RA trigger mechanism strength

[GoblinShark]

Hey guys, I recently talked to Jeremey from dive factory about the RA trigger mech strength and I asked him if the trigger could handle two 16 mm Riffe bands of the same length as the original RA bands and he said that it would and I could also shorten them a little from the original length if I could load'em. Now the Riffe bands are rated as 120 lb. so two of these bands would make it 240 lb. is my logic right on this? I know that is still nothing compared to the Riffe trigger mechs but it ain't that bad for the type of gun that it is.
Here is what he had to say about the mechs on their guns:

We had only 2 that we know of that broke, both where very over powered with 2 x 20mm shortened rubbers. We are currently working on our own handle which will be available in +- 6 months. This one will be much stronger but also does not need the strong rubbers some are trying. In the States and Oz guys are used to using thick spears which need strong rubbers, our spears are much lighter and therefore don't need the extra strong rubber power.

 

[Murat]

Originally posted by GoblinShark
Hey guys, I recently talked to Jeremey from dive factory about the RA trigger mech strength and I asked him if the trigger could handle two 16 mm Riffe bands of the same length as the original RA bands and he said that it would and I could also shorten them a little from the original length if I could load'em. Now the Riffe bands are rated as 120 lb. so two of these bands would make it 240 lb. is my logic right on this? I know that is still nothing compared to the Riffe trigger mechs but it ain't that bad for the type of gun that it is.
Here is what he had to say about the mechs on their guns:

We had only 2 that we know of that broke, both where very over powered with 2 x 20mm shortened rubbers. We are currently working on our own handle which will be available in +- 6 months. This one will be much stronger but also does not need the strong rubbers some are trying. In the States and Oz guys are used to using thick spears which need strong rubbers, our spears are much lighter and therefore don't need the extra strong rubber power.

Good news for IYA ! ! ! Now he doesn`t need to buy Wong mech and able keep the gun`s sprit original.Hehehe

Himmmm what i am talking about:duh This damn monitor giving me headache

 

[Iyadiver]

GS,

The logic behind the trigger is simple. At least use 60 % of the maximum rating. Let the 40% be for wear and tear plus some experiment.

If RA sells double muzzle that they stated can take 20mm x 2, they must be prepared that someone will shorten the 20mm bands. It is no excuse that it should ever failed because maximum rubber strecth anyone can ever try is probably at 400%. At 400% a good 20mm bands will produce between 135-170 pounds each. If say at 340 pounds RA trigger break, using a shortened 16mm Riffe bands, you are looking at perhaps 270 lbs. All you need is another 70 pounds to break a trigger.....that is too close.

However if they are coming out with their own trigger unit, they them admit that the current one is risky when loaded high. It doesn't matter where the guns are sold or how buyers load them with rubbers. If the muzzle claim to be able to take 2 x 20mm, that will be the rubber people will try to mess with. If they sell thick shafts, those will be the shafts people will experiment with.

I think the succes of RA is what make people wants to convert it to blue water use and thus RA must soon introduce the stronger trigger or else shits might happen. The more the guns are in the hands of hunters, the more experiment people will perform. The key is to make at least a 500 lbs rated trigger so that people will damage the muzzle or barrel first, then they stop experimenting and happy with that limitation or when the recoil start to spoil the accuracy big time.

However it will be best to follow guys like Alexander, Riffe and Kitto where they built guns the other way round. First have a superb trigger for Blue Water Gun, when that works, make smaller guns and use the same trigger...............problem solved.

I am happy that RA will have the new stronger trigger cause that is when I will buy them. I want to spend money for fun & pleasure ..........not to misfire and kill a friend or get sued till my pocket run dry.

One thing to remember RA sells the gun at a very decent price, don't expect to get super duper trigger quality if the retail price is low. Research, tooling and development need money, I am sure they are good for the money you paid for them. So I think they are still one of the better value guns around, just don't overload them.

