Pelengas Pneumovacuum speargun

[popgun pete]

In support of the Pelengas Company I decided to buy another gun, the Magnum 90 Profi which comes with the larger Trophy reel in this particular offering. It arrived about a week ago, but with rain and miserable weather I only got around to unpacking it this morning. Here are some photos once I extracted it from its shipping box which was film wrapped as well as sealed on the ends to prevent any unwanted interference. Here Customs X-ray everything, so they don’t need to open it up and that was obvious as I had to use a knife and Tullen cutters to get to the cardboard box.

 

[Zahar]

Never buy a Pelengas with an aluminum barrel! A short piston and the lack of a proper piston bushing leads to scratches at the beginning of the barrel! Can only be purchased with stainless steel!

 

[popgun pete]

This Magnum Profi gun has a stainless steel inner barrel, as far as I know only their Eco model has an alloy inner barrel. In ocean waters alloy barrels are adequate as suspended grit in the water is rarely encountered, unlike in a river or lake. One of my oldest guns, a Miniministen, which has had hundreds if not thousands of shots put through it has only pitting forwards of the front piston seal (when discharged) due to galvanic corrosion as it has spent a long time in the water even when carried as a spare with the gun discharged. It has a three seal metal piston when spare seals were no longer available for the original single seal metal piston. Any time I left it loaded on the bottom I shook it muzzle pointed downwards to let the grit fall to the front end before I next pulled the trigger. In these old three seal guns the front cone seal acts as a wiper shovelling any foreign material out of the gun. In their wisdom and maybe to sell more guns Mares eventually left the inner barrel wiper out as maybe the guns were too long-lived. I only stopped using my original Sten when the power regulator piston seal split, it being a mini rubber cone seal and not an “O” ring which soon replaced that seal in all later production guns.

 

[popgun pete]

You can see that mini-cone seal here.

 

[JonathanT]

Pete i am keen to hear of the pro's and cons of your Pelengas Magnum 90 Profi, as i am about to order one as well as the Salvimar Vacuum predator Vuato 85cm. I was going to order 2 of the Salvimars but the Sales person at the Speargun shop said the Pelengas is a much better built gun... Look forward to hearing your thoughts on it...

 

[JonathanT]

Pete
I also didnt quite understand what you meant by the difference in the Pelegas 12mm barrel compared to the Salvimar 13mm barrel: " The Pelengas guns are quite good, but are only 12 mm barrels, whereas the Salvimar is 13 mm, the ratio of the diameters squared gives you the advantage which is 169/144 which equals 1.17." ?

 

[popgun pete]

Pelengas has made a lot of progress in a relatively short time and has produced a number of models, moving into larger guns which once would have been thought too big.as 800 mm would have been considered long. The Pelengas Magnum 90 Profi is their Sten in a sense, but has a 12 mm inner barrel as against 13 mm and is also stainless steel tubing. Due to inland waters often having suspended silt the alloy barrel guns can have abrasion problems and wear out, but stainless steel provides protection against this. Like the Sten it has a see-saw sear lever or an "Italian rocker" as they refer to it. The Pelengas guns all began as vaumm barrels and this gun is the same. A vacuum barrel also helps with keeping abrasive stuff out of the inner barrel. In the marine environment it rarely gets gritty so we don't need stainless steel inner barrels. The Magnum has no easy loading dual power system, so it is single power. The gun does come with a spring stainless spears as they offer a consistently smoother surface to the vacuum seal making it last longer, but the guns must be loaded when wet and that includes the muzzle. Salvimar only offers that spear type on their Vuoto models for the same reason, any light rust on the spear will ruin the vacuum cuff.

I haven't used the gun much as I really bought it to help the company out as warmonger Vladimir Putin wants bragging rights for conquering the country. Hopefully that doesn't happen and the Russian public wake up to that schemer selling them a bucket of lies and get rid of him, he is just a troublemaker.

Going back to the inner barrel size the cross section of the barrel determines the force level for a given pressure in the gun, the bigger the cross section then the more propulsive force as pressure is force per unit area, e.g. pounds per square inch. If you want more force in the gun, and make it harder to load, then you put the pressure up. My view is whatever you can load against you put in the gun, provided you can still ram the spear in without bending it. A straight push is required in a controlled manner, eat your wheaties!

