Riffe or Rob Allen?

[trumph]

I have been reading everything I can find on different guns, plus asking everyone that I know and seem to be left with deciding between these two band guns. Living on the New Jersey shore my main targets will be Fluke (summer flounder), Tataug (blackfish) and Striped Bass (stripers, not rockfish!). The striper fishing is the best in 30 years with numerous fish in the 20-30# class being taken daily with a chance of a 40-50 pounder at any time. Also looking at Fluke and Taug 10# and up. I'll be freediving fairly shallow in the open and also hunting along our rock jetties.
Looking for help in gun selection and length...had my eye on a Riffe 2S but then saw the Rob Allen's (100-120cm) which cost less and also get great reviews. Both guns look great but I can only get one for now. Any input would be appreciated....even if its recommending another gun, band or pnuematic.
Thanks,
Ed

 

[Trainwreck]

I'm sure I'll hear about this opinion but have you considered the Daryl Wong 50" Hybrid? I'm sure you'll like what you see.

 

[trumph]

I'm thinking that 50" might be too long and a Wong too pricey! I'm just a beginning hunter and think that maybe a shorter gun would be best. I probably won't have the viz for a 10' or longer shot so maybe something in the under 100cm/40" range but still packing enough striking power to stone a 40# striper should be my first gun? When the stipers are running like they are now, they will practically run up on the beach chasing bait fish. The Fluke will be buried in the sand and the Taug in the rocks so the shots will be close, fast and hopefully deep.

 

[Fondueset]

Contact Matt at www.spearfishinggear.com - he hails from that neck of the woods.

 

[GreekDiver]

I'm thinking that 50" might be too long and a Wong too pricey! I'm just a beginning hunter and think that maybe a shorter gun would be best. I probably won't have the viz for a 10' or longer shot so maybe something in the under 100cm/40" range but still packing enough striking power to stone a 40# striper should be my first gun? When the stipers are running like they are now, they will practically run up on the beach chasing bait fish. The Fluke will be buried in the sand and the Taug in the rocks so the shots will be close, fast and hopefully deep.

Mares Cyrano 850 should do you fine. You can buy JBL spears and put JBL tips on it. I hunt in virginia beach and i use a Cyrano 700 and 850. We arent allowed to spear stripped bass in virginia beach. I do shoot lots of Tautog, flounder, and sheepshead and an occasional cobia when it swims by.

 

[poacher]

I think you may find a 50" wong is about the same as a 100 rob Allen in Size as most American gun makers use overall gun lengths including mech and hip loading but whereas RA and most if not all Euro guns are measured from front of action to where rubbers attach at front of Barrell so a 50" wong is not really a long gun for clean water.

 

[trumph]

GreekDiver: Thanks for the semi-local input. I've been considering alot of air guns....Mares, Cressi, Picasso and Imersion(my fav). Virginia Beach conditions should be very comparable to the Jersey coast so the shorter gun will work here also. One difference is that stripers are legal to spear/catch in Jersey but not legal to sell...not even in the fish stores!
Pocher: the Wong guns look great....but again the price is more than I can justify. As a beginning, shallow water, free-diving hunter this year I just want a short range killing weapon. Maybe after I get a PADI cert I can look into other guns...'course I won't be able to afford them after paying for the course, BC, Regulators and such.
Plus I'm a single Dad who's been raising his two daughters by his lonesome for the last 4 years....tough justifying a $700+ toy to my kids, especially when I won't stop at one and they don't eat fish. See, my problem is that if I can't decide between a couple or three items...I have to buy them all !

 

[GreekDiver]

GreekDiver: Thanks for the semi-local input. I've been considering alot of air guns....Mares, Cressi, Picasso and Imersion(my fav). Virginia Beach conditions should be very comparable to the Jersey coast so the shorter gun will work here also. One difference is that stripers are legal to spear/catch in Jersey but not legal to sell...not even in the fish stores!

Ill take a picture of my setup when i get home and see if that helps you. How clean is the water over there? My shaft line is only 6-7 feet long. I don't shoot far because i cant see far :t I don't even pump my gun up to its full potential because it ends up going thru the whole fish.

For what I'm doing, pneumatics destroy the band guns. I load them quicker than band guns, has plenty of power, and easier to move thru the water. I'm sure NJ is full of fish like Virginia beach since the vis is so poor and very few people spearfish. All we really need is visibility and its a slaughter fest.

I'm going to Virginia beach on Monday for 3 weeks. I should get about 2000lbs of fish(tautog, sheepshead, flounder, a cobia or 2). My uncle has a restaurant there so i just give him all the fish Fish sandwich, Fish gumbo, Fried Fish, Broiled fish, Blackened fish, rofl

I ordered an ASSO 115cm with a mamba kit. It should get here in a couple weeks. I'm so excited!

