Rabitech Spearguns

[peskydor]

bucket, thanks. A bait ball? I'll have to remember that one.
Pesky

 

[peskydor]

I would be the first to admit that there are potential problems with the sliptip. It's easy to 'slip' up in the design and manufacture. Prodanovich did not like the sliptip because of the stuff hanging off it and he claimed drag, perhaps rightly so. His stempoint design was to avoid assymmetry of that kind. However, in practice, I haven't seen much effect on the arrow. There must be such effects but when visually comparing fixed head and sliptip arrows and how well they hit the target, the differences are hard to detect. The wobble argument is heard from time to time and it could be valid, if the sliptip is bored off center or if it is too loose on the arrow. There are two types of bore, the straight bore and the tapered bore (Riffe). When in flight, the pressure impinging on the sliptip causes setback, and self rights the head on the tapered cone. How this could wobble escapes me. You see, there are two sides to most stories. The headline is that sliptips vary in design as do performance. The straight bore is another matter. Again, the flukes on the tip exert a straightening force.. However, it is encumbent on the maker to achieve a good fit without slop. The sliptip has a larger cross sectional area than a plain shaft. Allen is correct about that. However, some of the drag on the shaft is not caused by water resistance pushing against the pointy end. Even a 3/8 sliptip is very streamlined. Much of the drag on the arrow is caused by cavitation (at the butt of the arrow). So, the drag effect of a sliptip is less than expected. It's explained more comprehensively in my "Biller 54" thread.
Pesky

 

[Spearooo]

rabbi

What Rolo said. I say the 120 is a good all around length for the reef with the 110 being a close quartes type gun but it will still be wicked and will kill alot of fish. Bucket whats this I hear? a 130 rail gun ? whats next a pink speedo?
Pesky: bucket has taken some freaking Enourmous fish with a one banded Hornet with a single flopper (if im not mistaken) so all this talk of tide phases and who developed what when might be a bit off Greeks original topic!!!
Nothing quite as sweet as whacking a fish right in the spine...once you get a rail gun dialed in its a thing of beauty.

 

[peskydor]

Hey, bucket, you've been a good sport. One more question: where is the shooting line attached to the arrow? What type of line is it?

I'm convinced that you are the real deal. so this is a serious question.

The claims made for the Allen gun defy any explanation. However, a wild thought has occurred. Allen says that the line, a stiff mono, is attached to the butt end of the shaft. There is a hypothesis that I decided to throw out for laughs or whatever, but it might suggest an answer. The performance of an arrow probably follows the same principles attributed to ships and subs. I think that it is called 'aspect ratio'. and effective hull length. Anyway, it has something to do with the length, cross section and general shape of the object in motion. What if a shaft with line attached to the butt took on the mathematical appearance of a very long, skinny object? It is possible that the cavitation which occurs inside the channel formed by the wake streams could be disrupted. I'm a little fuzzy on the physics and need to read up on this but cancelling of the suction at the butt of the arrow could allow it to travel farther and faster. Wait a minute, I think he said that the line was connected 'behind the wishbone notches'. I don't see how it could be connected to the butt end. Back to the drawing board, or the ouija board.

Try this recipe: knock of the head and scoop out the mackeral's guts. Get hold of a Weber grill (covered grill). Fire it up. When the charcoal is ready place the whole fish on the grill. Put on the cover and wait 10 minutes. Turn the fish over and allow another 10 minutes. When the fish is done, peel back the skin and fork off the flesh and serve.

 

[guide1]

peskydor have you used a RA or rabitech?there very nice fast guns i was skeptical at first but these guns are VERY nicealso if you wanted to you could drill a hole above the notches and attach it there

 

[guide1]

its very similar to that but the monos atached 3mm back from the end with a crimp then it runs along the shaft

 

[Rafael Palmerio]

Nothing like having skin over meat!

 

[peskydor]

Bucket, good advice. My personal best on Spanish is 10 in 2 hours. I came out of the water just ahead of a bull shark and I wan't even using a bait ball. Your description of the hunt was spot on.

 

[Hamrrhed]

Wouldn’t it be better to run the mono through the hole behind the last notch in the shaft and just crimp it? The way you have it now looks as though you would be loosing the toggle effect with the end of the shaft.
This is of course being if you managed to string the fish.

Just my opinion

Anthony

For those of you who don’t use RA shafts, the shat comes pre-drilled in this location.

 

[Hamrrhed]

To Peskydor,

Its not so much that the rubber is different on a RA, its more the shortened length that makes it hard to load. Its rather tricky your first go around.

Short thick band, long , sometimes very long barrel + short arms. Ouch.

