omer rail

[azapa]

i can see why it may be nice to remove the bungee, remove saftey and butt pad (less stuff to tangle and go wrong) but why remove a rail? what reason would it be? I guess you are talking of NON integrated rails, the plastic guide types in the center? I have seen these twist out of true so i could imagine them doing more harm than good.

According to the marketing, the integrated rail improves up/down rigidity whilst loading thicker bands. I suppose there, the effect is only on longer guns like >120Cm.

RON: Great DIY articles on your page BTW. Check them out!

 

[Ron Bakker]

Not so much removing the rail but those barrel collars. which bridles often hit as they pass it.

 

[phuketfreediver]

i have three beuchat guns and the rail is for the 110cm, This gun is great as standard and i really love the guns. The idea behind this is i am powering up to 2 bands because as everyone knows beuchat slings are c..p.i need some more hitting power for larger pelagics. I know i should really go for a 7mm shaft but due to post here in thailand being 50/50 ordering stuff is difficult.So all i can lay my hands on is a 6.75mm shaft, and i am afraid with two bands it will whip to much without a rail.

 

[Marwan]

if by large pelagics you mean over 50KG for example, the 7mm would be a toothpick, i would say you need an 8mm and 3 bands for that stuff..as a minimum...unless you are a deadshot and will kill shoot everytime

 

[Farang Shao Ley]

i have three beuchat guns and the rail is for the 110cm, This gun is great as standard and i really love the guns. The idea behind this is i am powering up to 2 bands because as everyone knows beuchat slings are c..p.i need some more hitting power for larger pelagics. I know i should really go for a 7mm shaft but due to post here in thailand being 50/50 ordering stuff is difficult.So all i can lay my hands on is a 6.75mm shaft, and i am afraid with two bands it will whip to much without a rail.

Try to get a Rob Allen shaft (7 - 7,5 ) or similar, I don`t know what brand is the shaft you can get, but a lot of the available stuff is not stiff enough IMO.The importence off a good shaft for a good performance of a gun is often underestimated !!
It was a big difference on this gun, when I changed a 7 mm desiage?:t shaft to a Rob Allen shaft !!

Did you tried short 20mm bands (f.i.megabooster) allready, must be sufficient for a 6,75 I think. Must be the right set up for Phuket-shores .
Where do you stay on Phuket Kamala ?

 

[phuketfreediver]

yes the 7mm shaft is the way to go, but getting one is the problem. so much post goes missing here and if i dhl it the price is through the roof.A friend is coming for a visit next month hes bringing some g20 rubbers and some bits but i cant ask him to bring 1.5mt spear. i have lived here in kamala about six years now.

 

[spaghetti]

Why not muzzle bungee? I notice the Rob Allen FAQ mentions that using mono means that it is not necessary, yet they fit them to most of the guns.

The bungee gives drag to the spear line and may really affect the accuracy, same as a swivel as well, especially on short guns.
On long guns, especially with powerful double bands and a heavy thick shaft, the drag of a bungee and swivel on the spear line won't make so much difference. But it does on the typical european set up of, so to speak, a 90cm eurogun with 16mm single band and a 6mm shaft: attach a thick rubber bungee with a relatevily heavy metal swivel to it, and your accuracy goes tits up.

 

[azapa]

The bungee gives drag to the spear line and may really affect the accuracy, same as a swivel as well, especially on short guns.
On long guns, especially with powerful double bands and a heavy thick shaft, the drag of a bungee and swivel on the spear line won't make so much difference. But it does on the typical european set up of, so to speak, a 90cm eurogun with 16mm single band and a 6mm shaft: attach a thick rubber bungee with a relatevily heavy metal swivel to it, and your accuracy goes tits up.

interesting spago ol buddy. Would you use a bungee and swivel on an omer cayman 90? 6mm sharktooth with 18mm power bands? If not, just mono from spear to muzzle? after this weekends comp. disaster :head:head I need all help I can get...

 

[spaghetti]

interesting spago ol buddy. Would you use a bungee and swivel on an omer cayman 90? 6mm sharktooth with 18mm power bands? If not, just mono from spear to muzzle? after this weekends comp. disaster :head:head I need all help I can get...

This is quite off topic but what's your disaster about my good friend?
..
However my 2 cents for your question: your need or no need for a bungee on that gun, depends on how big and strong are your target fish, and it also depends on wether you use a reel or not.
A reel with semi-open (or semi-closed) friction does the same job of a bungee, i.e. enduring the "pull" of the shot and the fight of the fish, reducing the risk to break the spear line.
If I had a gun like yours with identical set up, I'd rigg it this way: single loop (shaft 3x) of 140 monoline as a shaft line, AND a reel with the standard Omer braided reel line. Conncting the two: loop and crimp the monoline as normal, connected to the reel braided line by the special knot called "gassa d'amante" in italian (don't know the name in english) and there you go.
But it's just me and my small european fish....
Gassa d'amante knot:

 

[azapa]

