Please help me train to hunt at 100 feet

[anthropisces]

My deepest dive ever was a 106 foot pulldown line dive. I would like to hunt at 100 feet during five or six hours of diving; is this possible?

I am 49 years old and am trained Fii level 1. I have recently started hunting as deep as 80 feet. My current "training" is to work on CO2 tables while sitting at my desk at work. I also keep myself in generally decent shape by staying active. I can hold my breath for about 4 minutes and 30 seconds sitting on the couch.

I dive every saturday in the ocean and have access to pools but have not used them. In the ocean I dive with buddies. I don't have a pool buddy yet.

I think I may be equalizing with Freznel but I'm not sure. I have been reading and re-reading the Frenzel-Fattah Equalizing Workshop document to prepare myself for more advanced equalizing techniques.

Can anyone advise me on some next steps that will help me achieve my goal to hunt at 100? There are some Fii level 2 classes coming up. Perhaps this should be my next step.

 

[Mullins]

It's possible, but a pretty serious proposition. To have effective bottom time in a genuine* 100ft for 5-6hrs of continuous diving with a good safety margin you need to be a very good diver. On the depth side you'd want to be doing line-diving to at least 200ft, preferably more. You'd also need to be quite fit to handle all the finning without getting tired and eating into that safety margin too much. FII classes are the way to go in my opinion.

Personally if I was focused on deep spearfishing I would train distance (DYN, CWT) up to a decent level (say, 125-150m DYN), then I'd concentrate on doing lots of reps at that distance.

* lots of spearos claim to be able to do this but only a few really can.

 

[anthropisces]

Thank you Mullins. Im really just looking for some next steps. I may take the Fii level 2 classin March.

 

[anthropisces]

Personally if I was focused on deep spearfishing I would train distance (DYN, CWT) up to a decent level (say, 125-150m DYN), then I'd concentrate on doing lots of reps at that distance.

Forgive my ignorance of freediving terms. I've been diving for many years but only recently have I focused on technical improvements so I don't know the lingo.

1) When you say train distance DYN,CWT are you advising me to train dynamic in the pool and then to train constant weight training in the ocean?

2) How would one do "lot's of reps at that distance"? Aren't we talking about finning during the dynamic pool training. Are you advising me to use a lot of fin strokes?

Thank you very much
Tom

 

[Mullins]

1. yes, constant weight being ideal if you can manage it and dynamic being the next best thing.
2. lots of repetitions of that distance. So whereas a freediver like me would focus on fewer, longer swims in order to improve max distance, a spearo would do more swims at an easier distance. Say, 6-8 x 125m then a whole lot of 75s. That's just an example, but it's the kind of ballpark you'd want to be in.

 

[efattah]

To add to what Dave said, if you want to do repeated active dives to 30m, in my opinion you would need to be able to dive to at least 75m (246ft) in constant weight (i.e. no pulling on the rope), and be capable of at least 7 minutes in a static breath-hold. Further, if you want reasonably short recoveries between dives, you'll need to train for that specifically, which would mean some type of interval training with relatively short/similar recoveries to what you plan on doing in the ocean.

If you do manage to dive to 30m repeatedly, remember you are risking decompression sickness. Be sure to educate yourself fully about that, unless you aspire to spend your life in a wheelchair...!

 

[growingupninja]

If you do manage to dive to 30m repeatedly, remember you are risking decompression sickness. Be sure to educate yourself fully about that, unless you aspire to spend your life in a wheelchair...!

I never used to worry about deco sickness since I am after-all never diving with tanks, but I do hear of deep diving spearos getting bent, and as my dives get deeper I have started to wonder when it can become a factor and what--in addition to generally safe freediving technique--can be done to avoid it? I am not diving all day at 100ft; for spearing in SoCal with 15ft viz it's hardly worth it, but my conditioning is relatively good and when I am in warmer, clearer water, I find my depths go up dramatically.

Edit: nevermind.. I should learn to use the search function... Thanks for the info.

