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Sambas every damn day

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
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Tzla

New Member
Feb 15, 2020
5
0
1
32
I am not new to freediving, but am new to training consistently. I’ve recently started having sambas around 31-33m and after 2:00. My PB static is an easy 5:15 so I don’t think this is a problem with my breath hold. I do find it hard to equalize head first, spending a lot of time getting down to 30m trying to equalize. I feel like I am relaxed the whole time tho. Sometimes I can do quick dives to 31m 1:45 and be totally fine, tho equalization is usually easy. Is this an equalization problem or a relaxation problem? I am a bit worried that I am having a samba or two almost every day I dive. Thanks!
 

Tzla

New Member
Feb 15, 2020
5
0
1
32
Please describe your samba symptoms.
Im fully conscious, with involuntary body tremors after or during my first two recovery breaths. The more severe ones i will throw my upper body around and my safety has to pin me to the buoy and take off my mask. Less severe can just be the sensation of numbness or even a euphoric body wave starting from my hands and feet and light tremors or a shake in my lower body or legs with ability to still hold on to the buoy myself. I am usually still consciously taking recovery breaths the whole time.
 

cdavis

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2003
4,050
794
218
71
Sounds like yours are real samba's. 2 minutes is getting up there for many divers, and you may simply be running short of 02. The fact that your static is longer really doesn't mean much. I'd try different ways to improve my dive reflex, which will increase the 02 supply to the brain. Diving half lung is very good for that, but limits you depth ability, quite a bit till you get used to it. Minimizing effort on the way down also helps DR.
 

Tzla

New Member
Feb 15, 2020
5
0
1
32
Sounds like yours are real samba's. 2 minutes is getting up there for many divers, and you may simply be running short of 02. The fact that your static is longer really doesn't mean much. I'd try different ways to improve my dive reflex, which will increase the 02 supply to the brain. Diving half lung is very good for that, but limits you depth ability, quite a bit till you get used to it. Minimizing effort on the way down also helps DR.
Thanks! Im assuming that I should discontinue going deeper until I am improving on my 02 supply. I do incorporate exhale dives into my training, but I will continue to focus on those as my equalization improves.

If anyone has any suggestions on a specific training regimine I would be interested!
 

kelp_king

Member
Feb 4, 2020
3
0
11
31
You are becoming hypoxic; to train that limiting factor you need to do hypoxia training. Static breath hold is not directly associated with a task-loaded breath hold (or your dive breath-hold). When you are doing a static you are not moving much, and using less oxygen. A better indicator of how long you can dive for without being hypoxic (of course this is general because it has to do with how much oxygen you are using) would be to go for distance/time in a pool. You put your body under stress and can understand how long your body can go before becoming hypoxic. Always train with a buddy, especially when doing hypoxic/hypercapnic workouts. Your inability to equalize quickly is also adding stress, work on your equalization and mental techniques for relaxation and that should also help.
 

Nathan Vinski

Well-Known Member
Apr 19, 2015
281
181
83
26
I am not new to freediving, but am new to training consistently. I’ve recently started having sambas around 31-33m and after 2:00. My PB static is an easy 5:15 so I don’t think this is a problem with my breath hold. I do find it hard to equalize head first, spending a lot of time getting down to 30m trying to equalize. I feel like I am relaxed the whole time tho. Sometimes I can do quick dives to 31m 1:45 and be totally fine, tho equalization is usually easy. Is this an equalization problem or a relaxation problem? I am a bit worried that I am having a samba or two almost every day I dive. Thanks!

The other advice on the thread is valid, however regardless of what exactly caused your sambas in the first place.. The most concerning thing to me is that you are having them 'every time' you dive, and 'sometimes having 2'.

For sure if you have 1 samba, your day of diving should be finished. Any instructor or buddy that allows you to continue diving after a samba is either; completely inexperienced, or simply doesn't care about your life. It's basically the same thing as having a TKO in boxing (not fully out, but concussed) and then taking more hard shots to the head. Chances are you'll more easily be concussed again, and the risk of long term brain damage is really high.

The reasoning behind this is that your brain releases stress chemicals after an samba or blackout. It can take up to 6 weeks for the levels to return back to normal. If you have another one within that time, you begin to accumulate stress chemicals in the brain further increasing your risk of having LMC or BO, and putting yourself a long-term risk of degenerative brain diseases.

Chances are, your instructor told you " there's no risk to BO if you're rescued".. This is BS, and all the current research shows that this is BS. if you want a starting pint.. listen to this podcast with;

Fred Lemaitre (freediving's leading physiologist) http://freedivecafe.com/2019/02/17/56-frederic-lemaitre/

Now, I don't mean to "call anyone out" but in this case I think it's really important.

You're profile location suggests you're diving in Utila. I trained there once upon a time, and what I saw blew my mind.

On one session alone, I witnessed an instructor at the school have a small lung squeeze, take 30:00 rest in the boat and repeat the same depth resulting in a massive squeeze (pink foamy blood everywhere). Someone else BO'd during their warm-up, and still attempted their target dive.. of course this resulted in a BO. Two other divers LMC'd and continued to dive. I assume this is a regular thing over there because no one but me (the only person not to have done my courses there) was phased by it.

This isn't normal though. I've trained with some of the best in the world and I live in Dahab, where there's a constant influx of freedivers from everywhere around the world, and this kinda thing doesn't happen. So what ever you're being told.. If (big if) you LMC/BO, 100% stop diving for the day. Also, you don't need to LMC to progress..

My final advice.. Take some time (2weeks) off.