Anthony

 

[GreekDiver]

Originally posted by Rafael Palmerio
Nothing like having skin over meat!

You hit a nice long ball!

 

[peskydor]

you would be loosing the toggle effect with the end of the shaft.

Please read the long dissertation from Allen (Miles). Allen doesn't want a 'toggle effect'. He feels it is better to pull the shaft back through. That is reasonable because a strung fish is a mess on the way to happen. Shame on you. What if Allen gives a pop quiz.?
Pesky

 

[Spearooo]

Pesky if im not mistaken the bait ball Bucket was speaking about is the live kind that undulates and parts.. A bait fish aggregation, not a wad of chum.... Its true about the strung fish, they are much easier to lead when the are on steel instead of line, this is very helpfull with larger pelagics

 

[Hamrrhed]

Maybe I am missing the point, what good is a slip tip then.
A slip tip is really no different, the fish is still strung.


Anthony

 

[peskydor]

Hmmrhd, it is different to the extent that a strung fish will twirl and ball up your rigging among other things. A fish hung on a sliptip acts much like one held by a fixed point except he has nothing to fight against. Basically, runs and bucks a bit.

 

[peskydor]

The vertical eye theory

This was a most remarkable assertion, at least to me. I don't know of anyone who sights 'over the barrel'. In order to do this one would be forced to shoulder the gun and sight over the muzzle much as with a rifle. Since the divers arms are normally set far from the centerline of the body the usual method of aiming is down the barrel and down the side, simultaneouly, with both eyes open. Thus, difficulties in aiming the Allen gun must be otherwise explained. I liked better the other comment heard previously. Translated, it read, 'get used to it'.

Many divers have problems at first because the railgun is so different. When you are accustomed to aiming and using equipment that performs a certain way then change will feel strange and may take a while to get used to. Before getting further in this subject, let us try to visualize two geometric concepts, most important for a better understanding. 1) Horizontal plane: lean down at the head of a long table until your eyes level with the tabletop. Now everything you see on the tabletop, or along it, is in the same horizontal plane of your eyes. 2) Vertical plane: lean one ear against a long wall. Everything you see along or up and down the wall surface, like a picture, is in the same vertical plane of your eyes. That understood, be aware that the main problem area seems to be in the way some divers aim. Most look over the top of their guns while aiming, bringing the gun up onto the target. This tends to make it accurate in the horizontal plane because of the way you are looking over the gun, but not so in the vertical plane. We have found the best way to aim a railgun or any gun for that matter, is to not aim over the top, but rather along the side of the gun. What this does is it helps you to keep it very accurate in the vertical plane, which is much more important than the horizontal because most fish are much longer than they are wide. This is especially true with open water game fish that are difficult to get close to. When looking along the side of the gun, the rubbers, barrel and spear are all in the same [horizontal] plane as your eyes. All you have to do now is lift or lower the whole gun until it is on the same plane with the fish's spine. When this is in line, then the gun is moved from side to side to control the horizontal plane while keeping it in line with the spine vertically. In this way the shot will be on target with the spine but maybe a little out regarding the lateral placement. This lateral, hence horizontal, inaccuracy is not as important considering the spine is as long as the fish is.Answer Courtesy of Rob Allen Spearguns.

 

[peskydor]

Spearoo, I went on a fixed point kick a few years back. All was going well untill an amberjack tore a gigantic hole and fell off the spear. I don't like sliptips because they take time to separate from the other rigging, and delay loading by a few seconds. Just something else to think about. However, they result in fewer lost fish depending on what is being hunted. I consider them mandatory for White Sea Bass but that will always be controversial as with most personal preferences.

 

[guide1]

Re: The vertical eye theory

Originally posted by peskydor
This was a most remarkable assertion, at least to me. I don't know of anyone who sights 'over the barrel'. In order to do this one would be forced to shoulder the gun and sight over the muzzle much as with a rifle. Since the divers arms are normally set far from the centerline of the body the usual method of aiming is down the barrel and down the side, simultaneouly, with both eyes open. Thus, difficulties in aiming the Allen gun must be otherwise explained. I liked better the other comment heard previously. Translated, it read, 'get used to it'.

how do you aim a speargun then? what i do is fully outstretch my arm then raise it so its inline with my right eye shutting the other and i get excellent results pekydor you gotta try one of these guns only then will you understand it fully

 

[GreekDiver]

If your guns shoots consistantly the same way, it really doesnt matter how you aim. Once you shoot your gun long enough, you realize how high or low it shoots.

When i shoot my Mares Cyrano 700, i just aim a tiny bit below what i want to hit, and the spear goes exactly what i want to hit. Im sure each gun is different and shooting it will only tell.