use a non parallel band pull, they pull at a small angle from below the shaft axis, and the rail keeps it going strait all the way out of the muzzle during the shooting phase. This results in a spear shaft that is being pressed slightly down on the rail causing friction and even noise.

The noise is not that influential otherwise it wouldn't be used but it exists. An alluminum rail also causes more noise than a PVC rail.

Guns with -in line band pull- using screw in muzzles like the Excalibur don't need a rail since the shaft is parallel with the bands and typically a single powerful set of 16-20mm pure latex bands is used.

Theoretically a rail can be added to benefit the later (an Excalibur for example like the one pictured) when a second loop band below the axis of the shaft in the hole of the muzzle is added which then causes the pulling angle of the bands to change the shaft pull direction. The band pull becomes offset from the shaft now in other words.

WIth one pair of bands however, the advantages of avoiding friction and noise on the rail don't warrant the use of a rail. Even with two (a strait pair of bands and an offset loop band used in the hole of the muzzle), I've never personally been able to tell the difference to show you how marginal it is. Neither have the guys I dive with.

The term "shaft whip" is another buzz word you hear sometimes to imply that using a rail as a way to aid in reducing "shaft whip" (the vibrations in a spearshaft during the shooting phase), but with one or two band guns, it is also such a MARGINAL phenomenon that adding a rail to the barrel of the speargun doesn't warrant it.

This phenomenon of "shaft whip" becomes a player when you start using 4,5,6+ bands on a 5/16" (8mm) spear shaft for example...

It's a conundrum, a non sensical "in the head" quest for perfection, because adding a rail to a gun with only one or two pairs of bands will again cause friction on the shaft adding noise during the shot, and neither of these is really a problem worth addressing to begin with, they literally all cancel each other out in term of value.

So basically if it ain't broken don't fix it! ;) If someone tells you that adding a rail to a speargun that has strait pull bands makes the gun more powerful or accurate then ask them if they believe in the tooth ferry...

Lastly, some of you may know Omer now makes an open muzzle gun with loop bands instead of screw in bands in a few months we'll be selling an optional add on rail since people ask for them, a simple and inexpensive PVC rail with 3M tape on the back to complement it. When I get a chance to try it on one of the guns I'll be happy to report back if anyones is interested but I know that in Hawaii many divers already set up these guns with other after market rails since that is the trend there.

I am not replying or shooting down anything anyone said on this thread but wanted to mention the subject since I wondered how many peoples understanding wasn't clear on it and thought maybe it could help someone.

Clear waters to all,

Mark Laboccetta
Omer USA
 

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Murat

Murat

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Jun 21, 2002
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i agree with Mark on this one.

I used semi railed guns like old OMER MB/30, Shaft guided guns like T20 and excalibur, no rail no shaft guide gun like OMER Alluminum, railed wood guns. All guns used with either 18 or 20 mm bands with shafts 6.3-6.5mm and i extensively tested those tree types guns accuracy side by side and found no difference on accuracy, hovewer wood railed gun is most silenced gun coz of wod barell and having rail on it makes my shoots more confident.Its just mental thing nothing to do with real phsics.
 
Mark Laboccetta

Mark Laboccetta

Supporter
Supporter
Aug 16, 2003
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approved

Hi Murat, hope all is well and thanks for adding to my post. I hope you managed to see a few good fish this year in Cyprus and maybe ever spear a few of those fish with PHD's you have there...

I just spoke to the guys in Italy at Omer yesterday who were telling me about diving with Alberto March and Marco Bardi in Palma di Maiorca off Spain. They were testing new equipment and taking photos and March speared a few grouper between 48-54 meters. When I hear things like that it remind me how lucky we are over here to be able to get the same fish he was spearing in about 100ft shallower water :)

Ciao, Mark
 
Snorkel Bum

Snorkel Bum

Absolut Escargot
Mar 26, 2004
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Hey Mark,
Do you have any idea at all if these rails are available in Europe (France to be exact) because I can't seem to find any!! I really want to try out this rail business because I have never tried a railgun. And it is definalty something I should try out to finally get my firm opinion....
Thanks in advance :)
 
Mark Laboccetta

Mark Laboccetta

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Aug 16, 2003
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Rail

Hi Snorkel Bum,

I think the new rail will be out at the beginning of next year. You're right, it would be a good idea to see for yourself what it's like so you can form your own opinion. It's half the fun, ciao!

Mark
ps-here's a link with more pictures of it
http://www.omersub.com/data/spearguns/shaftguide.htm]
 

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T

T Ash

Freak on a Leash
Sep 29, 2004
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They are great little guns. I finally had the chance to get out and use mine a while back and love it. Mark is a great guy to deal with.

Tom
 
Murat

Murat

Promethian
Jun 21, 2002
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Re: approved

Originally posted by Mark Laboccetta
Hi Murat, hope all is well and thanks for adding to my post. I hope you managed to see a few good fish this year in Cyprus and maybe ever spear a few of those fish with PHD's you have there...

Ciao, Mark


Just check the photo section to see the results, take a look at the last 2-3 month...

Do you know if Alberto used pendullum method for those deep dives or he just made it with constant weight?
 
Mark Laboccetta

Mark Laboccetta

Supporter
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Aug 16, 2003
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Thanks Tom

I feel its my duty to show guys like you how to get into the sport, I was there once and if someone had just shown me a couple of the things I know today...I guess that's what makes the internet great.

Diving with a better diver will also help a lot, so come and dive with us next time we go brown water hunting at the CBBT islands this fall before the water temp drops below 50. Its still in the 60's now.

Murat, I'm not sure how March was diving that deep or what he was doing, but considering he's been a commercial spearo his whole life and has lungs of steel it's safe to say he probably doesn't need to use a pendulum, even at 45-50 meters. They were testing fins and taking pictures is all I know...

