Penalties for breaking the surface - Dynamic

[Jesper Stechmann]

Found the answer - can I delete a post?

Hello,
How should the rules rgd. breaking the surface outside the grace zone (5 meters from the end of the pool) in dynamic be applied.
As I understand the update in the rules see below. A an athlete should only be deducted 5 points - regardless og the number of times a fin breaks the surface during the dynamic performance.

New Rules:
11.6.2If any part of the athlete's body surfaces outside of the “grace zone” of 5 meters between two turns in thedynamic disciplines, a penalty of 5 POINTS is applied. In the case of the athlete swimming a completelane/performance at the surface he/she will be disqualified.

Old Rules
7.8.2 If any part of the athlete's body surfaces outside of the “grace zone” of 5 meters between two turns in the dynamic disciplines, a penalty of 5 POINTS per occasion is applied. In case the athlete swims a completelane/performance at the surface he/she will be disqualified

 

[Jesper Stechmann]

I got an answer:

An athletes fins can surface multible times but only recieve 5 point penalty.

Thanks

 

[Jesper Stechmann]

Well - there seems to be multible ways to interpret the surfacing rule. So, I guess it's out in the open again.

 

[JennyWren]

I think it's pretty clear. For each lane in which you break the surface at least once outside the 5m grace zone at either end, you get a 5 point penalty. If you break the surface more than once between turns (outside the 5m zone) you still only get one penalty for that lane.

Example:

0m->25m, no surface break
25m->50m, one surface break within 5m of end of pool
50m->75, two surface breaks outside of 5m zone
75m->100m, one surface break within 5m of end of pool, one surface break outside of 5m zone

This would incur two 5 point penalties, one for the 50m->75m breaks, and one for the 75m->100m break. 10 points in penalties in total.

 

[Jouskari]

Personal opinion:

Pretty clear, but the rule would still need some fixing to enable fair judging and less space for interpretation.

e.g:

1. If the athlete swims the whole distance on ther surface between the 5 m grace zones. It´s still ok and would only cause a 5 p loss compared to someone that that only touches the surface and then(correctly) struggles to stay submerged.

2. The "between two turns" -rule makes the judging harder, instead of remembering each surface break, the judge has to take into account if the surface was broken between turns or after one turn. In a 50 pool and during a long comp this is harder on the judge.

In my opinion the v.11 rule was better and was changed for the worse. The only thing that would have needed changing was the amout of points penalized for a surface brake (should have been reduced to 1). And then should have had the line "no bodypart may brake the surface consistantly for more than 2 m between the grace zones". It would have covered all circumstances and been much fairer.

Also the grab penalty should be reduced to 1 or 2 points. It´s totally insane to reduce 10 m (5p) from someones result because he/she is taking support from the lane rope or similar while surfacing.

I think, that by already only reducing the penalty amount, the amount of protests would also have gone down.

There would be much less to achieve in protesting. If I loose 1 or 2 meters from my 200 m DYN dive for a small misstake, I might not risk the protest for such a small gain. Still, the penalty would be fair for the misstake I made and keep me from doing it again or trying to gain from it.

 

[Jesper Stechmann]

OK,

I think the main issue in this rule is that similar performances can give different points.

Some judges will give you 20 points penalty(40 meters) if you break the surface 4 times during a lane.

Some judges will give you 5 points penalty because it happened in the same lane.

Some judges will give you max 5 points penalty during the whole performance - regardless og the number of times you surface, and in what lanes you break the surface.

THATS A PROBLEM I THINK!

I agree, as I have heard - that the dynamic performance SHOULD take place underwater - this is freediving. - And surfacing should give penalty. How much doesn't matter as long as it's the same rules for everybody/everywhere.

There is nothing gained by surfacing or swimming in the surface - therefore it must be a question of being unexperienced or unfocused when a freediver surfaces. And the penalty could be smaller - but my main point is to have the same penalty for equal performances - no matter who judges it.

 

[Jouskari]

OK,

I think the main issue in this rule is that similar performances can give different points.

Some judges will give you 20 points penalty(40 meters) if you break the surface 4 times during a lane.

Some judges will give you 5 points penalty because it happened in the same lane.

Some judges will give you max 5 points penalty during the whole performance - regardless og the number of times you surface, and in what lanes you break the surface.

THATS A PROBLEM I THINK!

I agree, as I have heard - that the dynamic performance SHOULD take place underwater - this is freediving. - And surfacing should give penalty. How much doesn't matter as long as it's the same rules for everybody/everywhere.

There is nothing gained by surfacing or swimming in the surface - therefore it must be a question of being unexperienced or unfocused when a freediver surfaces. And the penalty could be smaller - but my main point is to have the same penalty for equal performances - no matter who judges it.

Totally agree. I´ve heard of similar cases where the v.11 rule has been applied and where v.12 has been applied but differently.

 

[poponabibo]

Its very hard to interpret surface rules. Maybe you could explain it more clearly.