 

[popgun pete]

Pete i am keen to hear of the pro's and cons of your Pelengas Magnum 90 Profi, as i am about to order one as well as the Salvimar Vacuum predator Vuato 85cm. I was going to order 2 of the Salvimars but the Sales person at the Speargun shop said the Pelengas is a much better built gun... Look forward to hearing your thoughts on it...

The reason the sales guy said it is a better gun is that from the perspective of users in inland rivers and lakes the Pelengas will outlast the Salvimar, although the Vuoto should resist grits going down the barrel when you load the gun underwater. Virtually all the higher quality guns have stainless steel inner barrels in the Eastern Bloc countries. The Russian Seabear has a stainless steel inner barrel at 13 mm, and weighs a ton.

 

[JonathanT]

Pelengas has made a lot of progress in a relatively short time and has produced a number of models, moving into larger guns which once would have been thought too big.as 800 mm would have been considered long. The Pelengas Magnum 90 Profi is their Sten in a sense, but has a 12 mm inner barrel as against 13 mm and is also stainless steel tubing. Due to inland waters often having suspended silt the alloy barrel guns can have abrasion problems and wear out, but stainless steel provides protection against this. Like the Sten it has a see-saw sear lever or an "Italian rocker" as they refer to it. The Pelengas guns all began as vaumm barrels and this gun is the same. A vacuum barrel also helps with keeping abrasive stuff out of the inner barrel. In the marine environment it rarely gets gritty so we don't need stainless steel inner barrels. The Magnum has no easy loading dual power system, so it is single power. The gun does come with a spring stainless spears as they offer a consistently smoother surface to the vacuum seal making it last longer, but the guns must be loaded when wet and that includes the muzzle. Salvimar only offers that spear type on their Vuoto models for the same reason, any light rust on the spear will ruin the vacuum cuff.

I haven't used the gun much as I really bought it to help the company out as warmonger Vladimir Putin wants bragging rights for conquering the country. Hopefully that doesn't happen and the Russian public wake up to that schemer selling them a bucket of lies and get rid of him, he is just a troublemaker.

Going back to the inner barrel size the cross section of the barrel determines the force level for a given pressure in the gun, the bigger the cross section then the more propulsive force as pressure is force per unit area, e.g. pounds per square inch. If you want more force in the gun, and make it harder to load, then you put the pressure up. My view is whatever you can load against you put in the gun, provided you can still ram the spear in without bending it. A straight push is required in a controlled manner, eat your wheaties!

Ha, ok I start eating my wheaties now!
I knew you would give me a detailed answer thank you. More questions:
As far as weight when holding the gun out with one hand is it neutrally balanced in the water?
Being a 7mm spear does it bend easily or is it stuff?
The spare shafts for the Pelengas were 65 usd compared to 13usd for 85cm Salvimar. Quite a difference in price. I am wondering quality difference as well?
When shooting is it loud? Compared to a Salvimar Vuato?
As far as build, are the components a better quality than the Salvimar?
The sales guy was suggesting I change out the pistons of the Salivmar and replace with the Pelengas ones. He said they were stronger. Just wanted to hear your thoughts on all the above, as I am ordering guns and parts

 

[JonathanT]

I

Ha, ok I start eating my wheaties now!
I knew you would give me a detailed answer thank you. More questions:
As far as weight when holding the gun out with one hand is it neutrally balanced in the water?
Being a 7mm spear does it bend easily or is it stuff?
The spare shafts for the Pelengas were 65 usd compared to 13usd for 85cm Salvimar. Quite a difference in price. I am wondering quality difference as well?
When shooting is it loud? Compared to a Salvimar Vuato?
As far as build, are the components a better quality than the Salvimar?
The sales guy was suggesting I change out the pistons of the Salivmar and replace with the Pelengas ones. He said they were stronger. Just wanted to hear your thoughts on all the above, as I am ordering guns and parts

I Wanted to show you the issue I was talking about with my Salvimar Darkside, which I haven't used alot but had alotnof damage to the rubber seals and the muzzle itself

 

[JonathanT]

I

I Wanted to show you the issue I was talking about with my Salvimar Darkside, which I haven't used alot but had alotnof damage to the rubber seals and the muzzle itself

 

[popgun pete]

That damager does not look very good, the rubber has fractured as you get those cracks and chunks pulling off. The only thing that can cause that damage, provided the vacuum cuff is properly seated, is the stop diameter on the shaft tail catching and ripping the cuff. But it seems to me that you are operating the gun while damaged to tear them up so much. And the bend in the seating fence and a chunk busted out of it should not happen.

