Pelaj 1.7m Kanji vs Riffe Metal tech #5s

[Siam Spearo]

Hi All,
I'm very close to buying a Pelaj Kanji, 1.7m rail gun. I have heard good things about the gun and I'm used to using railguns as my current arsenal is made up of 90cm and 120cm rail gun as well as a 50cm and 75cm euro.

To be honest Matt, from aquastralis is a star and has been very helpful thus far, and I'd feel kinda bad for not following through with a purchase as I have already asked him for a quote of which I have no problems with. However one of my friends in the states told me to get a Metal Tech#5s and I must get the best gun for the job..... The job is taking big sailfish and maybe (fingers crossed) a small marlin:inlove I could use the gun for long shots off the reefs on the islands and I do open water, I wouldn't say blue water 3 times a year. Either way it wont be used as often as my 120 workhorse.

My question is which gun would be better at this job?I know they are both very different guns but they seem to be targeting the same task of long shots in clear water at big fish...

Any advice will be noted and much appreciated, I'm looking at making a purchace very soon.

Warmest Regards,
Craig

 

[Fondueset]

I can't say for that particular fish - I'm not a bluewater hunter. But the Riffe's do shoot differently than the euroguns - aiming takes a bit of getting used to. I also do not know whether the #5 floats. The Mid-handles are also prone to muzzle flip when overpowered, but you can get various wings and stuff to counter that. I know the smaller Metal Techs sink. They are incredibly sturdy guns though - and there is no barrel flex that I've ever heard of. Might check over on www.spearboard.com too if you haven't already.

 

[Siam Spearo]

Thanks fonduset,

I don't want to be spending more on wings etc... Anymore than this and I'd just get a hamilton or a wong blue water........

I don't see the sense in making a speargun that is not aimed directly at scuba to sink:head:head Surely we all look for a floating gun as a standard feature, I'll look into this but I'd imagine the bigger models would float.... If it doesn't I'm not interested. It's not worth the risk of dropping it in 700m of water!!! Surely the wooden versions must float, but again the price jumps another level.

I'm not sure what the range is on the 1.7 Kanji, perhaps someone on here knows, but the Riffe MT05S claims 7m, I find this hard to believe with the 3 bands, and I have heard that powering them up does result in heavy recoil and a lose in accuracy.

What do you mean when it will take some getting used to? Does a mid handle speargun project the spear in a different manner than a euro?

Thanks for the help

 

[Fondueset]

Aiming is different. It is generally said that euro style guns are more intuitive to aim. I own the smallest Riffe Metal Tech - it sinks but is not too heavy for freediving and works well in relatively shallow water - for deeper water I would hook it to the float line. In any case aiming it is quite different than a euro - though hard to explain. It just takes practice for it to become instinctive.

Muzzle jump on the mid-handle Riffes is pretty much documented when they are overpowered. There was a video awhile ago that showed this on a longer model - it results in the gun shooting 'low' if you are not used to it because it actually lifts the tail end of the shaft just as it leaves the gun. They are vulnerable to this because of the placement of the grip - both low and more toward the center of the gun. A good euro gun has a relatively high grip - so the force is transmitted straight back instead of rotating upward. My MT0 has no muzzle jump - but I have it rigged with a light shaft.

From my limited experience Riffe is spot on as far as range goes. If you want to power them up though you do need to customize them a bit. Some say the S models are already overpowered.

My experience is limited but if I were buying a gun to use only a few times a year I would stick with more or less the same style I was used to - since you won't be shooting it that often having to get used to it again every season might be problematic. Along with Pelaj - the Aimrite Venom is probably worth a look. The Pelaj is new but the company seems very dedicated based on posts I've seen at spearboard. Aimrite has an impeccable reputation as you probably know.

 

[Siam Spearo]

Thanks Fondue that is a real help, I didn't realise that it would take so much getting used to. I'll check out Aimrite, but if its going to be a railgun its most likely to be a pelaj.
Do you think a 1.7 i over kill for a sailfish?? I hear that 1.3 is more than enough, I have taken 12kg Cuda on my 120, no float line or reel, and cant imagine taking a 25-30kg Salie on a 130, with float line!!!:crutch:blackeye

What do you think?

 

[Fondueset]

I have never done any bluewater spearfishing - so I am completely unqualified to comment! I would post the question over at spearboard and see what they say.
I know a fellow who landed a 2 meter cuda with a highly modified MT0!

 

[Service @ Pelaj]

Siam

Thanks for the post.

The Kanji is our flagship speargun and is purpose built for taking big pelagics.

Having said that a 1.7 has a very specific application ie long range shots in very clean water.

