overtraining & rest days in static

[efattah]

Static overtraining (in me) produces:

- Fried central nervous system, including very early contractions, severe disinclination to hold the breath, bad feelings while holding the breath, severe depression, general weakness, poor & agitated sleep, general lack of energy, weakened immune system (easily get sick), inability to concentrate, poor memory, poor performance in static (low SaO2 levels after short period in apnea), etc...

 

[buddha]

Static overtraining (in me) produces:

- Fried central nervous system, including very early contractions, severe disinclination to hold the breath, bad feelings while holding the breath, severe depression, general weakness, poor & agitated sleep, general lack of energy, weakened immune system (easily get sick), inability to concentrate, poor memory, poor performance in static (low SaO2 levels after short period in apnea), etc...

Weakened immune system is what I feel the most after a couple of weeks of hard statics. I come in two weeks from 2:50 to 5:36 using the "no-warmup" for the very first time, but get sick after that...

 

[Kars]

Actually right after training my resistance to illness is low. Therefore I consume C fruit have my protein and carbs and preferably a nap to recover quickly.

Another nice thread! - Thanks!

 

[buddha]

I try to eat bananas or kiwis, and soy milk after the training to recover... any suggestions other than that? Today I'll begin the training flow again in the pool so...

 

[Kars]

The really important question is this.

$1,000,000 question:
What is better:
A) A 100% maximum static attempt, 4 days per week
or
B) 4-10 reps of 60-80% max per day, 4-5 days per week (perhaps with one max per week)


Training (A) is more specific, but lacks training volume. Training (B) has higher volume, but is less specific.

Which do you think is better?

Well to find out we need to understand WHAT we need to train in order to be able to do these long statics.

I think it's more than:

1) Low O2 tolerance,
2) High CO2 tolerance,
3) Lactic acid tolerance,
4) Cardiac ability,
5) Mind control,
6) Dive Response,
7) Lung volume,

What other factors do also apply?

These factors interact also, for instance a low CO2 tolerance will quicky put the mind and body to stress, increasing O2 consumption, Lactic acid production and the rest.

 

[buddha]

Lactic acid is also involved in a LONG static?

 

[efattah]

Oxygen consumption rate
Deeper levels of profound muscular relaxation
Decreasing Shivering threshold (lower body temperature = longer static)
Increased ability to resist contractions
More inflated cheeks to offload pressure from the lungs to the mouth

 

[kelp princess]

I try to eat bananas or kiwis, and soy milk after the training to recover... any suggestions other than that? Today I'll begin the training flow again in the pool so...

hey buddha - check out this pdf about acid balance and nutrition. it is an interesting read.

http://www.apneanutrition.com/acidbasebalance.pdf

and kale is a great veggie to eat to create the desired pH.

cheers,

kp

 

[Mullins]

Another question for static specialists: how much of a difference does overbreathing make to your max time? I've been doing some statics, more for a change than anything else, but with full-on (skin crawling, ears ringing) hyperventilation because I hate them. Decent times and coming up perfectly clean, but I've no idea what impact it's having on my potential times. In DYN I think I'd be losing at least 40m. 30-60 second penalty perhaps?

 

[buddha]

Kelp Princess: thanks for the info, I'm now trying to get through a more alkaline diet and also looking for good "post-workout" meals but, kale probably is not a good options at the pool

 

[efattah]

Another question for static specialists: how much of a difference does overbreathing make to your max time? I've been doing some statics, more for a change than anything else, but with full-on (skin crawling, ears ringing) hyperventilation because I hate them. Decent times and coming up perfectly clean, but I've no idea what impact it's having on my potential times. In DYN I think I'd be losing at least 40m. 30-60 second penalty perhaps?

For me overbreathing will cause a loss of 30-60 seconds as you say, depending on how much I overbreathe... that is assuming that I can hold til BO with underbreathing. On days when my CO2 tolerance is poor, then overbreathing gives the longest time, but when CO2 tolerance is good, underbreathing gives the better time.

I recall one apnea where I hyperventilated a lot, I got my first contraction at 6'43" and by 7'00" I had a borderline samba!

Two minutes of contractions is 'neutral' CO2 for me. If I have a samba with less than 2 minutes of contractions, it was overbreathing. If I underbreathe, it can take more than 3 minutes of contractions to have the samba.

 

[aris ioannidis]

Eric, i would chose pgm A - i think that specific training is more appropriate for me to improve apnea performance. It has worked two yrs ago when i was training for STA and it has also worked for me this year with dynamics.

For me overbreathing will cause a loss of 30-60 seconds as you say, depending on how much I overbreathe... that is assuming that I can hold til BO with underbreathing. On days when my CO2 tolerance is poor, then overbreathing gives the longest time, but when CO2 tolerance is good, underbreathing gives the better time.

Is there a way to decide whether you are on a good or poor CO2-tolerance day before your attempt? (for those who use a no-warm up approach)

 

[aris ioannidis]

David, in dynamics after my no-warm up max i cannot do more than 70% of max while in STA i could easily do 85% of max following a max.

i used to hyperventilate when i started freediving and blacked out only once. Lately, my breath-up is 4-5min with deep breaths (aprx 3 per minute) - this i think is still hyperventilation. Do you think that my dynamics could benefit by cuting this deep breathing out altogether?