 

[Abriapnea]

3rd time lucky

I doubt if many people are aware of this , but the proposed new trigger will be the third that RA is trying . The problems with the current one you all know about ; I personally don't think there have been as many cases of failure as some responses here have speculated , however I do think there have been more than two worldwide ...
The original grip had the unfortunate habit of snapping off between the handle and the top where the spear is housed .
One spearo got his face rearranged and teeth removed when his grip disassembled itself while he was aiming at a fish , and mine snapped just after loading leaving me with a truly impressive bruise on my chest .
I think it's a good thing that they are building their own trigger to suit the gun .

 

[icarus pacific]

Glad to hear that research and design is ongoing- the mark of the true spearo afficianado :blackeye One of the reasons I'm most glad is for the poor bastard that happens to be in the general direction of the shaft once that trigger let's loose. I had the smooth luck to have a shaft go by me from a rotted out Swimmaster trigger that my buddy had been loading while I was waiting for him to get his kit and sh*t together- not one of my better memories...

I've had the aluminum barrels of these guns go to rot as well when the juncture of the muzzle and the barrel decides to say, "See ya!", and the muzzle comes back over and plants itself in your kisser. The regulator in my pie hole saved me from a tri[p to the surgeon.

One of the big deals I taught in design school was to expect that there would be a fringe element that would start to tinker with the product and so overbuild to the extent of the budget. And then retain a good lawyer.


sven

 

[eshowe_boy]

Trigger Mechanism

Hi Sven,
New member here. I am Ex South African living in So Cal. I used to live near Aliwal and learnt to dive in some great water with great divers- I was never great (moved to JHB before I leant anything). It’s been nearly ten years since I dived, but I recently had my old equipment shipped out. I also bought a 2 man sea kayak for Christmas – Yehaa.

My friend and top class spero Mark Addison had my first gun made for me by RA I believe ???- It was prior to the rail becoming so popular. Anyway - my question is I want to buy a trigger mechanism for a new gun I am building. The reason I am building instead of buying is I have access to great hardwood (brother is in the Hardwood flooring game) and a great workshop - besides I love tinkering.

Any thoughts on what to invest in. This is not going to be a big bluewater gun because it is going to be primarily used in and around the kelp in SoCal, Coronado Islands and Catalina, but I would rather invest in a sound trigger that can take the load of 4 bands if I ever modify it again. I was considering
a) Steve Alexander - Extra heavy-duty all stainless steel parts with 5/32" monel flush rivets and 3/16" mounting pins--75.00, OR
b) Millineum model made by Kitto and Klefstad

Any thoughts or guidance appreciated.

ANOTHER homesick South African
(Eshowe-boy)

 

[fuzz]

If you want durability & functionality, you really can't go wrong with an Alexander trigger

 

[icarus pacific]

Hi eshowe.

As far as trigger's go, the Alexander is just about the most balls-out mechanism you're going to find. The only problem and maybe it's just a problem for me, is that it doesn't have a safety unless you're willing to do some engineering, metalwork and some carving. The line release, pin and line anchor is seperate but is also first rate. This trigger mechanism will take as much pull as you'll care to stretch and certainly more than you'll need.

The Riffe trigger is a real close tie with it and the nice thing there is that you can order a complete kit including the butt pad, line release, anchor plate and a bunch of other bells and whistles all in one shot. You can rig a safety for these too... always a nice thing.

Bill Kitto's Millenium mechanism is a real piece of work, though I've not personally installed one, I've shot them and they get smoothness points as well.

The Wong is a carbon copy of the Alexander as far as the workings, and is held in a plastic housing which sounds funky but I've not had one break on me. Maybe in April... The idea of plastic sides didn't thrill me for the eventual flexing, so I machine the pocket they install in real tight and they seem to be fine. My last two homemade titanium pipe guns used Wongs and they install nice and clean.

Bill and Jay's gear is readily available down there in So Cal, so you're golden! Good luck, take your time and measure a bunch before you take shallow passes with the cutterhead.


sven

 

[Abriapnea]

Hi Eshowe boy , and welcome .
Mark and myself worked together in Sodwana for around three years and spent a season spearing commercially around uMkomaas . As you mentioned , an excellent spearo .
If you speared in Sordies during the nineties we might have met .
Happy hunting over there .

 

[eshowe_boy]

Hi Sven, Thanks for the advice.