A couple of points to make, the rubber cuffs need a drop of oil or a light smear of grease which is essentially wiped off leaving just a gleam to make them slippery. After hours in the water rubber goes like that anyway, but not at the start. After every dive you should unscrew the vacuum cuff cover and wash the gun to get all saltwater out of there or have the gun upended and squirt it with a garden hose to get water in and out, flushing out any saltwater. With my Taimen I take the vacuum cuff out after every dive and pump the barrel with the spear and water to clean it right out as in their homeland they don't have saltwater on most their dives and saltwater sitting on stainless steel can corrode it.

When you insert the spear in the gun you should push the tail in and the stop ring to make sure the shaft is squarely in the muzzle, then you go to the sharp end and use your hand loader to push the shaft in. You need to control the gun's muzzle to make sure the shaft is not pushing at an angle. A gun that is too long for the user can make such control difficult and desperate pushing can cause problems because that control of direction is lacking.

 

[popgun pete]

Ha, ok I start eating my wheaties now!
I knew you would give me a detailed answer thank you. More questions:
As far as weight when holding the gun out with one hand is it neutrally balanced in the water?
Being a 7mm spear does it bend easily or is it stuff?
The spare shafts for the Pelengas were 65 usd compared to 13usd for 85cm Salvimar. Quite a difference in price. I am wondering quality difference as well?
When shooting is it loud? Compared to a Salvimar Vuato?
As far as build, are the components a better quality than the Salvimar?
The sales guy was suggesting I change out the pistons of the Salivmar and replace with the Pelengas ones. He said they were stronger. Just wanted to hear your thoughts on all the above, as I am ordering guns and parts

Cocked guns when extended out in front of you are slightly nose heavy, I cannot speak on carbon fibre tanks as I don't have one. The 8 mm spears are not as bendy as 7 mm, but the length is a factor, a short shaft will not bend much at all. I mainly use 8 mm shafts, 7 mm on the shorter guns. I don't like 7 mm shafts and 6.5 mm even less, unless the gun is really short. Fish receive more damage when you stick more than just a pin in them, so the bigger the shaft the better, commensurate with the gun's capabilities that is.

I am not one for mixing parts, except spear tips, on various gun brands. I would not put Ford pistons in a Chev, if the parts are available for that brand then that is what I use. And hand loaders can be swapped, some are better than others, it is what fits your hand best. In fact ditto for gun grip handles, some guns don't suit me and I stick with what I know for my regular use guns.

 

[JonathanT]

Cocked guns when extended out in front of you are slightly nose heavy, I cannot speak on carbon fibre tanks as I don't have one. The 8 mm spears are not as bendy as 7 mm, but the length is a factor, a short shaft will not bend much at all. I mainly use 8 mm shafts, 7 mm on the shorter guns. I don't like 7 mm shafts and 6.5 mm even less, unless the gun is really short. Fish receive more damage when you stick more than just a pin in them, so the bigger the shaft the better, commensurate with the gun's capabilities that is.

I am not one for mixing parts, except spear tips, on various gun brands. I would not put Ford pistons in a Chev, if the parts are available for that brand then that is what I use. And hand loaders can be swapped, some are better than others, it is what fits your hand best. In fact ditto for gun grip handles, some guns don't suit me and I stick with what I know for my regular use guns.

As far as build quality, does the Pelengas stand way above or?

 

[JonathanT]

Like for me the Dark side I didn't like because It didn't hold up to much use...
Maybe partly is me because at 5'9" I have to stretch more to load which causes the spear to go bendy on me and I sure that contributed to mauling the front muzzle and rubber tips.
But for my regular predator 100cm, uses a 8mm shaft way less bendy and no damage to muzzle as it's a wet barrel.

 

[JonathanT]

Like for me the Dark side I didn't like because It didn't hold up to much use...
Maybe partly is me because at 5'9" I have to stretch more to load which causes the spear to go bendy on me and I sure that contributed to mauling the front muzzle and rubber tips.
But for my regular predator 100cm, uses a 8mm shaft way less bendy and no damage to muzzle as it's a wet barrel.

For me a perfect size is between 80 and 90 cm as I can load on a single loading handle, and have more control when loading ...