I'm surprised he's still fishing that deep personally after he got the bends the third time in Tahiti a few years ago.

Mark
 
T

T Ash

Freak on a Leash
Sep 29, 2004
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Thanks Mark, I'll take your offer up. Wish I could go this weekend but I have commitments.
 
Mr. X

Mr. X

Forum Mentor
Staff member
Forum Mentor
Jul 14, 2005
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Hi, I am new to spearo & looking to purchase my first spear gun & basic accessories (float, stringer, etc.). So thanks for the clarification on rails (saw a Rob Allen ad & thought it must be a good idea!).

I am UK based (Dorset, Devon, Cornwall, South Wales) and trying to figure out what to get. General advice seems to be 75cm-90cm. I notice than the Excalibur 2000 is available in 75cm, 82cm, 90cm & 100cm (among other sizes) -- I am thinking 82cm is a nice "split the difference" solution -- but maybe parts for this odd size (e.g. spears) could be a problem? Anybody tried these other sizes?

In truth, this is quite a lot beyond my anticipated budget but it seems that a few brands get consistently good reviews (Omar, Picasso, Riffe, Rob Allen, etc.) and a few don't (no names -- go check for yourself but an Australian brand & a French brand spring to mind). So -- would this make a good first gun, or can I (/should I) try something simpler/cheaper (in budget) first? Any thoughts on how the Excalibur 2000 compares to other guns of the same price. Anybody tried Imersion or Spearo, Imersion, Seatek, Spetton, (are there any Rob Allens in this price range?!).

I will keep an eye on this BB for replies but feel free to email any general spearo advice or links if you prefer.

BTW Does the Excalibur 2000 have a rail? Just a "muzzle rail"?
 
Murat

Murat

Promethian
Jun 21, 2002
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I used excalibur very good gun and perfect for begineers.

Get it with 18mm bands and 6.25mm shaft or stock 16mm bands with 6mm spear. Omer's new generation of guns are actually 5cm shorter than expected, to say it more correct way 75cm omer has 75 cm tube length not band pull length like old omers or any other euro brands.So i suggest 90cm gun which will have 85cm band strech but you can get better advise about this from local hunters.

There is also seatec gabbiano, may be slightly higer priced. Did not used any but from the speacifaction its seems more advanced than excalibur 2000 (owner of seatec is Vallerio Grassi whoes very good spearfisher himself and x-omer owner) with better shooting caracteristic (probably). But i am not sure if those extra good points of gabbiano will make use for you at the begining but later you will appreciate them for sure. :)

www.spearo.co.uk good shop in england with great advise :cool:
 
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Mark Laboccetta

Mark Laboccetta

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Aug 16, 2003
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Hi Mr X,

The Excalibur 75cm is a great gun for starters. As most will agree, carbon fiber is not worth the extra investment in practical terms for guns less than 100cm.

As much as you don't need the adjustable shaft guide it comes with one. They are mostly needed in the longer guns to stabilize any shaft sag in the center of the barrel. Since this gun is short and has the bands in line with the shaft it should not be of any importance but you can adjust it and place it anywhere on the barrel you find convenient. Also make sure to check that it's always properly in line with the handle and the muzzle.

Lastly, a lot of people don't know as it's not apparent right away in these guns, the safety can be removed for cleaning and flushing with fresh water of the mechanism or for simply removing it. When you put the safety in the "O" position it will pop out.

The 82 can use both the shafts for the 75 and the 90 even as well as the 82 shafts, although with limited vis that is common in the UK the shorter 115cm shaft of the 75 is probably better.

Mark
 
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iceselkie

iceselkie

where did the summer go?
Jun 27, 2003
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Well I just got back from using my Excalibur without the safety dial in, and let me just say what a pain in the butt, it rarely loaded! So folks, never turn your safety to O accidentally and lose it in the water... :(
 
miles

miles

BORN WILD!!!
Supporter
Jun 13, 2003
1,486
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Hiya

I've had the same thing happen with my 90 Excalibur!!

Iceselkie, most spearo's tend not to use the safety on a gun. With the Omer, i simply stopped using it. Problem solved!!

The reason most spearo's don't use their safety's is pretty simple. Quite often it happens that you line up on a good fish, then pull the trigger......and NOTHING happens!!! You forgot the safety "ON". After some choice swear words, you put the safety off, but its too late..... I lost count of how many good fish i lost that way, until a more experienced diver told me to remove or lock all the safeties on my guns.

We simply treat ALL guns as DANGEROUS and never point it at anything that we don't want to shoot. It's not advisable to TRUST your guns safety, not specifically refering to OMER, as safety's are known to fail. Both my Picasso guns safety's failed. When i put the safety OFF, the gun would automatically shoot!! Scary!!

Regards
miles
 
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Marwan

Marwan

Gear Buying addict
Supporter
Sep 3, 2005
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a wise man once said, the only real safety is having slack rubbers :)
 
iceselkie

iceselkie

where did the summer go?
Jun 27, 2003
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Yes, I know about the slack rubbers. But is there something I can jam in there that acts as a substitute for the safety dial so I can use the darn thing?
 
spaghetti

spaghetti

Campari Survivor
May 31, 2005
4,669
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iceselkie said:
Yes, I know about the slack rubbers. But is there something I can jam in there that acts as a substitute for the safety dial so I can use the darn thing?
Do the simplest thing: ask Mark Laboccetta. The "accident" which occured to you is very strange and peculiar (safe button lost while in the ON position, right?). I've recently sold my two excaliburs (which had served me very well), so I can't try personally to find a solution. Sorry. But I'm sure that Mark will tell you what to do if you ask him.
 
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