Salvimar predathor vuoto for beginner??

[Bobc]

Hi All
I have been interested in having a go at spearfishing for many years but never have found the time due to working away, young family and other hobbies
recently circumstances have curtailed my land based hunting hobbies and my interest in trying spearfishing has resurfaced.
I have had a go about ten years ago in the med whilst on holiday and used a cressi sl70 and found i quite liked it, it seemed manageable to load and good to swim with but then I never actually shot anything with it
Ive been reading about the pros and cons of various types and sizes and what im leaning towards is a pneumatic with a dry barrel kit and through posts on this fine forum I found details of the Salvimar predathor vuoto in 85cm and was hoping for opinions as to wether these guns are any good and also if it would suit my main intended area of use of north England /south Scotland from the shore.
Any advice and suggestions appreciated
Thanks for taking the time to read.
Regards
Bob

 

[Diving Gecko]

Hi Bob, welcome!

Well, since you are asking the already converted, I will, not surprisingly, say that it is a fine choice
That said, while I have a handful of pneumatics I only just recently bought a Predathor 85. It has not yet been in the water but it has been taken apart already.
As Gazz mentioned in the One Air thread recently, it seems well built. Plastic parts seem very strong and the line release looks good, too.

When Salvi launched their airguns a few years back, some said their spears were soft. I am not sure that is the case any longer. If you give me a few days I will do a "bend test" between the new Salvi spear that came with the 85 and one from Devoto and Sigalsub which is most often recommended.

Also, the line sliders used to be brittle and could snap. I will take a picture of the one that came with my gun and perhaps someone with an early Predathor can upload a pic of an older slider so we can see if they have indeed changed.
But no matter what, this is a tiny issue and easy to rectify by getting a better slider from either Tomba or elsewhere.

The 85 comes with a reel. It seems well built, but it is a tad heavy. Also, like with way too many other brands, the brake goes from fully loose to full lock in about a 1/4 of a turn. I like my reel to be set with just a bit of friction so it doesn't free spool but still holds the shooting line firm on the gun and puts a bit of pressure on the fish when shot. But very few manufacturers seem to agree with me on the need for this as most reels I have handled don't offer much fine tuning to help find that sweet spot. But again, not a huge issue at all. You may never use the reel and with the Predathor's price, one can almost say the reel comes for free. I know Gazz likes the reel, though

In regards to size, I think it is a fine length for your hunting grounds. You could possibly even go one down in size and still have adequate power but the 85 is already quite a bit smaller than a 90cm bandgun which I think is what is often used in the UK, right? I have a Seac 90 which is great in Denmark but some have 60-70cm airguns and they are happy, too. I think, in the case your viz clears up nicely sometimes the 90cm is the better gun and it is still not too long to maneuver.

One thing I don't yet know is how neutral the 85 will be in the water. Sadly, I am allergic to nose heavy guns and cut down all my spears to minimum length plus swap the reservoir (outer tank) for a carbon one (for bling plus weight savings). The Predathor should weigh about the same as a Sten, Cressi or Asso so either way, they are all probably equally good or bad in this matter. The 85 will have less of an issue than a 65. I have heard from Danish spearos that the latter can be a tad heavy.

I just wanted to list it all, but please don't be dissuaded. All in all, I still think the Predathor is the best bang for the buck. Otherwise I wouldn't just have bought one (though it is intended to be for a friend, I still wanted her to have something nice). Just remember to get some spare seals. Pack of 3 normally sells for about 9 euros.

 

[Bobc]

Hi Bob, welcome!

Well, since you are asking the already converted, I will, not surprisingly, say that it is a fine choice
That said, while I have a handful of pneumatics I only just recently bought a Predathor 85. It has not yet been in the water but it has been taken apart already.
As Gazz mentioned in the One Air thread recently, it seems well built. Plastic parts seem very strong and the line release looks good, too.

When Salvi launched their airguns a few years back, some said their spears were soft. I am not sure that is the case any longer. If you give me a few days I will do a "bend test" between the new Salvi spear that came with the 85 and one from Devoto and Sigalsub which is most often recommended.

Also, the line sliders used to be brittle and could snap. I will take a picture of the one that came with my gun and perhaps someone with an early Predathor can upload a pic of an older slider so we can see if they have indeed changed.
But no matter what, this is a tiny issue and easy to rectify by getting a better slider from either Tomba or elsewhere.