It is very different in terms of handling loading and tracking to a Riffe which (also an excellent gun.) I think you will find the Kanji easier to load/reload and maneuver but the Riffe to have marginally more power. The Kanji also works without any add ons - ie out of the box and floats with the spear out.

You should get approx 5x the length of the barrel (measured from the base of your shoulder) effective killing range ie ~ 7-8m on a 1.7m gun.

We reccomend a bluewater gun of 1.3/1.4 as this allows you to use the gun in other application such as around reefs - 1.7 is really long.

We suggest the following guns in an arsenal 0.9 as a reef/dirty water gun, 1.1/1.2 as an all rounder and a 1.3/1.4 as a bluewater gun.

Of course you can never have too many guns......and if you were going to do a lot of dedicated bluewater hunting then a 1.5+ gun would be in order.

As a rule the longer the gun the harder and slower it will be to track - converesly the longer the gun the longer the killing range.

Hope this helps -let me know if we can assist.

Kindest regards

 

[Siam Spearo]

Hi Matt,

This is Craig, didn't realise you were on hear, you are active!! I just wanted to get some second opinions before I make a final decision on the kanji after my mate recommended a riffe MT05s.

I prefer the look of the riffe, but it is a different configuration to what I'm used to and as both yourself and fondueset have mentioned I don't have the time to get used to the difference in firing the 2 types of guns.

I already did my research on what rail gun I wanted looked at RA, Aimrite, Rabitech and Pelaj..... it came down to the RA and the Pelaj..... I'm going for the Kanji, something different and big as I'll ever need.

I have always wanted a midhandle but I'll wait for a wooden riffe for reef work early next year.

This is the 2nd time you have mentioned that the 1.7m is a very specialist gun, what specialist species is it aimed at? Do you think it may be overkill for a sailfish? I may encounter those Doggies I was telling you about or a black marlin, highly unlikely as I have no idea how to attract them other than flashers, but they frequent the drop off and imagine seeing one and not having the gear to take it!!:head

I want the 1.7 as I don't see the point in spending more for an extra 20-30cm on what I have..... your voices and opinions are more than welcome as always mate.

Cheers

 

[Service @ Pelaj]

Hi Craig

Small world.....

A 1.7 will really come into its own if you are in super clean water and wanting to take shots at very long range. It is a function of range rather than power.

We know of one customer who uses a 1.7 Kanji with a single very short 16mm rubber pushing a super fast 6.6mm spear that can shoot the eyeballs on a mackeral at ~9m. He regularly shoots through mackerel at full range.

The 1.7m is (to be perfectly honest) way too big for any other application but each to their own.

A 1.4 is a much more versatile gun and you could easily use this gun around reef in clean water. Think of a 1.7 as a long range sniper gun and a 1.2 - 1.4 as an M16. Both super effective but with very different applications.

The other option you have is to get two barrels, two spears and two sets of rubbers - all of the Pelaj components can be added/subtracted within minutes using a screwdiver.

Much cheaper than buying two guns and this way you have the best of both worlds.

Hope this helps.

Kindest regards

 

[Coral Sniper]

Hey Siam,

I was were you were once,And I chose a 160 carbon RA.
Long story short I cut it down to a 130 and bought a Riffe ''standard'' baja,(I bought the standard because I dont like the Mid handles) I was ''worried'' about not being able to shoot the riffe straight so I bought a wing for it.

Let me tell you That gun is a LAZER I shoot my RA and switch to the Baja and Perfect accuracy no readjusting,I use it with its standard setup 8mm shaft and 3 16mms!

Problems you may face with a long euro,
Your shafts are going to be ruined with a decent size fish,this is because they are so long 200cm+,Thats a lot of leverage!

Also even though it is long it still wont have the penatrating power of a powered up Riffe.

The Riffe standard is more money but it will serve you better in the long run,Thats what I believe.
Hope I am not confusing you,just trying to help.

 

[Siam Spearo]

Hi Matt,

I see what you are saying, I have been fishing at the drop off before and the vis was about 50m, a guesstimation as water that clear is hard to judge. How much is an extra barrel with a closed muzzle? I don't think I'd need an open muzzle on a shorter shaft because I'd bu using it around reefs too and prefer the closed muzzle for that.

Cheers

Coral Sniper,

Thanks for the heads up, I was worried about the shafts as well, i wanted to order an 8mm shaft but the biggest they have is 7.5mm in that length, something that concerned me a little too for the same reason.

How much was the standard with the wings, the full wings are an extra 800 bucks right? I really would like a teak gun but from what I have heard, for accurate shots these guns need wings and a bit more tweaking, which costs a bit more money, did you find this to be true with your standard? Is the wing set really needed?

Why didn't you get the competitor series instead and use the saved pennies to get a wing set?

