Police State USA

[jtkwest]

whenever the zombie apocalypse DOES happen, atleast we americans have our assault rifles and handguns. what are you europeans planning on doing to fend off the zombies ,(or your neighbors) when they come looking to take your food etc.? most of the countries in europe have very few guns in the hands of the people. Thank god for the rednecks and the NRA in the U.S.!!
they can take my rifle when they pry it from my cold dead hands!!
you scandinavians better start sharpening some sticks or something!
in reality , you dont need a hideout or stockpiled food, just a few assault rifles and a few thousand rounds- the rest will come easy!

 

[ReefTroll]

I do believe this year it was a Scandinavian losing the record for largest gun rampage...

 

[jtkwest]

I do believe this year it was a Scandinavian losing the record for largest gun rampage...

thats what happens when someone gets a gun in a country where no one has them,= when someone starts shooting , no one can stop them till they run out of bullets.
do the regular police carry guns there?
if they had to wait for a swat team instead of being able to shoot the guy them selves,(the first responding cops) there would most definately have been less dead bodies.

when guns are outlawed= only outlaws will have guns.

if the guy had tried that in the U.S., the outcome would have been quite different, i suspect.

the guy was listening to that scandinavian death metal, and it made him crazy!!

 

[sjurba]

We do not have many assault rifles in private hands apart from the civilian volunteers,but we are a nation of hunters, and I would guess that in rural areaes most homes have a shotgun and/or a rifle.We have a verry low statistics when it gets to "mad men" with guns going rampant,I do believe the U.S.A tops that statistics?
As for the "loonie" with the bombs and guns this summer, he was defenetly NOT a metalhead.He is a rightwing fanatical christian ,and a member of the freemasons.From a well off family,not your typical terrorist profile...As for the police,no our police do not carry guns,they have them in the car,our swat teams are armed like any other swat team.When they aprehended this disturbed person he put down his guns without a fight,he thought he was going to be cheered as a hero for killing racetraitors...

 

[ReefTroll]

I know a few Americans with guns who will admit that you're not a wonderful self sacrificing country that stops all your massacres etc etc. tell me one time an American gunman has been stopped by a civilian. We are not going to take your guns off you for an honest answer

 

[Bill McIntyre]

I know a few Americans with guns who will admit that you're not a wonderful self sacrificing country that stops all your massacres etc etc.

I'm one of those un-American subversives who thinks we have far too easy access to guns. But unfortunately, guns have been raised to the status of religion in this country, and trying to have a sensible discussion about guns is about at likely as having a sensible discussion about religion.

tell me one time an American gunman has been stopped by a civilian. We are not going to take your guns off you for an honest answer

I'm sure there are cases in which it has happened, but the possibility is over rated. If a gunman opens fire in a crowd, I think I'm more likely to be killed in the crossfire if everyone is armed and tries to figure out whom to shoot.

When Congresswoman GABRIELLE GIFFORDS was shot, a bystander had a gun and drew it, but he came very close to shooting her aide who was trying to save her.

 

[Bill McIntyre]

I never got past my tangerines, but I think this may be the bill that the OP was referring too. Here is Senator Al Franken explaining why he voted against it.

FOCUS: Why I Voted Against the Homeland Battlefield Bill

 

[Kars]

tell me one time an American gunman has been stopped by a civilian. We are not going to take your guns off you for an honest answer
I'm sure there are cases in which it has happened, but the possibility is over rated. If a gunman opens fire in a crowd, I think I'm more likely to be killed in the crossfire if everyone is armed and tries to figure out whom to shoot.

When Congresswoman GABRIELLE GIFFORDS was shot, a bystander had a gun and drew it, but he came very close to shooting her aide who was trying to save her.

Well having a level mind is necessary.
Don't draw until you know who's the aggressor could be a solution.

I think controlling a lethal device (car-motorbike-plane-gun) requires responsibility.
Unfortunately that is NOT being taught by school these days.

Maybe you can catch both flies with one swoop if you develop a responsibility and emotional stability test?
On the other hand any limiting act is like a foot in the door for abusive extension.
In the Soviet Union the smallest criminal offences were used to forbid anything.

It's like forbidding all guns because Dick Chainy shot a fellow hunter.


Now let's look a bit further, because apparently people are feeling less secure these days. What are the causes to that?

 

[Bill McIntyre]

Well having a level mind is necessary.
Don't draw until you know who's the aggressor could be a solution.

Maybe it could, but its not realistic. If half the people in a crowd are armed and someone fires first, they are not likely to be cool enough to pick out the right target when they look around and see so many others with guns drawn.

Now let's look a bit further, because apparently people are feeling less secure these days. What are the causes to that?

That is a very good question. Just last week I read a report that violent crime and homicide rates in the United States had been dropping steadily and last year were below the rates of the 1960s, but everyone seems to think its going in the other direction. We are afraid of our own shadows.

I don't know about the Netherlands and other countries, but when we visit our daughter in Dusseldorf, we often make the short drive over to a great amusement park in the Netherlands, and I don't feel that I'm at risk (unless I take some of the more daring rides that my grandsons seem to like).

 

[jtkwest]

i think you all may be missing the point. when someone attempts to start shooting a place up, and gets arrested or subdued BEFORE being able shoot a bunch of people- we would never hear about it. it only makes news when they actually succeed.
they are probably thousands of cases where someone (if left alone to do as they want) attempted something like this and got taken out by citizens.
we wouldnt hear about it because it may be slightly interesting - but not nearly as big as a story where people GET killed.


also, guns are already out there. the cat is out of the bag- we cant uninvent them no matter what you might wish.
when you try to control people by taking away their guns with a law what ends up happening is: the legal, law abiding people(the ones who DONT do crimes) turn in their guns and the criminals- (imagine this) dont.
ill say it again, when guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns.
get it? the bad guys will still have them . the good guys wont. either way
better settle in to the present system because we americans will not be handing our guns over to anyone ever.

 

[Kars]

Bill, you're right, in a stressful situation people act cool and logically.
People knowing themselves should invest some more time in training, or maybe switch to less lethal weapons. Gun advocates say that to be safe in a society where criminals have guns, only about 5-10% percent of the armed civilians are enough to guard against the criminals. So if you feel not able to handle to gun responsibility it's ok not to have one. Maybe you feel confident enough to have a "Taser", pepperspray or just carry some emergency medials supplies an equally great way to help!

Still I agree that fundamentally people have the right to defend your life and property, and the tools to do so. If you're not allowed the tools the recognition of the human right is a farce. (As here in the Royal kingdom of the Netherlands).

Causation.
Well I think the media is the 4th branch of power, and like you pointed out this branch can give a very unrealistic view of... everything.
Fear is great for selling. Selling anything, from diaper s to isms, from education to a police-state.
Apart from fear there are of cause other factors.
Economy is a big one. When people have got nothing to loose and are hungry morality and saving reputation is challenged. With an imploding economy and people becoming desperate, frustration is build as the contrast of the have's and not have's grows.
Why would you support an organisation when it does not give only oppression in return?