Quality / costs? Euroguns

Pav · Mar 1, 2006

Had decided on adding a 75cm Commanche to my gun rack (rack = 1 x 90cm Commanche at the moment!). Reason for shorter gun is poor viz / tight shallow gullies on the reef.

I've been happy with the commanche, with the exception of very occasional problems loading the shaft if the gun has been left (it is rinsed) but the mech frees up with a bit of pressure and use.

Anyway can't help but notice some of the cheaper euroguns available (Commanche = £80 ish). I never mind the extra ££s as long as your getting what you pay for. Accuracy and a gun shaft that I can turn quickly is what I need. Before I part with my ££s any other short euroguns worth considering under £100.

thanks!!

spaghetti · Mar 1, 2006

Many expert spearso advice to use always the same model in different sizes (75, 90, 100 etc.) so that your hand is always familiar to the handle, trigger and weight: you change the size in different conditions of visibility, but it's always the same gun.
Good advice, but i never followed it: I love to buy different new toys every time (childish, I know...), so i've had about 20 different gun models. If you decide to change, Omer Excalibur is a good choice. It's very similar to Comanche (I have both) as a concept, but Excalibur has the most sensitive trigger mech in the range of cheap guns (70-90 euro). It is also available with carbon barrel for about 110 euro. Up to you.

Mr. X · Mar 1, 2006

Hi there Pav,
I have been having similar thoughts myself. I have a 90cm railgun (should have probably got an 80cm -- the 90cm was ace in Cornwall htough except in the gullies). My current leaning is towards a Rob Allen Sparid 70cm (about £80+) or a Rob Allen Scorpia 65cm or 75cm (under £70). I have mostly RA gear and I find it suits me very well. [Did you see that accuracy test Mark posted?]

I toyed with the idea of getting something even smaller like one of those really short (35cm-55cm) euroguns with a trident for flatties, caves, gullies & poor viz. Although it seems like UK forum members do not use them.

My current thinking (it changes every day though!) is that 75cm/80cm would be the perfect all rounder for the UK but, if you already have an 90cm gun, maybe 60-70cm might be a better for a second gun. I plan to get some more experience to see where that leads my thinking. (Currently leaning towards 70cm RA Sparid).

Another justification for a second gun occurs to me. Spares (rubbers, wishbones, spears, spear line, tying line, wishbone tool,...) are quite costly & could be inconvenient on a trip. Whereas a second gun is a cost effective and convenient complete set of spares & will also deal with the case of a lost gun (heaven forbid) - especially if they are of similar type.

Would like to try an Omer Excalibur or something more exotic like one of the wooden master series, a Seatec Gabbiano Elite, a Riffe, a C4 & a Rabitech. However, it's rare to see a shop here carrying a single speargun let alone a range! Will probably stick with RA.

[Just saw Spagetti's post -- looks like Omer Excalibur might be the "hot ticket item". I am not into Carbon -- but 110 euro sounds like a good deal if you are.]

foxfish · Mar 1, 2006

Completely different weapon but you wont get much more maneuverable than a Maorisub Mamba 90 very powerful as well!

Old Man Dave · Mar 1, 2006

Have you considered a Maori Mamba 90 as a second gun?
Air guns have come a million miles in the last few years.
An air 90 is 90cm overall as opposed to a band 90 which is 90cm barrel length.
Air 90 is equivalent to a 70 band gun but with power and range to match a single band 120. A lot of this is due to the Maorisub dry barrel system.
Check out some of the details and especially the many vid's on http://www.maorisub.it/
Welcome to the dark side. :martial
Dave

Ah! Martyn, great minds think alike (you posted while I was writing this)

Mr. X · Mar 2, 2006

Where do shop for something like that?

Pneumatic is a bit hi-tech for my tastes -- but I know somebody who is keen on it. For a main gun, that kind of power/range would probably be great but I am thinking I would use a short gun in confined spaces (gulleys) and low viz, where too much power might be a liability (rebound/ricochet/bent spear/...).

I watched the loading video -- loading looked quite physical, on a par with a band gun. I thought easier loading was normally an advantage of pneumatics.

[BTW re. Mark's accuracy test article, mentioned above, the Rob Allen (120cm I think - probably a powerful 20mm band) was spot on -- but the tester was unable to load it again!]

foxfish · Mar 2, 2006

Spearo UK sells the Mamba range. Power is adjustable on these guns. I am sure my brother will post a more detailed reply. To be honest I have not fired mine yet.

Amphibious · Mar 2, 2006

for more info on the mamba talk to the boys at www.medfish.com

spaghetti · Mar 2, 2006

Mamba is a good idea, but I think we should warn Pav that it's not exactly in the cheapest range (or at least not within my idea of cheap): a 90cm stands at 230 euro + shipping :-(

Pav · Mar 2, 2006

I'd already clocked the price. My love of spearfishing partly stems from being able to collect my own food for free. Usually I forget the wetsuit, divebelt, knife, speargun etc rofl but it may be difficult to forget 230 euros , well at least the wife wouldn't let me forget it :naughty

Thanks for the replies! I have been reading them. At least a few others to consider even if I do opt for the trusty Commanche again! Whatever I go for I like to know that parts are quickly available from the UK if needed.

I'm keen this year to be ready as soon as the Viz clears enough and start getting in after work during the evenings.

Thanks all!
Pav

Old Man Dave · Mar 2, 2006

Where in the UK you at Pav?:wave
You south coast - just across the pond?
There's a Dorset crowd on line and a few easterly Brighton boys, plus of course us CI guys.
"Guernsey" Dave

Mr. X · Mar 2, 2006

Sounds good! That "free fish" can work out quite costly.