Pneumatics 4 lyfe :inlove

 

[poacher]

Greek Diver,
I hope your joking about how many fish you want to kill,2000 lbs is too many fish for one guy to kill it will look bad for our sport Please limit your catch don't try to catch your limit.
Trumph I was not trying to sell you a wong, although I have heard they are a good gun. If your on a tight budget you should look at making your own Riffe style gun you can buy the trigger mech,shaft and rubbers from Riffe and maybe the Butt if you want the easy way to fit a butt then make nearly everything else your self you can use Beech or Tasmanian Oak to make the timber barrel or stock it doesn't need to be laminated to work if you can find good strait grain timber. This should cost about half the cost of a new Riffe and you will learn the skills and techniques as you go if your already handy with wood and metal. there is a good article on making guns on this site- however some of the tolerances supplied are much tighter than needed for a good pratical gun. I have made a couple of guns my self and they work quite well. Try looking at the home made guns section here for more ideas.
Peter

 

[GreekDiver]

Greek Diver,
I hope your joking about how many fish you want to kill,2000 lbs is too many fish for one guy to kill it will look bad for our sport Please limit your catch don't try to catch your limit.

Well first of all its not illegal. 2nd, I'm not gonna even put a slight dent in the population. Most of the fish will be sheepshead and there isn't a limit on them. There are very few sheepshead even caught yearly. Id say maybe a dozen. They rarely bite hook and line and most people don't even know what they are in the first place. The only way to really get them is to spear them. There are so many you cannot even fathom it. I'm not hurting them and I'm not doing anything illegal. For the last ten years, i haven't seen a drop or increase in population from these fish. There is just that many. :ko

Anyways, here is a the setup i have for my gun. I have a max range of 7 feet on my Cyrano 850. I could shoot farther but i never needed too. The vis is so bad that long shots don't even happen. Notice how thick my shaft line is. I like it thick like that because its easy to handle in the water and it never tangles. I just load and shoot.

 

[poacher]

I can see that gun looks very practical for dirty water, this is where pneumatics are in front power for length in your situation they may be quite good. The advantage of rubber guns is simplicity and ease of maintenance anyone can learn to tie and fit rubbers whereas leaky seals in a pneumatic is a very specialised job and parts not always available-although I am told good pneumatics are fairly reliable. I am not trying to upset you mate, just making the point that taking big numbers of fish can make some people envious -even when its legal and then they can try to cause problems for us spearos we have many illogical laws against spearfishing in Australia for reasons like this.
Some of the dogooders try to make it hard for us even when thereis no valid reason. I am only trying to prevnt you from suffering from this type of thing if your not doing anything Illegal then its ok but sometimes things can be or even just appear to be Immoral when they are not illegal.
Regards
Peter

 

[GreekDiver]

I know what you mean. When i go fishing or spearfishing, i never show what i catch. There are lots of jealous people. I try to conceal my catch every time. I don't go around opening up my cooler because i don't like people knowing my business. Thats what DB is for

I also have a hook n line commercial license to sell fish so its really hard sometimes to unload your catch without people seeing it.

Pneumatics are very easy to repair. All you do is let out the air, unscrew the top, replace oring, and refill with air. Making new bands also gets expensive. Orings cost pennies.

In my opinion, i have yet to see the advantages of band gun over a pneumatic gun. My experience is with smaller pneumatics. When i started out, all i used was band guns. Almost in every aspect, the smaller pneumatic has the edge on the smaller bandgun. Loading speed, very easy to move thru the water, power, and pennies to repair. Pneumatics do make lots of noise when they fire, but i haven't seen that hurt my production at all. I haven't shot a real long pneumatic(100cm and up) yet so i don't make assumptions on them. I do have an 115cm pneumatic on order and i cant wait to test it out.

Thats the beauty of the forums. Everyone can give their opinion and discuss it even being thousands of miles away.