The 85 comes with a reel. It seems well built, but it is a tad heavy. Also, like with way too many other brands, the brake goes from fully loose to full lock in about a 1/4 of a turn. I like my reel to be set with just a bit of friction so it doesn't free spool but still holds the shooting line firm on the gun and puts a bit of pressure on the fish when shot. But very few manufacturers seem to agree with me on the need for this as most reels I have handled don't offer much fine tuning to help find that sweet spot. But again, not a huge issue at all. You may never use the reel and with the Predathor's price, one can almost say the reel comes for free. I know Gazz likes the reel, though

In regards to size, I think it is a fine length for your hunting grounds. You could possibly even go one down in size and still have adequate power but the 85 is already quite a bit smaller than a 90cm bandgun which I think is what is often used in the UK, right? I have a Seac 90 which is great in Denmark but some have 60-70cm airguns and they are happy, too. I think, in the case your viz clears up nicely sometimes the 90cm is the better gun and it is still not too long to maneuver.

One thing I don't yet know is how neutral the 85 will be in the water. Sadly, I am allergic to nose heavy guns and cut down all my spears to minimum length plus swap the reservoir (outer tank) for a carbon one (for bling plus weight savings). The Predathor should weigh about the same as a Sten, Cressi or Asso so either way, they are all probably equally good or bad in this matter. The 85 will have less of an issue than a 65. I have heard from Danish spearos that the latter can be a tad heavy.

I just wanted to list it all, but please don't be dissuaded. All in all, I still think the Predathor is the best bang for the buck. Otherwise I wouldn't just have bought one (though it is intended to be for a friend, I still wanted her to have something nice). Just remember to get some spare seals. Pack of 3 normally sells for about 9 euros.

Thanks very much for the welcome and of course for your reply and thoughts.
I would be interested in the results of the bend test on the spear and to know how the gun feels to you in the water.
Speaking to shops over here I've been told I'd be best with a 75cm by one shop, an 85 by another and a 90 by a third (all single 16mm band guns) so I am still pondering over length and open to advice
One thing I was wondering is how do the lengths compare with dry barrel pneumatics compared to bandguns? what I mean is does a 75cm dry barrel pneumatic equal a 75cm single band bandgun or is there kind of a multiplying factor either way?
I was puzzling over the 75 cm model or the 85cm but was favouring the 85 because it came with a reel whereas the 75 does not but then the 85 with reel appears to cost about £30 more so I dont know wether I would paying the extra for extra range I wouldnt need and also just be complicating things by having a reel being a complete beginner and all!
I suppose the 75 would be easier to pack for travelling if I did go abroad with it. I have a holiday booked in Crete next year so it would be nice to have a go over there if I could.
Thanks once again
All the best
Bob

 

[Gazz]

Hi Bob,

The Pneumatics are measured by the guns total length, where as the band guns are measured by the guns barrel length. The pneumatic normally has more power than a rubber gun (particular in the shorter models). Some people prefer the rubber guns as they are more simple and less prone to problems, but if you are a little handy you should be fine, the salvimars have a reputation for reliability.

I have never dived in England or waters like it, but i understand you normally hunt smaller fish in strong currents? if you are hunting in in currents, swell or wash you want a nose heavy gun not a light carbon gun. But in my opinion the salvimar isnt nose heavy if it is shooting a 7mm spear (it is with a 8mm spear). I would recomend finding a English spearfishing club and speaking to them about the best size and config.

Gecko has made good points abou the gun in his above post.

 

[Diving Gecko]

Not sure if they have that much current but I suspect a lot of very shallow diving and holding gun at the ready for hours. So, maybe a neutral gun is better;-).

I think bandguns are measured from the hole in the muzzle to the trigger mech (or to the last sharkfin?), kinda... What I do know is that a 90cm bandgun will shoot a 120-130cm spear. A Salvi 85cm will shoot a 97cm spear, which might even be shortened a bit later on. In that regard the total length of an 85 Salvi is more like that of a 50-60cm bandgun! But as Gazz says, your 85 will def outshoot most 90cm bandgun and still be way shorter

Here are some measurements of mine:
Gun Length: 924mm (muzzle to upper end of handle), 960mm (muzzle to end of handle),
Gun Length loaded: 1103mm (to upper end of handle)
Original spear: 970mm (790mm inside barrel)
Overhang: 180mm (stock spear)

 

[Bobc]

Thanks again Diving Gecko and Gazz for your thoughts and sorry that I have not replied sooner I have been very busy with my work ( work for myself so have to do the work while its there)
I was watching a predathor 85 on scubastore and all of a sudden the price dropped to £106 so I took the plunge and ordered one.
It looks good now its here and I think it will be okay but Ive not had a chance to use it yet.
Im now getting the rest of the kit together so when Spring comes I can have a go, good old santa claus is hopefully bringing me a wetsuit and other bits!
I've got to confess to being a bit nervous as to a first try out at sea though, it's been a long time since I swam inbthe sea and then that would have been on holiday in waters a lot warmer than there is around the uk.
Thanks again
All the best fir xmas and the new year

 

[Diving Gecko]

I have one of those exact guns here, too.
Haven't tried it at all but will in a few weeks in some nice warm water, hopefully.

