Pump

[John M Orcsi]

Playing the find salvimar parts game again. Anyone know any other brand pump that works with darkside/predathor. Broke mine. Thanks

 

[Diving Gecko]

All the other italian brands use the Mares style, I think. Perhaps consider changing the pump inlet valve to a Mares style one instead - many more of those pumps around. I did just that the other day and it worked. I used a Seac one - which might even be made by Salvimar in the first place, not sure. (Supposedly, Salvimar used to make tons of OEM parts for other manufacturers).

But how did the pump break? If you cross threaded the thread, it should be possible to just shorten the tube and rethread it - and shorten the rod inside correspondingly.


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[John M Orcsi]

All the other italian brands use the Mares style, I think. Perhaps consider changing the pump inlet valve to a Mares style one instead - many more of those pumps around. I did just that the other day and it worked. I used a Seac one - which might even be made by Salvimar in the first place, not sure. (Supposedly, Salvimar used to make tons of OEM parts for other manufacturers).

But how did the pump break? If you cross threaded the thread, it should be possible to just shorten the tube and rethread it - and shorten the rod inside correspondingly.


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The threads bent and stripped. I was pumping like a mad man in anger. Somehow my trigger wasnt springing back. Took gun apart found little pin that sits inside spring and pushes trigger down was bent somehow. Forgive me i dont know part names. I made a new pin and put new oring on it. While it was apart i figured i'd oil it and service. Put gun together and was leaking from muzzle. Apart, back together. Leaked, repeat. Prob did 3 times and pumped 1000 times lol. Then i fixed leak somehow but broke pump at 400 pumps.

 

[Diving Gecko]

Shoot:-(. I've nearly broken two pumps myself. On one of them the seal disintegrated. It was for a big gun and pumping non stop in the tropics killed the seal. Now, I lubricate the seals and take breaks every 100-200 strokes to let it cool down.

Sounds like the trigger pin itself got bent? Does it make sense that it was about 18mm long and 2mm diameter? It can happen if you pull the barrel out (or push it in) of the handle with the pin still inserted. The safe way to do it is to pop out the transverse pin in the handle which holds the plastic trigger and then pull out the 2mm trigger pin with a pair of needle nose pliers.


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[Diving Gecko]

Come to think about it, the Sporasub One Air has a non-Mares style pump, too if I recall correctly. I can't verify it as my gun and pump is in storage with a friend in Thailand. Omer uses the same handle and, I guess, pump in their Air X gun or whatever they call it. I suspect it will be overpriced like most things Omer and I'm not even sure it's compatible with the Salvimar in the first place.

If you can't repair your pump, then I'd say a Mares valve and pump is the most future proof solution.
If you are going down that path let me know before you put in an order. As I mentioned, I did swap my valve for a Seac one but I can do a leak test for you with a standard Mares branded valve.


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[Nico66]

If you can't repair your pump, then I'd say a Mares valve and pump is the most future proof solution.
If you are going down that path let me know before you put in an order. As I mentioned, I did swap my valve for a Seac one but I can do a leak test for with a standard Mares branded valve.


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+1
it works perfectly!

 

[John M Orcsi]

Thanks guys. Yes i didnt know to take pin out. I had gun apart several times and popped handle back in. Must be what happened. By chance i had a bunch of small stainless floatline clips laying around wich were exact diameter as the pin. It works fine now. I will find a mares valve and pump. Much easier to get a hold of.

 

[John M Orcsi]

Although i am seeing alot more seac stuff available closer.

 

[vrokhlenko]

Playing the find salvimar parts game again. Anyone know any other brand pump that works with darkside/predathor. Broke mine. Thanks

Try to identify the thread. Mares uses metric thread on its pump M14x1. Mares pumps are pure garbage - I had to make my own. The factory pump has the end piece (with o-ring) pressed into the aluminum body. The end piece does not have a thread - it is a bunch of concentric grooves. That press-in connection is the weakest point of the pump. Mine are made in such a way that the pumps body screws into the gun. So be extra careful with the factory pumps. Actually my first pump served me a few years (purchased in 1996). The newer ones broke almost immediately

 

[Diving Gecko]

Seac valve is fine and has the same exact same thread as Mares.
Seac pumps have a thread in the alu pump tube which may or may not be better than Mares press fitting. Just stay clear of Cressi pumps as they use an altogether different thread than Mares/Seac and the Salvimars.

 

[vrokhlenko]

Seac valve is fine and has the same exact same thread as Mares.
Seac pumps have a thread in the alu pump tube which may or may not be better than Mares press fitting. Just stay clear of Cressi pumps as they use an altogether different thread than Mares/Seac and the Salvimars.