 

[sickbugs]

maybe you dont understand what poacher is saying (wait.. a poacher telling others not to kill too many? )

spearfishing worldwide has a bad reputation because everyone sees it as an easy way to catch fish, so when your out there making claims of shooting a ton of fish (literally) this gives the opposition fuel for their fire, plus u mention giving them to a restaurant? i see problems there, especially if you have a commercial fishing license, who is going to believe that you are giving away a ton of fish, which will profit someone else, when you have gone through the trouble of getting a commercial fishing license?

spearfishing is a sport, and the only reason its still around is because we practice conservation, hunting for food for family and friends, you think that you may not be putting a dent in the population, but what if they were 100 spearos out there with your same attitude?

and if you havnt ever seen the benifit of a band gun vs a pneu, then you havnt been shooting long enough maybe? what do u do with a pneumatic when a o-ring fails in the middle of a dive? maybe a dive when you finally are seeing signs of a fish you have been targeting for months..we bandgun users can carry a spare band with us

 

[GreekDiver]

and if you havnt ever seen the benifit of a band gun vs a pneu, then you havnt been shooting long enough maybe? what do u do with a pneumatic when a o-ring fails in the middle of a dive? maybe a dive when you finally are seeing signs of a fish you have been targeting for months..we bandgun users can carry a spare band with us

I dunno maybe id grab my other pnuematic gun? I havent had any fail on me yet. Explain what the benifit of a band gun vs a pneumatic gun. It should be a good debate

I have a license to sell fish. I dont get whats wrong with that. I guess you just dont like commerical fishing. :t I only kill fish that are edible and usable. I dont kill fish for just a picture. Fishing 3 weeks out of a whole year will not do anything. I do give lots of fish out to friends and family. Anyways, im done talking about that. It seems like a very sensitive subject that i dont want to get into.

ciao

Greekdiver

 

[sickbugs]

funny how u could guess i dont like commercial fishing, from the age of 2, i was goin out on my fathers fishing boat, and every school holiday, and most weekends, since i was about 7 deepwater gillnetting (my least fave) deepwater trapping (my fave) longlining (we never killed any turtles, dolphins, birds, nothing, honest !!) and yea.. it has been a good experience, and allways good to be able to fall back on something like that, if needed, i wouldnt have a hard time getting a job

 

[trumph]

Well, anyway, to all of those not from the States...each of our states has its own fishing/spearing regulations which limits the total amount of each type of fish that can be landed each day per person. The commercial regulations are not the same...for instance: in New Jersey,recreational anglers/spearos are allowed to take 8 summer flounder (fluke) as long as they are 16 1/2" long and up....the commercial guys can still take 14" fish!! Pisses everyone off that likes to fish for sport. We end up thowing back 60%-70% of our catch because its too small but the same fish is on ice in the fish store the next day, sold by the commercial netters/draggers etc. End of my rant...

Now you know why I am getting into hunting my own catch. Ended up getting a Riffe Metal Tech #0S (32"-80cm) for my first gun. It was an E-bay buy, comes with 2 shafts: 5/16 x 32 and 9/16 x 34" along with 3-9/16" bands, never used. Hopefully it will fill my requirement for a low vis powerful gun.

 

[Fondueset]

I have an MT0 - currently rigged with a 1/4 shaft and a 3/4 inch band. It shoots nicely out to the end of two wraps. If your fish are big, or hard - the heavier shafts will suit you better. I like having just one band - though it is a bit of a monster to load. It's a pretty cool little gun and fits in my fin bag.

 

[Mr. X]

Sounds like you're sorted. I asked the RA guys why they made short versions of their big game guns (like 20mm & double band equipped Caranx & Tuna). Apparently they are popular in E. Europe for getting big fish in poor viz. Sounds like pneumatic or Riffe MT0 also fit the bill though.

 

[spaghetti]

I have an MT0 - currently rigged with a 1/4 shaft and a 3/4 inch band. It shoots nicely out to the end of two wraps. If your fish are big, or hard - the heavier shafts will suit you better. I like having just one band - though it is a bit of a monster to load. It's a pretty cool little gun and fits in my fin bag.

Three questions to the forum:
-Does anyone know a european source to buy american spearguns (riffe, wong, jbl, biller, any)?
-What could be a honest price for a MT0 like Fondueset's one? (But first, what length is it?). (and that's 3 questions...)

 

[Fondueset]

www.spearfishinggear.com

I think his prices are about right - They ship worldwide. Matt will rig it to your specs - or advise you on the best rigging. He has an Mt1 himself. His guns all come with enclosed tracks.

Overall length without a shaft is 32 inches on the 0 (80cm) 41inch or 104cm with the standard shaft length. You can put a couple 3/4 inch bands, 4 9/16 or 3 5/8 - though those kinds of loads are pretty intense. I think a couple 5/8 depending how power hungry you are.

I'm comfortable saying this gun is good out to 3 meters - Iyadiver has done much further and Riffe says 3.5.

For a eureopean dealer I'd probably enquire from Riffe www.speargun.com

It's worth mentioning these guns sink empty. The mid-handle design takes some major adjustment if you are used to a euro style. They are also extremely sturdy.