 

[anthropisces]

My first goal will be to extend my bottom times at 80 feet. Ive only recently started hunting at that depth. I am not hunting at 80 for the whole day though. Last time out I did perhaps 9 drops to 80 (77 actually). My typical dive lasts less than 1.5 minutes at that depth. That doesnt give me much time at the bottom. My surface intervals were in the range of 3.5 minutes. Id like to extend my dive times at 80 to 2 minutes. I think it would be great to hunt at 100. I doubt Id ever do it all day in light of the comments by Mullins and Fattah. I do have a bit of a natural apnea ability I think tho so maybe some day Ill be able to do four or five drops to 100 over the course of a day. Right now Im looking for a pool.

 

[hank49]

My first goal will be to extend my bottom times at 80 feet. Ive only recently started hunting at that depth. I am not hunting at 80 for the whole day though. Last time out I did perhaps 9 drops to 80 (77 actually). My typical dive lasts less than 1.5 minutes at that depth. That doesnt give me much time at the bottom. My surface intervals were in the range of 3.5 minutes. Id like to extend my dive times at 80 to 2 minutes. I think it would be great to hunt at 100. I doubt Id ever do it all day in light of the comments by Mullins and Fattah. I do have a bit of a natural apnea ability I think tho so maybe some day Ill be able to do four or five drops to 100 over the course of a day. Right now Im looking for a pool.

Sounds like you're on your way to reaching your goal. Good luck.

Just curious though. Where you live and dive, is there a specific fish you're targeting that lives at 100 feet? Why this arbitrary number?

 

[anthropisces]

I live in Palm Beach County Florida. I hunt from St. Lucie County to Key West with rare forays beyond that. I see many more large fish at 80 than I do at 60. I can only assume it is due to a lack of pressure. The deep fish arent accustomed to a freediver and are curious. I think it would be even more true at 100. The rare spearo or two who can do it locally shoot lots of very large game.

 

[growingupninja]

I live in Palm Beach County Florida. I hunt from St. Lucie County to Key West with rare forays beyond that. I see many more large fish at 80 than I do at 60. I can only assume it is due to a lack of pressure. The deep fish arent accustomed to a freediver and are curious. I think it would be even more true at 100. The rare spearo or two who can do it locally shoot lots of very large game.

The last time I was able to fish off a boat was in Destin last summer. I went out with my parents and some of their friends who were doing deep sea hook and line fishing; I was tagging along as the only spearo. It was the toughest few days of diving I've ever done to date; 80 to 100 foot bottoms and dives to match. We were several miles offshore fishing for snapper, and several times I saw schools of snapper with some guys up to 3' in them. The school would be curious and nearly always swim right up to me, at least until I fired the first shot.

 

[hank49]

The school would be curious and nearly always swim right up to me, at least until I fired the first shot.

Not to derail the thread, but that's the way the dog snappers are here. The key is to not get aggressive and let them come to me. Even if I shoot one, as long as I didn't make a move towards them or stared hard at them, I can get close again.

But when they run, they go deep and it WOULD be nice to be able to get to 90-100 feet and lay on the bottom. My son can do 90. I'm good to 60 and laying on the bottom and I get about the same amount of fish as he does.

 

[anthropisces]

That is called aspetto

 

[Andrew the fish]

....My typical dive lasts less than 1.5 minutes at that depth. That doesnt give me much time at the bottom. My surface intervals were in the range of 3.5 minutes. Id like to extend my dive times at 80 to 2 minutes...

I remember I quickly built times from just over a minute to 2 minutes of bottom time. No apnea training, mostly finning efficiency, streamlining and relaxation. Relaxing is easier to say, not very natural thing and requires work. Not to educate you, but just a reminder how important things often overlooked.

I also remember from russian professional diving handbook something about planning each dive carefully, as lack of having presice idea of what you intent to do is a major waste of oxygen. It comes from very different perspective of hard-hat divers of the past, but somehow I feel it is just as important for a freediver.

What I am trying to say is that things outside of just pure apnea training can contribute to bottom times.