The plastic parts feel denser than what I am used to, so it will be interesting to see how it balances in the water. I am sure it will be powerful and can take fish.

Not so sure about the reel, though. We will see.

 

[Bobc]

I have one of those exact guns here, too.
Haven't tried it at all but will in a few weeks in some nice warm water, hopefully.

The plastic parts feel denser than what I am used to, so it will be interesting to see how it balances in the water. I am sure it will be powerful and can take fish.

Not so sure about the reel, though. We will see.

I just filled my reel last night with some 2mm dyneema but i felt it was maybe designed for thinner stuff but it seemed to be built ok, the drag setting is quite coarse though
Regards
Bob

 

[Diving Gecko]

I am more worried about the lack of a guide leading the line in, but perhaps if run the reel line through a small shackle or ring at the muzzle that will lead the line towards the reel.

 

[Ethan 99]

Hello im looking to get into spearfishing and I wanted to get the salvimar predathor vuoto 75, but I cannont find anyone who sells it in america in that size. Is there anywhere els I could get it?

 

[Ethan 99]

And also is there any other pneumatic gun that is similar is size price and quality?

 

[popgun pete]

Hello im looking to get into spearfishing and I wanted to get the salvimar predathor vuoto 75, but I cannont find anyone who sells it in america in that size. Is there anywhere els I could get it?

Try Scubastore https://www.scubastore.com/scuba-diving/salvimar-predathor-vuoto-75/137076427/p

 

[Ethan 99]

The website the link takes me to says it can't sell most of salvimars products to the U.S. is there anywhere else I could get it?

 

[popgun pete]

The website the link takes me to says it can't sell most of salvimars products to the U.S. is there anywhere else I could get it?

Divestock have a 65 cm and don't seem to worry about restrictions https://www.divestock.com/salvimar-predathor-vuoto-pneumatic-gun
That is the only stock that they have at the moment.

 

[Ethan 99]

Do you know of a pneumatic gun that is better than the predathor vuoto? Amd do you think I would be getting the best quality gun for the money if I bought the predathor vuoto?

 

[popgun pete]

Do you know of a pneumatic gun that is better than the predathor vuoto? Amd do you think I would be getting the best quality gun for the money if I bought the predathor vuoto?

Inside most pneumatic guns are like peas in a pod, there is not much between them. Best to buy one where you can relatively easily buy extra spears, that is why Mares have done so well over the years as they are available world over. You need to think about what you hope to shoot and where and the type of gun that you will need. Eventually if you spear in a wide range of environments and with many prey options you will require more guns, most spearfishermen have two or three guns of different sizes and spares of each of those if required on a long trip.

 

[Diving Gecko]

Do you know of a pneumatic gun that is better than the predathor vuoto? Amd do you think I would be getting the best quality gun for the money if I bought the predathor vuoto?

I think you may be getting into overthinking territory - a place I know all too well.
I do like to be as informed as possible and actually often don't trust when people just say "but this, it's what you need!" but allow me to almost do it anyhow.

I stand by what I have said about the Vuoto for a few years - best value for the money (at least in Europe as I don't know what you would be paying from a US dealer).
Perhaps the Pelengas prices are competive - I don't know, but if we exclude them for now, I don't think you can find a better deal for an off the shelf vacuum muzzled gun than a Predathor Vuoto. But if you don't want/need a vacuum muzzle, you can get the regular Predathor. Or a Sten or anything else basically, as Pete says - they are all incredibly similar in parts, internals and performance.

In shorter sizes, Predathors can be a tad heavy in the water though.

Now, back to the overthinking territory... If you want to save money and don't mind servicing and upgrading a gun, you could start looking for 2nd hand guns in the US. Most of them will be really short, but you may find a cheap Mares or Scubapro that's not. If they are not too beat up, it doesn't matter if they are 30 years old, really. Get new o-rings, a new shaft and slap a Vuoto muzzle on it and you might have gotten yourself a nice deal and learned how the insides of these guns work and how to service them.

[EDIT] I did a quick search and I think US dealers are often over pricing these guns. In Europe, it's fairly easy finding a Predathor Vuoto in 85 for less than EUR 175. Heck, I just saw one on sale for USD 160. Three and a half years ago, I paid EUR 170 for mine from a real brick and mortar shop. But I feel like they tend to run closer to USD 300 in the US which is a bit absurd.

 

[popgun pete]

I think you may be getting into overthinking territory - a place I know all too well.
I do like to be as informed as possible and actually often don't trust when people just say "but this, it's what you need!" but allow me to almost do it anyhow.