Cheers

 

[Coral Sniper]

I think it cost less then 800 bucks with the ''pizza'' wing.
Thats all I did was put the wing on and used it the way it came.Very good accuracy
With great penetration and long range.

I really have not given it a good try with out the wings,I think I will try it tomorrow with no wings and a 7mm shaft and 2 16mms,for clear reef setup!

The main reason I went with the Standard was because of the thinker stalk,That should take the kick better then the competitors.

I had a C3 it was a good gun but a little small.I had 4 bands on that and it still shot pretty good.That might work well,a C4 and a pizza wing.(good idea)

I think you would be happy with teak,you can always oil it and it looks brand new!!
Riffes stuff is machined and laminated perfectly so its going to hold together very well

Your choice though,Good luck.

 

[Fondueset]

then again - theres always the Riffe euro

 

[Siam Spearo]

Hi Fondueset,

I have decided to go for a kanji 1.7m and a shorter barrel with a closed double tap muzzle, I will swap between barrels depending on where I hunt.

Job done.


Thanks for all the advice, I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[Marwan]

i dont know siam, big fish require power, to have both lots of power and accuracy you need to deal with recoil...so if you are typically shooting an 8 or 10mm spear ( ithink these are quite typical for very big blue monsters) the youre talking anywhere from 3-6 rubber bands..thats a LOT of recoil for you, the gun that would handle that has to have a lot of mass, non of the carbons or aluminums would do im afraid, only wood, guns from daryl wong, steve alexander, seasniper, riffe, tommy botha are particularly suited for such purpose...
you need to be realistic about your goals though, if by blue water you mean something in the range of less then 50kg's (still big), i think you can move to a 120-140 cm railgun with 2 or 3 bands and 8mm spear, in which case the rob allen, pelaj, etc...could be a very good choice...i have a rabitech 120 and wong magnum hybrid 55" (3bands and 16mm spear) these are my biggest guns and well suited for fish i go after...if im going for a trophy black marlin (over 200-300kg) i would probably look at something in the range of 65"-67" wood, 4-6 bands and 10mm spear with slip tip and a VER BIG float!
best of luck
just my 2 cents..

 

[seaman]

The 1.7 m is way too long. You are going to regret purchasing it in the first place. Get a 130 or 140 gun instead.
Still capable to land a big one but versatile enough to be used more consistently. If you want an alternative get a Riffe comp 3 or 3x, 4x or a Standard 4 . Laser like accurate and time proven rigs.

Good luck

 

[Siam Spearo]

Coral sniper, how did it go with out the wings???

marwan, I feel kind of silly to be honest with you. I have been reading on the net about people taking 50-70kg with 120cm railguns. I even heard about a guy taking a 170kg Marlin with a 120 railgun in SA!!! I think it was a record fish at the time.

I wanted a rail gun that would be capable of taking a 50-70kg fish, I'm going for a sailfish so thats what it needs to do..... after reading again and again that a 120 would be enough I decided the 170 will be enough and then some! We do have monster fish on the drop off, 200kg-300kg but I probably wont see them as I'll only be fishing the drop off for 48hrs, the rest of the time is reef and open water, not what I would call blue water.
I have a 120cm railgun at the moment but I'm going to go ahead and get the pelaj gear anyway as the trigger on my gun is crap, its an immersion, the white handle version and it's really poor quality. And I want something a bit bigger for those long shots and what i thought were monster(50-70kg) sailfish.

Anyways I'm sure your right about the wooden guns, it makes sense but I will probably not see anything over 70kg......... and I now know my place in the grand scheme of things.
Thanks for the advice and insight.

If I do get enough time off work to spend extended time in a hot spot then I'll repost a thread on here.

 

[Siam Spearo]

Hi Seamen,

I agree that the 1.7m is not going to be very versatile and will only be good for those long shots in clear water thats why i decided to get a 140 as well.... couldn't choose so i thought it best just to take em both instead

Wish me luck!

 

[Fondueset]

I'd just put a thicker shaft and a couple more bands on my MT0 and work on gettin real close Of course by then I'd have to have my Camera out and the gun would be hanging from its float line.

 

[Siam Spearo]

sneaky sneaky! Didn't you loose one of your MT0 that way??

You would love it here, I just got back from the reef today, bagged a 3kg sweet lips and about 6 Snapper all between 2-2.5kg, the freezer is full cause I am stuck in the city for a while and had to stock up. I saw a snapper about 1m long I had him broadside just on the end of range of my 90cm euro but the shot wasn't 100%, i tried sneaking up on him but he just casually swam off as I was getting close enough AAARRRGGGHHHHHH!!!! Sneky Sneaky is the best way sometimes!!