I am going to a local San Diego buddy "Kevin Scully" who has built a lot of blue water guns for further training in the art of spear gun assembly. (Nice Wahoo pic that Kevin got in Mexico last year attached - huge!!) The Alexander and Kitto appear to be the same price so I have convinced my brother to build a gun as well. We will try both triggers and report back on how our DIY project goes.

I have more questions on different hardwoods but I suppose it is best to start a new thread.

Howzit Abriapnea,
I knew Mark from school days and squash before he opened African Water Sports, now Blue Wilderness Diving. I was and still am a newbie but he allowed me to tag along with him on a few spearing trip. I was boat-boy a lot of the time but sh_t did I learn!! I moved to JHB before I became any good. Did you know Fred Andrews? SWB got him just before nationals in 92 or 93 I believe. He was also a stellar spearo and a great guy. Did you know big Mark "Moose" Campbell from Umkamaas? Man I am going back a few years to the “party days” – my memory is clouded!!

 

[Abriapnea]

Nice 'hoo , eshowe .
Fred was a great mate . Together with Mark we spent long hours in the water .
Good to have you on board .

 

[ivan]

Hi Abri

This guy might be way older than you but did you know Tommy Botha I think thats how its spelt. In Terry Maas book there is a terrifying story of one of his mates blacking out on the bottom at 30m while his other mate dived down to get him. He blacked out to at -10 So this Tommy guy had to swim both of them to the surface. Only one of the blackout victims made it.

cheers

 

[Abriapnea]

Ivan ,
I was one of the spearo's on the boat . In fact it was I who noticed that Nick had not returned from his dive . We were hunting on a wreck in around 30 m. water . Tommy marked him ; Jules went down to fetch him ; blacked out on his return and Tommy and myself with another spearo brought them out .
I tried CPR during the 6 km. boatride back , as well as the 10 km . by car to the hospital .
It was too late however . I ended up with two broken front teeth from mouth- to -mouth on the speeding boat .

On a better note ; Tommy Botha is IMHO one of the best spearo's ever . Watching him spearing a fish at around 20 m. , then pulling it onto the spearline , reloading and potting another before surfacing is one of the most awesome things I have seen .

 

[eshowe_boy]

I met Tommy once +/- 10 years ago while he was diving in Natal getting ready for nationals. There are a lot of stories about Tommy – we could write a book.

One story / rumor was that he and Mark Addison saved a 7 foot Raggie that had a thick hard plastic hoop jammed into is gill plates. It had been that way for a few weeks and was going downhill fast so the guys dived to 25 – 30 meters armed only with a knife, stalked the shark a cut the plastic off before the shark knew what had happened. I am told there were a few bubble blowers that though they had seen a miracle of sorts. It must be noted that Raggies are VERY docile at Aliwal but I would not want to have to wrestle any shark at that depth.

Do you know anything about this episode Abri?

 

[eshowe_boy]

Tommy has won the SA nationals 11 out of a possible 20 times over the last 25 years - they missed 5 years due to bad weather.

Talk about dominating the sport - quite amazing.

 

[Abriapnea]

Hi eshowe ; no haven't heard that one , but can easily believe it .
Those same sand tigers should be in Sodwana now , I am taking my camera along to try and photograph them . Used to do that every year with my old Nikonos ...As long as you don't use a flash and are freediving they will swim right over you if you lie still in a gully . They pass over you so close that you can stroke their bellies after taking a pic .

 

[ivan]

hi

Wow abri you were on the boat man you are everywhere. This guy sounds amazing spearing at 20m and reloading on one breath. How deep could this guy go as a max depth.

cheers

 

[Abriapnea]

Hi Andrew ,
Not surehow active Tommy still is , but I know when we speared together he would do comfortable 40 m. dives . In fact I know a couple of uys back home in that category .
Our fish seem to feel safe beyond 30 m. , if you can get deeper they are often quite easy to apprach .

 

[icarus pacific]

must be all the feeding, eh?


sven

 

[Abriapnea]

Yup , you have just uncovered our shameful secret ...
When we do these 40 m. dives we hold a sardine in our left hand , go sit on the bottom and waggle it around . Sooner or later some stupid fish (like the ones you have in NoCal) comes towards you ...