I stand by what I have said about the Vuoto for a few years - best value for the money (at least in Europe as I don't know what you would be paying from a US dealer).
Perhaps the Pelengas prices are competive - I don't know, but if we exclude them for now, I don't think you can find a better deal for an off the shelf vacuum muzzled gun than a Predathor Vuoto. But if you don't want/need a vacuum muzzle, you can get the regular Predathor. Or a Sten or anything else basically, as Pete says - they are all incredibly similar in parts and also in performance.

In shorter sizes, Predathors can be a tad heavy in the water though.

Now, back to overthinking territory... If you want to save money and don't mind servicing and upgrading a gun, you could start looking for 2nd hand guns in the US. Most of them will be really short, but you may find a cheap Mares or Scubapro that's not. If they are not too beat up, it doesn't matter if they are 30 years old, really. Get new o-rings, a new shaft and slap a Vuoto muzzle on it and you might have gotten yourself a nice deal and learned how the insides of these guns work and how to service them.

Yes, second hand is definitely an option, quite a few of my guns were used items that had probably been bought by people who thought that it would be fun to go spearing, then had second thoughts once they copped a few waves in the face, got bowled over or had a bad experience and then sold the whole lot on eBay. Even the gun stickers were intact, including the shop stickers in some cases, as spearfishing is not for everyone, but the sellers had spent up big regardless.

 

[tassie_dan]

I think you may be getting into overthinking territory - a place I know all too well.
I do like to be as informed as possible and actually often don't trust when people just say "but this, it's what you need!" but allow me to almost do it anyhow.

I stand by what I have said about the Vuoto for a few years - best value for the money (at least in Europe as I don't know what you would be paying from a US dealer).
Perhaps the Pelengas prices are competive - I don't know, but if we exclude them for now, I don't think you can find a better deal for an off the shelf vacuum muzzled gun than a Predathor Vuoto. But if you don't want/need a vacuum muzzle, you can get the regular Predathor. Or a Sten or anything else basically, as Pete says - they are all incredibly similar in parts, internals and performance.

In shorter sizes, Predathors can be a tad heavy in the water though.

Now, back to the overthinking territory... If you want to save money and don't mind servicing and upgrading a gun, you could start looking for 2nd hand guns in the US. Most of them will be really short, but you may find a cheap Mares or Scubapro that's not. If they are not too beat up, it doesn't matter if they are 30 years old, really. Get new o-rings, a new shaft and slap a Vuoto muzzle on it and you might have gotten yourself a nice deal and learned how the insides of these guns work and how to service them.

[EDIT] I did a quick search and I think US dealers are often over pricing these guns. In Europe, it's fairly easy finding a Predathor Vuoto in 85 for less than EUR 175. Heck, I just saw one on sale for USD 160. Three and a half years ago, I paid EUR 170 for mine from a real brick and mortar shop. But I feel like they tend to run closer to USD 300 in the US which is a bit absurd.

Hi Gecko, thanks for the detailed thoughts.
a few questions if anyone is willing to share some thoughts:

~ does the vouto muzzle go on any gun that will fit it?

~ what do people find the effective range of the predathor with or without the vacuum muzzle?

~ anyone know how solid the shafts are? (the vouto model is 7mm, the plus is 8mm, i shoot around rocks a fair bit)
(and whether the 8mm shaft in the vacuum muzzle is neutral bouyant)

~ how useful is the power adjust?

i'm interested in a shorter length, thinking 55 or 65 but also interested in the power adjuster. so looking into the option of a predathor plus and installing a vouto nozzle. this would be a gun for having a spear on me while diving mostly for crays and abalone but want ability to get fish were i see them)

great to hear of people having pneumatic guns working for years!
thanks

 

[Fondueset]

Hi Gecko, thanks for the detailed thoughts.
a few questions if anyone is willing to share some thoughts:

~ does the vouto muzzle go on any gun that will fit it?

~ what do people find the effective range of the predathor with or without the vacuum muzzle?

~ anyone know how solid the shafts are? (the vouto model is 7mm, the plus is 8mm, i shoot around rocks a fair bit)
(and whether the 8mm shaft in the vacuum muzzle is neutral bouyant)

~ how useful is the power adjust?

i'm interested in a shorter length, thinking 55 or 65 but also interested in the power adjuster. so looking into the option of a predathor plus and installing a vouto nozzle. this would be a gun for having a spear on me while diving mostly for crays and abalone but want ability to get fish were i see them)

great to hear of people having pneumatic guns working for years!
thanks

I'll be reviewing the Salvimar Dark Side 55cm here on DB sometime in the next month or so. I have the gun now and have been testing it. I want to confirm a few observations but the article is well under way.