This is quite off topic but what's your disaster about my good friend?
..
However my 2 cents for your question: your need or no need for a bungee on that gun, depends on how big and strong are your target fish, and it also depends on wether you use a reel or not.
A reel with semi-open (or semi-closed) friction does the same job of a bungee, i.e. enduring the "pull" of the shot and the fight of the fish, reducing the risk to break the spear line.
If I had a gun like yours with identical set up, I'd rigg it this way: single loop (shaft 3x) of 140 monoline as a shaft line, AND a reel with the standard Omer braided reel line. Conncting the two: loop and crimp the monoline as normal, connected to the reel braided line by the special knot called "gassa d'amante" in italian (don't know the name in english) and there you go.
But it's just me and my small european fish....
Gassa d'amante knot:

thanks spago. That knot is a BOWLINE in english, and one of my faves for soft rope and cord.

comp disaster: deep (>15m), cold 13C, bad viz 3 to 4m, no fish and enormous current! same for everybody though, although for some reason, the first division spearos were taken to a shallower area. I competed in second. Of 8 spearos in 2nd., only three got anything, and only one (not me) got fish that counted: a vieja of 3.005kg (minimum for vieja 3Kg!) I got 3 villagay, but all around 950g, min. 1Kg :head:head Most of the first class came out with nothing too...

Regarding my target fish: strong up to 12Kg. VERY STRONG in case of viejas and peje perra.

I don't have a reel so use my gun connected to float for now. Would you still recommend trying mono direct?

 

[spaghetti]

No no no. They will obviously break the line and swim away along with your shaft. Try the Picasso or Omer bungees, they're light small and lean. Like these:

 

[azapa]

thanks spago, i use the omer one, but my swivel and split ring connector is probably too heavy. I will try to reduce. Would you say 150Lb aprox mono to be OK? I have about 200Lb now but its way too stiff.

 

[spaghetti]

thanks spago, i use the omer one, but my swivel and split ring connector is probably too heavy. I will try to reduce. Would you say 150Lb aprox mono to be OK? I have about 200Lb now but its way too stiff.

I don't know Azapa, I don't even know how much 150 Lb weighs in grams....
I should have spent some years there hunting viejas and mulatas, have lost some shafts, lost some fish, discussed with local spearos, watched how they rig their guns, tried to copy the system and then made up an opinion of my own. I'm sure you do know well what you have to do with chilean fish, so much much better than me, but thanks for asking. If you have room for a guest I'll come over there in Chile and, after two or three years hunting viejas, I'll give you my 2 cents on the swivel question

 

[azapa]

after two or three years hunting viejas, I'll give you my 2 cents on the swivel question

:t:t i'll know in one or two years then! sorry to stray so far OT but some MAY find the q/a session relevant full comp report to come on new thread, when I have the pictures..

 

[Mr. X]

Nice rail Ron.

I don't know Azapa, I don't even know how much 150 Lb weighs in grams....

2.2lb in a kg - so about 68kg. Do you just tie those rubber bungees at either end? They don't look very strong or stretchy.

You only need a bungee when you miss rofl

I better stick with a big one then

The bungee gives drag to the spear line and may really affect the accuracy, same as a swivel as well, especially on short guns.
On long guns, especially with powerful double bands and a heavy thick shaft, the drag of a bungee and swivel on the spear line won't make so much difference. But it does on the typical european set up of, so to speak, a 90cm eurogun with 16mm single band and a 6mm shaft: attach a thick rubber bungee with a relatevily heavy metal swivel to it, and your accuracy goes tits up.

I can see that it would cause drag. It might well exacerbate the resonant vibration of the spearline that sometimes occurs when the water or speargun is moving sideways. Occasionally, the big game clip can rattle against the barrel (looks like the newer RAs have a plastic sleeve around the clip to avoid this). I can't see it affecting accuracy though -- unless you mean by making it harder to swing smoothly & quickly? The clip can sometimes invert or catch when resetting the spearline, although it can also help resetting the spearline, by allowing the line to stretch easily over the line-release. I must admit, I rarely wait for a fish to pull against the bungee. Although I made a conscious decision to try it with a largish mullet last season, as they are often feisty. It aborbs sudden shocks well, so less chance of the fish tearing off.

...
my cayman (regular aluminum 90) has lots of scratches on the rail, while my other omer with the stick on rail is clean, bear in mind that the cayman is a few months old, but the other one is almost 4 years old.. i think that naturally metal on metal contact (spear and built in Alu Rail) would produce more sound then metal on plastic contact (spear and stick on)...

Surprised your Cayman's rail is scratched. I just checked my RA railgun & it's still scratch-free. I think the idea is that their is usually a layer of water between the spear & the rail.

Foxfish - don't Mamba spears have little parachutes on the back to slow them down?

 

[foxfish]

If I use two wraps on my mamba 90 you get a real jerk on the line when the spear reaches its tether but with three wraps you just get a little pull!
I always use a shock absorber of some description, I guess mono works quite well when is is fresh (new) but I like bungees.