Question Pushing Through Diaphragm Contractions

[7BDiver]

Reading through a SERE article for breath hold training I came across something that makes me feel I missed the boat somewhere. I am left with two questions:

Should I be pushing through the convulsions in order to reach a longer breath hold in which they will eventually subside or is peak of convulsions the limit before BO?

Do I just do breathing tables, relaxation, aerobic and anaerobic exercises resulting in contractions to be lessened or postponed due to better CO2 tolerance/more efficient use of O2?

1. Convulsions. When you first get an urge to take a breath and you don’t, you will have convulsions in your diaphragm. You can learn to fight through this, and if you do then you will gain a couple of minutes before you need to breathe.
2. Spleen Release. If you fight through the convulsions your spleen responds by releasing oxygen-rich blood. Your body will calm down and you will get a surge of energy. Use this energy to get somewhere that you can breathe!
3. Blackout. If you do not find fresh oxygen you will black out, and if you are underwater at the time you will drown.

Breath Hold Training – Learn to Swim 50+ Meters Underwater: Part 1

With this instruction being part of survival training, I'm not entirely sure if this is a make it or break it scenario or something to do for repetitive training.

 

[hteas]

Not sure what the SERE article is, but contractions are a normal part of breathhold diving. Personally, once they start, they don't stop, You just ridse them for as long as you can. Time seems to be the critical factor in extra blood being released from the spleen, so repetitive breathholds allow it to happen. Experience will answer most of your questions.
Do not try 50m without a dive buddy WATCHING you. Doing it solo could be the last thing you do.
Mostly, just keep diving, even in a pool, as this is how you learn how your body works. But, please do it with someone directly watching you.

 

[Bill McIntyre]

I’ve never had one In almost 70 years of diving. It would scare the shit out of mr if I had one. I’m just offering that information to counter the idea that you have to have contractions. Maybe I’m just too cautious but I personally knew a few guys who are dead. Maybe they thought they knew how many contractions to count.

 

[cdavis]

"Mostly, just keep diving, even in a pool, as this is how you learn how your body works. But, please do it with someone directly watching you."

Good advice!

Contractions are hugely individual and can even vary a lot for the same diver, depending on number of dives, lung inflation, and lots more. Some divers don't' get'em, some do, some strong, some not so strong. Keep diving to figure out your pattern. Personally, I get a lot of them and early. I dive half lung and typically go through a long period of low intensity, gradually increasing intensty contractions before its time to come up.

Two things: (1)for many divers, when contractions subside and a long breath hold gets real COMFORTABLE, watch out. For me, it means I'm getting hypoxic and B0 is uncomfortably close. (2)Some divers who get minimal or no contractions AND minimal urge to breathe are at much higher risk of B0. I dive with several like that and they BO all too easily. I suspect they just have extremely high tolerance for C02.

Hey Bill, with no contractions, do you get a strong urge to breathe? I remember you are doing relatively short dives, but do you get a strong urge if you go longer?

 

[Bill McIntyre]

Yes, I do get a strong urge to breathe. But maybe I've never had contractions because I'm so conservative. I really don't belong in this conversation since I'm not a pure freedive at all. I just freedive as much as necessary to spear fish. I try to stay out of the freediving forums but in this case I succumbed to the temptation to say that it might not be possible to state rules about contractions that are universal. Now I'll shut up.

 

[cdavis]

Yes, I do get a strong urge to breathe. But maybe I've never had contractions because I'm so conservative. I really don't belong in this conversation since I'm not a pure freedive at all. I just freedive as much as necessary to spear fish. I try to stay out of the freediving forums but in this case I succumbed to the temptation to say that it might not be possible to state rules about contractions that are universal. Now I'll shut up.

Sounds like a freediver to me.

The strong urge coupled with no contractions is interesting. In my limited experience, the two things don't go together. I thought C02 tolerance was linked to both contractions and urge to breathe, but looks like they can be independent. I suspect you would not get contractions, even if you stayed down much longer.

 

[7BDiver]

Thank you for your personal insight to the subject, which is what I am looking for. Reading many resources, some have blanket statements for what the responses are and some don't. I definitely get contractions, at about 2' they start to get uncomfortable. For a beginner it is pretty easy to be on the safe side in experimenting, as UP would suggest, once you loose mental control of your precise technique you are at the sensible limit. Once I get a lot more comfortable with the physiological responses I will need to know the signals of getting hypoxic. I think those that don't get or are not limited by contractions have significant insight into that. It sounds like hypoxic signals are very subtle and could easily go unnoticed. Waiting for eye sight to loose perception of some colors doesn't sound like a great signal to look for . I will have to see if pushing through contractions will lead to a period of relief then a new wave of contractions during supervised dry or dynamic practice. For Hypoxic information I'm sure there are many threads on the subject.

 

[J Campbell]

I only get very mild contractions at the end of a long static - and they are not what makes me stop. I stop because of the strong URGE TO BREATHE. I don't notice them at all during dynamics or deep dives.
For me a dive starts out comfortable, then about one third through I can feel the first inkling of discomfort. I can ignore that for another third even as the urge builds. The last third the urge builds to be so strong that it overwhelms my focus and my lungs are sreaming BREATHE!

 

[Asaf freediver]

Reading through a SERE article for breath hold training I came across something that makes me feel I missed the boat somewhere.

Can you share the article, please?

 

[Bill McIntyre]

I'm curious what SERE means in this context. When I was a Marine pilot I has to go through SERE school before I went to Vietnam, but it meant Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape and was about what I was supposed to do after I was shot down. I suspect that isn't what it means here.

 

[7BDiver]

Correct, I was referencing a Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape article. It does also cover an interesting swimming technique combining a breast-stroke and dolphin kick which is fun to try in a shallow pool since it helps staying underwater.

https://www.survivalfitnessplan.com/breath-hold-training/
https://www.survivalfitnessplan.com/50m-underwater-swim-technique/

 

[Bill McIntyre]

Interesting but i don’t see what relevance that has to SERE. If I got shot down I wasnt likely to need to hold my breath a long time or swim underwater for a long way. i seriously doubt that those skills in military SERE courses. I spent two weeks escaping and evading over the Sierras from 8000 feet to 10,000 feet and lost 15 pounds but I never held my breath or swam underwater.

 

[reelh2oman]

a lot of the time it depends are you looking out or looking in.... when you are spearfishing you don't concentrate on your diaphram and how much your solar plexus is thumping.... you are concentrating on the fish... if you are jumping into the sport to be a competetive freediver you need to realize there is no magic formula or system that will keep you from blacking out... banish from your mind the thought, "It will never happen to me.." because it will... the most important thing is spend time in the water... swimming, freediving, scuba, surfing, spearfishing.... even try buying a gopro and swimming out with the surfers if you live in Cali and shoot some video...dive under waves... all this will give you what the Italians call "aquacicita"... waterness...the more you practice and live in the water the better you will get at it...and that is where the loop comes in.... look at Molchanovs mommy...world champion and dead..