Pav said:
Whatever I go for I like to know that parts are quickly available from the UK if needed.

My comment re. spare parts was aimed at spearguns in general -- they are all made abroad. The SA railguns tend to use bulk-rubber muzzles which is often touted as an advantage, however, in the UK, bulk rubber is not widely available nor is it cheap (however it is readily available & much cheaper in the USA, where it is made, and, unusually, in Oz).

Pav said:
I'm keen this year to be ready as soon as the Viz clears enough and start getting in after work during the evenings.
...

'know the feeling! Lucky you!

Pav · Mar 2, 2006

Dave, I'm North Devon based. I'll have to edit my profile and add that stuff! Do most of my hunting on this coast, but do travel down to Cornwall to see my parents nr. Penzance. CLEAR water!
Pav

portinfer · Mar 2, 2006

230 euros is about £160 ... bass are about £3.50 / £3.75 lb (ish ??) so lets say £15 for a 4 lb bass... eleven 'average' bass and you are away.

I am notoriously bad at maths so maybe these calcs are off I think you can always justify new kit ...

Ed

Old Man Dave · Mar 2, 2006

Yeah! cost is relative. Ed I know had over 50 bass last year plus a few flatfish. That's at least £500/£600 if you sold it and creeping nearer £1000 if you had to buy it. That's a frightening statistic!

Not suggesting you turn pro hunter or anything but any half decent spearo who puts his mind to it can catch the annual cost of his gear. That's even if you buy new guns.

Personally I gave away several £100's worth of fish but I still tick it off mentally against any expenses. However best not to involve the little woman. Maths are not their speciality unless it's spending money on shoes! :chatup

Think you can get a mamba for nearer £130 if you try.

Spent a year in Exeter long ago but had a mate lived in Barnstable and visited a few times. Didn't dive there though it looked kinda fishy.

Good Huntin'
Dave

Mr. X · Mar 2, 2006

I am convinced!rofl So, really, it is more of an investment than a recreational purchase.

Wanny · Mar 3, 2006

I also plan to get a new gun this year. Think its good to carry a spare, don't want to go through the experience again of my line snapping whilst I am out and having to swim back in. Fortunately that time I was on my way in and the tide had already turned, if it hadn't I would have either had to sit on a rock and wait or get out 2 miles down the coast!

but do you think the more expensive guns really give any benefits over the cheaper models? maybe more accuracy, power and lighter? I have always been happy with mine but then its the only one I have used and I do miss more than I hit - now I would pay good money to stop that!

Mr. X · Mar 3, 2006

Depends what you mean by expensive.

I believe the cheaper guns from the major makers (e.g. Omer, Rob Allen, Imersion) are usually just as accurate as more expensive models. They often use some cheaper parts though, such as one or more of:
-cheaper construction techniques for the handles
- simpler/cheaper wishbones (e.g. not articulated)
- smaller diameter spears
- smaller diameter rubbers
- unrailed barrel
- single-rubber muzzle
- no floatline clip
- no muzzle bungie
- no muzzle scarab clip
- polymer vs. stainless steel line release.
Not sure about trigger mechs(?) -- perhaps different materials are used there sometimes? (This would be the area I would be most concerned about -- there have been a lot of spearguns on ebay with broken trigger mechs.).

I have heard they are often as good as the more expensive models from a use perspective. For an occasional user, perhaps a good deal.

portinfer · Mar 3, 2006

A mate uses a cressi comanche 90cm which he has had for years and regularly catches many more fish than me - often catching fish when I blank...

I think that the gun has nothing to do with it at a certain level.

He has been spearing for 15 years and simply has better technique than my 'one proper season'.

He owns a C4 100cm gun too but rarely uses it.

I think there is alot going for only owning one gun - but human nature being what it is ....

Buy the best you can afford I would recommend - but if you can only afford one gun then so be it - you will learn to use it and adapt it to different uses. I used a 100cm gun exclusively last year - I found that there were occasions when I was in the shallow weed with it right back and pulling the trigger with my thumb (funny angle but it worked). This year I have a Mamba90 and am just off to try and finish the Teak 80 I have been making.

It boils down to aesthetics and whether you have spare cash.

All guns will kill fish. Some you just enjoy using more than others and suit you better.

I like wooden guns - that's a long discussion - and I will give the Mamba 90 a bit more of a go but suspect that it may not be used that much when the Teak 80 is made and the Mahoghany double 107 is complete too

Ed

Old Man Dave · Mar 3, 2006

Guns are personal but must match your fishing style and conditions.

I use a Beuchat 90 cm Pro. Its got an eliptical ali barrel and a metal handle with fully adjustable trigger. It's 14 years old and has caught many hundreds of fish.

Like a lot of people I have customised it to suit my needs. It has a 6mm spear from a 110cm gun and mono stringing.

Recently I have changed it again to suit changing needs and it now boasts 20mm diameter megabooster bands and a small reel.

Like Ed and Foxfish I joined the dark side and bought a Mamba 90. First 2006Mamba blood to Mart http://forums.deeperblue.net/585063-post168.html

My Mamba has a coat of camo but has only a few notches on the barrel as it was an end of last years season purchase.

Even in the same location for similar fish technique still varies. My average range for a bass shot last year was probably 18 inches because I'm an indian specialist by nature. By contrast the local aspetto's probably have an average nearer 5/6 ft.

Chief Sitting Bull(shit) Dave.

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