 

[JonathanT]

That damager does not look very good, the rubber has fractured as you get those cracks and chunks pulling off. The only thing that can cause that damage, provided the vacuum cuff is properly seated, is the stop diameter on the shaft tail catching and ripping the cuff. But it seems to me that you are operating the gun while damaged to tear them up so much. And the bend in the seating fence and a chunk busted out of it should not happen.

A couple of points to make, the rubber cuffs need a drop of oil or a light smear of grease which is essentially wiped off leaving just a gleam to make them slippery. After hours in the water rubber goes like that anyway, but not at the start. After every dive you should unscrew the vacuum cuff cover and wash the gun to get all saltwater out of there or have the gun upended and squirt it with a garden hose to get water in and out, flushing out any saltwater. With my Taimen I take the vacuum cuff out after every dive and pump the barrel with the spear and water to clean it right out as in their homeland they don't have saltwater on most their dives and saltwater sitting on stainless steel can corrode it.

When you insert the spear in the gun you should push the tail in and the stop ring to make sure the shaft is squarely in the muzzle, then you go to the sharp end and use your hand loader to push the shaft in. You need to control the gun's muzzle to make sure the shaft is not pushing at an angle. A gun that is too long for the user can make such control difficult and desperate pushing can cause problems because that control of direction is lacking.

yes exactly what i was thining when loading and on first tries to use a single loader with my darkside and couldnt really do it. it was better with a double loader but again it has to go perfect (no angles) which at times i didnt have. Now i did wet grease the rubbers, but again they got chewed up easily. I did rinse each time but i think once the muzzle was damaged it couldnt hold the rubber in place properly and caused each new rubber to fail quickly. I did pourchase another muzzle at 82usd, rediculous price, but again the metal is very thin and that is what the base of the shaft is being guided by, way to thin. In the Pelengas is the muzzle way stronger so little damage can happen when loading spears even if at a slight angle?

 

[popgun pete]

I regarded the Darkside as a gimmick, in fact I said as much here when it came out. Pressure vessels are not carbon fibre, there are fibre wound metal tanks, but that is a specialist application for weight reduction in say aircraft. If the tank is very thick, like the Pelengas Carbon and the Dreamair, then that is a different story and carbon fibre is selected there for its weight and strength. One of my heaviest guns is a C4 Urukay and it has that mass to squirt 8 mm shafts and upwards out of it with three 16 mm bands or thicker. Not a gun for general spearfishing, I only bought it because the seller was trying to move stock and had taken a big chunk off the price. Those guns are well over a grand and are a chore to lug around on land because they are very fat, you can barely get your fingers around them.

The Pelengas is basically a new take on the Taimen which pioneered the rubber nozzle vacuum seals and it is essentially one size up from them in terms of inner barrel and tank diameters. They are not a big tank gun such as the Mares and Salvimars , but when you are swimming amongst weeds and sunken branches and logs you need something to poke through tight spots because the prey is often lurking beneath sizing you up as to whether you are a threat, or a meal when a big catfish is checking you out.

 

[popgun pete]

yes exactly what i was thining when loading and on first tries to use a single loader with my darkside and couldnt really do it. it was better with a double loader but again it has to go perfect (no angles) which at times i didnt have. Now i did wet grease the rubbers, but again they got chewed up easily. I did rinse each time but i think once the muzzle was damaged it couldnt hold the rubber in place properly and caused each new rubber to fail quickly. I did pourchase another muzzle at 82usd, rediculous price, but again the metal is very thin and that is what the base of the shaft is being guided by, way to thin. In the Pelengas is the muzzle way stronger so little damage can happen when loading spears even if at a slight angle?

That is not right, you need to look at the Salvimar muzzle in cross-section. Later on the shock absorber was replaced by a plastic version

The shaft tail is guided by the bore hole in the shock absorber body, as it is just a tiny bit larger than the spear tail stop diameter, in conjunction with the muzzle centralizing ring or stop ring on the shaft.

 

[popgun pete]

I think you have not been inserting your shaft correctly in the muzzle and that is causing all your problems. A wet barrel gun will not be too fussy as the shaft will eventually find the hole in the shock absorber body no matter how you shove it in, but you cannot do that with a vacuum barrel gun. The chewed up vacuum cuffs tell you that as the spear tail tang has just sheared them off. And at one time busted the thin alloy fence that positions the vacuum cuff.

Something to read. https://forums.deeperblue.com/threads/salvimar-vuoto-bushing-damping-sizes.119915