 

[Spearo_the_Hero]

Greetings....i could suggest you come visit me in the philippines and train. 30M right of the reef just steps from my front door...is what I was doing daily my first year of freediving. Also great aspetto spearfish training with all the nice reef/rock formations and little caves you can do. You just need the time to dedicate to dive,...this has worked for me. For only 100ft (30M) frenzel is ideal. But 5-6 hours of 30M diving is some serious SHYYYTE...very taxing on the system, in my opinion. I would be surprised if you didn't feel effect of slight DCS after diving a few hours and doing over 20 dives over 30m. That being said, i'm sure the body could adapt to this goal of yours and if you have the time---I got the place.

 

[growingupninja]

Been a while but this was a cool thread and very useful to me as a California spearo who was getting tired of taking an ass kicking on every trip to deep, tropical water. So, here is my update:

I just got back from Florida where I had the opportunity to do 3 days of diving over a 4 day period. These were my best dives to date. 85' to 95' drops, between 15 to 25 per day, usually in a current of 1 to 3 knots. Sometimes the bottom was a little deeper but my floatline is 100', so 95' is the absolute practical limit with that rigging, and things were usually getting a bit murky to be fun at that depth. Dive times were conservative, roughly 2 mins each dive, with maybe 40 to 60 secs of travel with the remainder spent either in freefall or chilling on the bottom. Could definitely have pushed bottom times and depths further but not without more active safety protocols and different rigging.

To prepare, I had been doing some fairly aggressive pool training and dynamic dry pedaling for the last few months, and not much spearing because of injury and work chores. Because I don't always have a pool buddy and am sometimes just finning at a long course adult lap swim, I rarely had the opportunity to do 100's and mostly did interval 50's, although a couple times when I had active spotting I calibrated off a 100M swim, and 75's I could bang out repeatedly without much difficulty. Chest flexibility and EQ has never been much of an issue for me but I also did some full exhale+reverse pack swims in the pool, and typically ended up doing some FRC when circumstances conspired to let me get in some spearing in California kelp.

In the pool, doing repeated sprint 50's that built up large amounts of lactic acid seemed to be one of the better things I could do given training limitations. After some time spent investigating my own dive response, I've realized that on the deep warm water dives, I am working very much anaerobically on the way up since spending a little time at that depth seems to trigger some pretty solid vasoconstriction, and lactic acid build-up throughout the day was my limiting factor rather than hypoxia from any one dive. I am frequently getting solid vasoconstriction here in California from water temp, but since our fish are found in relatively shallow water--and my 5mm cold water suit has steep compression gradient which means I can start freefalling right past 10M and basically float at anything above 8M--the distance traveled is a fraction of what it was in Florida. Swimming 50's in a pool at a 'comfortable' speed, I am rarely hypoxic or crossing any kind of lactic threshhold. Same for most of my spearing and lobstering in California. So, lesson for deepish warm water dives: Do apnea pool sprints.

Barefoot running (those goofy five toed shoes), might have been helpful in strengthening my ankles to handle the demands of finning; right ankle sometimes gives me trouble but held up nicely on this trip. Because of an elbow injury, I did very little other conditioning in the last few months besides kickboard work, long fin pool swims, and dry dynamic pedaling. And just a bit of stretching.

On this trip I felt no hint of any DCS/tarvana, which was a relief as in the past I was worried that I had experienced symptoms in the form of confusion, mild vertigo, and unusual anxiety. I imagine past symptoms were related to exhaustion and the accompanying huge amounts of cortisol from the (over)exertion.

Grateful thanks to everyone who so generously shared their experience and information...

 

[anthropisces]

I remember I quickly built times from just over a minute to 2 minutes of bottom time. No apnea training, mostly finning efficiency, streamlining and relaxation. Relaxing is easier to say, not very natural thing and requires work. Not to educate you, but just a reminder how important things often overlooked.

I also remember from russian professional diving handbook something about planning each dive carefully, as lack of having presice idea of what you intent to do is a major waste of oxygen. It comes from very different perspective of hard-hat divers of the past, but somehow I feel it is just as important for a freediver.

What I am trying to say is that things outside of just pure apnea training can contribute to bottom times.

It has been a whole year since you posted this Andrew, but I have followed your advice. This included reading Umberto's book, which helped me a great deal with finning. Being relaxed and efficient is making a difference in how deep I can dive comfortably.