Looks like the Seac pump is the same crap as mares

 

[Diving Gecko]

Looks like the Seac pump is the same crap as mares

Unless they changed it, it is different. Seac's thread is in the alu tube of the pump body and then has a small plastic insert to hold the o-ring. Mares thread and o-ring seat is all in one press fitting.

I have the Salvimar pump but never used it. But if it is a much better design, then perhaps the OP can still fix it. Need help from someone with a lathe, though.

 

[vrokhlenko]

Unless they changed it, it is different. Seac's thread is in the alu tube of the pump body and then has a small plastic insert to hold the o-ring. Mares thread and o-ring seat is all in one press fitting.

I have the Salvimar pump but never used it. But if it is a much better design, then perhaps the OP can still fix it. Need help from someone with a lathe, though.

Aha, cool! That is exactly how I made mine. One piece and a delrin insert at the end with two o-rings on each side. And I have a lathe

 

[John M Orcsi]

I dont get why ya cant rig up something simple like this?

 

[Diving Gecko]

Aha, cool! That is exactly how I made mine. One piece and a delrin insert at the end with two o-rings on each side. And I have a lathe

Yeah, I was thinking of a tricked out homemade pump myself. I think I already have a 6mm titanium rod but still looking for a proper tube;-)

I dont get why ya cant rig up something simple like this?View attachment 52017

Well, it's tricky. The issue is two-fold. First of all, you need very specific threading and geometry so it mates perfectly with the valve and this is not something you can get off the shelf with e.g gas or pneumatic fittings. Second off all, you need as little dead space in the pump "head" as possible. Otherwise, too much of the air will just compress at the end of a pump stroke and stay in the pump instead of going into the gun.


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[John M Orcsi]

I get the threading part. But not understanding rest. A speargun pump is a tiny little pump and it pushes air into gun. Why wouldnt a bicycle hand pump or compressor push air in easier. I wouldnt think the fittings needed to be anything special rateing wise because they are just screwing into the guns inlet valve wich is takeing the pressure. I dont know enough about air guns. I just dont see why.

 

[Diving Gecko]

As for the geometry what I meant is that there is a flange on the pump that needs to mate with the o-ring in the valve - that's for the Salvi design. It's the other way around for the rest as in an o-ring on the pump mating with the bore in the valve. It's not rocket science and could could likely hack one with some parts from other industries. But finding something with an M14x1 thread is not easy in the first place. I tried, and I gave up. Only when I got my lathe did I have a go at making pump fittings myself.

You bring up another point. That of why other pumps don't work. Thing is, an airgun holds way more pressure than a car or bike tire. You are putting +20 bar in many of these guns which is 2-4 times more than regular compressors can even put out.
There's is actually the same pressure inside the pump at the end of each stroke as there is in gun (actually, a bit higher in the gun at that point to open the spring-loaded valve in the gun).
The force acting on a pump piston (or a gun's piston for that matter) is a function of the pressure and the surface area of the piston. Bike pumps have larger diameters than airgin pumps which means they can move more air per stroke but if you use them on a gun you will reach a point where you can't physical move the piston any longer as the pressure in the gun has increased and the force needed to move the bigger piston in the pump is more than you can manage. Think of pumping a bike tire from flat to fully inflated. It's easy in the beginning and harder at then end. Now, imagine it being so hard at the end that you can't even push the pump. That's what happens.
Don't know if I did an OK job at explaining it.
Same issue with regular air compressors and the small, electrical car tire pumps. They are optimized to move more air volume at lesser pressures. They can get you to maybe 10bar and that's about it. If you want an electrical pump that can do high pressures on the cheap, then the way to go is with a fridge compressor.

 

[Nico66]

U can also try with this kind of High pressure pump (a french spearo i know, couldnt find a fridge compressor so he bought this):

Amazon product

U just have to find the right thread adaptator...

 

[Diving Gecko]

As for pump adapters, Salvimar sells them for 8-15 euros for both Cressi, Salvi and Mares valves. On the other end, they have 1/4 female thread. Can't recall if it's straight or tapered though. I've used one of these for my ScubaFill adapter until I got my lathe and made my own.


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[John M Orcsi]

Hmmm

As for pump adapters, Salvimar sells them for 8-15 euros for both Cressi, Salvi and Mares valves. On the other end, they have 1/4 female thread. Can't recall if it's straight or tapered though. I've used one of these for my ScubaFill adapter until I got my lathe and made my own.


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For the pump nicco posted?