 

[Kars]

Sounds like you need to get comfortable with higher CO2 levels. When you do, you'll relax better, and consequently can improve time and distance.

In my my no warm up statics, my contractions start at 2', or 2'30"on a good day and I can do 5' - 6'+ at the moment without specific training. So about 3' of contractions. My pb is 7', where I was in good CO2 buffer shape and had only very soft contractions happen from 2'30" on, so 4'30" of contraction riding.

 

[azapa]

(A) on Erics list works for me.

An interesting test during Umberto's course was repeat max's with a very short rest. At the end of the session (about 10 warm up holds) with just 30 second beathe up between max attempts, Feargus and I were both doing over 5:00 holds almost continuously. We stopped because we ran out of time but it was strange to pull of such decent holds with such a short time to recover between them. Contractions on the last ones came at 4:00. No idea what was going on.

 

[picasso]

Another question for static specialists: how much of a difference does overbreathing make to your max time? I've been doing some statics, more for a change than anything else, but with full-on (skin crawling, ears ringing) hyperventilation because I hate them. Decent times and coming up perfectly clean, but I've no idea what impact it's having on my potential times. In DYN I think I'd be losing at least 40m. 30-60 second penalty perhaps?

For me, it would lead to about 6:00 close to samba instead of 6:30 clear end dive. My contractions come with no overbreathing about 1:30. When I hyperventilate I able to pospone it to not later than 3:00 in no warm up dive.

 

[potapnik]

For me overbreathing cause about a minute less or even more. I dont know when to stop, contractions comes late, but at the end they are very annoying and I dont know if I could stay longer or not, samba occure often. It also happened to me when I did warm-up static. So I switch to no warm-up static (I use just a 4min breath-up - 3min of 5breaths per min. and last minute relaxing and packing) and my contractions start at about 1:30 to 2:30 I can hold them for about 5minutes (max sta little over 7) it is about 130 - 180 contractions. I train static just one time/week after my max Iam doing couple of 100 contraction statics (e.g. 5min) with short period between them 1:00-1:30. after 4 of them I have to do some work for my buddy and at the end Im doing one more max or at least 6+

Right now I would like to improve my static and I have no idea if I should do O2 or CO2 tabs or max attemt only.... First things is that one day a week is not enough probably. any idea how to reach 8min?

 

[buddha]

For me overbreathing cause about a minute less or even more. I dont know when to stop, contractions comes late, but at the end they are very annoying and I dont know if I could stay longer or not, samba occure often. It also happened to me when I did warm-up static. So I switch to no warm-up static (I use just a 4min breath-up - 3min of 5breaths per min. and last minute relaxing and packing) and my contractions start at about 1:30 to 2:30 I can hold them for about 5minutes (max sta little over 7) it is about 130 - 180 contractions. I train static just one time/week after my max Iam doing couple of 100 contraction statics (e.g. 5min) with short period between them 1:00-1:30. after 4 of them I have to do some work for my buddy and at the end Im doing one more max or at least 6+

Right now I would like to improve my static and I have no idea if I should do O2 or CO2 tabs or max attemt only.... First things is that one day a week is not enough probably. any idea how to reach 8min?

There's a thread in this forum named "Statics with no-warmup" where Eric and Laminar (and other members too) put a lot of info into this subject and theoretical training schedules. The thread is not very updated but worth the (huge) reading.
I'm also looking for a more updated info on training "no-warmups"
specifically so if anyone could enlighten us will be welcome!!!

 

[MikkoP]

I have noticed a strange phenomenon about hyperventilation dry statics and statics in water.

I can do my best dry static results with a couple of warm-ups and some serious hyperventilation. In other words, doing them Herbert-style. This way the contractions start around 5-6 mins but I can still endure them for about 3 minutes and have a clear mind in the end.

However, when I try to do the exactly same thing in water, it just doesn't work at all. I can manage to get the contractions to start around 5 mins, but I can hardly take them for 2 mins and often almost have samba only after 1,5 mins of them. Instead, I can do my best wet static results with no warm-up and some mild hyperventilation. I have found that there's not much difference in no warm-up results if I hyperventilate slightly (20-30 big slow breaths during 4 minutes before OT) or don't breathe up at all. But ventilating more postpones the contractions a minute or two, so I prefer doing it that way. Nevertheless, even doing the wet static this way it's still a minute worse than my dry static.

So, the difference between my dry and wet static results with exactly the same preparation (warm-ups and hyperventilation) is around 2 minutes. I also use noseclip in dry statics, so I'm not secretly breathing or anything like that while doing them.

Has someone else noticed anything similar? Any idea what is the reason for the huge difference, something to do with the diving reflex perhaps?

 

[efattah]

I also find that I need way more ventilation for a dry static than a wet static. Way more. Doing 'dry-style' ventilation for a wet static results in extreme hypocapnia and bad effects. My dry static PB is 22 seconds longer than my wet static PB.