Stop diving to 30m until your EQ and speed is solid on 20-25m dives

Make sure not to train every day.. The body needs rest.. 3-4 days of deep diving maximum per week especially with the Utila-style 2.5-3hr sessions
 

Tzla

New Member
Feb 15, 2020
5
0
1
32
The other advice on the thread is valid, however regardless of what exactly caused your sambas in the first place.. The most concerning thing to me is that you are having them 'every time' you dive, and 'sometimes having 2'.

For sure if you have 1 samba, your day of diving should be finished. Any instructor or buddy that allows you to continue diving after a samba is either; completely inexperienced, or simply doesn't care about your life. It's basically the same thing as having a TKO in boxing (not fully out, but concussed) and then taking more hard shots to the head. Chances are you'll more easily be concussed again, and the risk of long term brain damage is really high.

The reasoning behind this is that your brain releases stress chemicals after an samba or blackout. It can take up to 6 weeks for the levels to return back to normal. If you have another one within that time, you begin to accumulate stress chemicals in the brain further increasing your risk of having LMC or BO, and putting yourself a long-term risk of degenerative brain diseases.

Chances are, your instructor told you " there's no risk to BO if you're rescued".. This is BS, and all the current research shows that this is BS. if you want a starting pint.. listen to this podcast with;

Fred Lemaitre (freediving's leading physiologist) http://freedivecafe.com/2019/02/17/56-frederic-lemaitre/

Now, I don't mean to "call anyone out" but in this case I think it's really important.

You're profile location suggests you're diving in Utila. I trained there once upon a time, and what I saw blew my mind.

On one session alone, I witnessed an instructor at the school have a small lung squeeze, take 30:00 rest in the boat and repeat the same depth resulting in a massive squeeze (pink foamy blood everywhere). Someone else BO'd during their warm-up, and still attempted their target dive.. of course this resulted in a BO. Two other divers LMC'd and continued to dive. I assume this is a regular thing over there because no one but me (the only person not to have done my courses there) was phased by it.

This isn't normal though. I've trained with some of the best in the world and I live in Dahab, where there's a constant influx of freedivers from everywhere around the world, and this kinda thing doesn't happen. So what ever you're being told.. If (big if) you LMC/BO, 100% stop diving for the day. Also, you don't need to LMC to progress..

My final advice.. Take some time (2weeks) off.

Stop diving to 30m until your EQ and speed is solid on 20-25m dives

Make sure not to train every day.. The body needs rest.. 3-4 days of deep diving maximum per week especially with the Utila-style 2.5-3hr sessions
 

Tzla

New Member
Feb 15, 2020
5
0
1
32
The other advice on the thread is valid, however regardless of what exactly caused your sambas in the first place.. The most concerning thing to me is that you are having them 'every time' you dive, and 'sometimes having 2'.

For sure if you have 1 samba, your day of diving should be finished. Any instructor or buddy that allows you to continue diving after a samba is either; completely inexperienced, or simply doesn't care about your life. It's basically the same thing as having a TKO in boxing (not fully out, but concussed) and then taking more hard shots to the head. Chances are you'll more easily be concussed again, and the risk of long term brain damage is really high.

The reasoning behind this is that your brain releases stress chemicals after an samba or blackout. It can take up to 6 weeks for the levels to return back to normal. If you have another one within that time, you begin to accumulate stress chemicals in the brain further increasing your risk of having LMC or BO, and putting yourself a long-term risk of degenerative brain diseases.

Chances are, your instructor told you " there's no risk to BO if you're rescued".. This is BS, and all the current research shows that this is BS. if you want a starting pint.. listen to this podcast with;

Fred Lemaitre (freediving's leading physiologist) http://freedivecafe.com/2019/02/17/56-frederic-lemaitre/

Now, I don't mean to "call anyone out" but in this case I think it's really important.

You're profile location suggests you're diving in Utila. I trained there once upon a time, and what I saw blew my mind.

On one session alone, I witnessed an instructor at the school have a small lung squeeze, take 30:00 rest in the boat and repeat the same depth resulting in a massive squeeze (pink foamy blood everywhere). Someone else BO'd during their warm-up, and still attempted their target dive.. of course this resulted in a BO. Two other divers LMC'd and continued to dive. I assume this is a regular thing over there because no one but me (the only person not to have done my courses there) was phased by it.

This isn't normal though. I've trained with some of the best in the world and I live in Dahab, where there's a constant influx of freedivers from everywhere around the world, and this kinda thing doesn't happen. So what ever you're being told.. If (big if) you LMC/BO, 100% stop diving for the day. Also, you don't need to LMC to progress..

My final advice.. Take some time (2weeks) off.

Stop diving to 30m until your EQ and speed is solid on 20-25m dives

Make sure not to train every day.. The body needs rest.. 3-4 days of deep diving maximum per week especially with the Utila-style 2.5-3hr sessions
Thanks for the advice, I appreciate it! I am not allowed to dive anymore after a samba. I do take that seriously because I don’t want to hurt myself, especially my brain. The last place I dived, more than a year ago, I was having 2 sometimes. The first would be very light, then the second a bit stronger if I could make it to depth. I wasn’t able to train consistantly there because of sinus problems.

I previously thought that was normal for me trying to push myself out of my comfort zone or just being inefficient, now that I am training consistently and have the proper instruction I know it is not. Ive only just started reaching more than 30m on my last few dives, so it only was in the last few days that this was happening recently.
I included my two different diving experiences together for the purpose of one question, tho I can see where that would be misleading. Im glad this is not considered a normal thing, I did have some initial concern that having a history of concussions would make me more susceptible to sambas.

I am very interested in learning more about this and how to avoid it, so thank you for taking the time to recommend a starting point and the solid training advice!
 
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