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Sea Angling for Spearos

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
Thanks Omega3, I feel like I just got a glimpse of another world (Water World perhaps?!). Looks exciting. (I'll PM you the Mr. X story).
 
Interesting that you like the new plastic bait Miles. I read about them on a US website a couple of weeks ago, as you say used for freshwater bass fishing. There is a guy in Cornwall that vacuum packs sandeels & the like & sells them on ebay too. Prob. a good idea for folk like me - but guys who live by the sea & fish a lot probably catch their own bait easily & cheaply(?).

Magpie, saw this on ebay .. DAIWA AMORPHOUS WHISKER UPTIDER: [ame]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320009453923&ssPageName=ADME:BS:UK:28[/ame]
(I'm cancelling the search though, lest I be tempted into further purchases rofl).
 
Mr. X you might like a go at Salt water flyfishing. I have done a bit of it just off the rocks in and around the Gannel Estuary with my 9ft Malachite rod and have had some reasonable takes. I would say approaching some offshore rocks etc. by use of a sea kayak (which I know you like) would be interesting too. Flyflicker is probably the man to add to this fully. Be interested to see some pics of sea flies. I personally have had success with predominantly weighted minnow greens/green-blacks.

Regards
 
Mr. X said:
Magpie, saw this on ebay .. DAIWA AMORPHOUS WHISKER UPTIDER: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320009453923&ssPageName=ADME:BS:UK:28
(I'm cancelling the search though, lest I be tempted into further purchases rofl).
Click to expand...

Thats not one of the proper AW rods, its a more recent one with the name tagged on, and "uptiders" are used for boat fishing, casting from a boat up the tide and letting a big bow of line out, not shore casting.

Nope, haven't tried the powerbait Miles but you can get it so might have to one of these days.
 
SurfnSpear said:
Mr. X you might like a go at Salt water flyfishing. ...
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I'd never really thought about fly fishing (except after watching a River Runs Through It, of course...who wouldn't want to flyfish after seeing that) but several people have mentioned it recently. I hadn't realised that flyfishing was used for sea fishing until I recently read Mike Ladel's book (he uses a marine wood louse fly to catch bass sometimes). My next door neighbour showed me a 3lb+ brown trout he caught recently on the local river (possibly at a fish farm?). A couple of guys at work: one goes to Ireland to fish every year, the other, originally from Kenya, takes his rod & fishes all over the world (he just lent me the book "The Complete Guide to Fishing Skills" by Tony Whieldon). A 70 year old fisherman on the beach at the weekend told me his kids recently bought him a days fishing (£65!) and he caught a 9.5lb rainbow trout. A former colleague took his wife on a flyfishing holiday to Canada (from the NW USA).

When I was young, the chairman or secretary of the British Flyfishing Association lived in our village. A distinguished gentleman, retired Brigadier. He would take his big yellow vintage Rolls Royce down to Wales every year fishing. I guess I was left with the impression that it was a stylish but expensive pursuit!

Presumably you need a special fly rod, reel & line? I would love to try it. I think it would be good to do from the seashore too. It just seems like there is not enough time (or money!) for me to pursue fishing fully. Must start doing the lottery!
 
Hiya

Told you, you were opening a can of worms!!!

Salt Water Fly Fishing. Up until fairly recently, maybe the last 5 years or so, fly fishing was mainly a fresh water sport. Then Salt Water Fly Fishing boomed!!! With such a large variety of fish that'll succumb to a fly, its amazing the sport didn't become popular sooner!!

I'm HOPELESS at Salt Water Fly Fishing. Tried it on a handfull of occasions, but some-how lost interest. What happened here: most anglers here start out in freshwater lakes or dams or rivers, then moving onto estuary and tidal rivers before finally moving off to sea fishing. As the angler grows in the sport, so does his need to challenge himself. Once you've mastered the art of catching a certain fish on certain tackle, you start trying different approaches. You start fishing lighter lines, just for the fun of it. Finally, you switch to Salt Water Fly Fishing. You need LOTS of experience to be a succesful fly fisherman. You need to be able to "read" the water, know which tides work best, for which area's. Your casting distance in very small. I've seen guys casting 40-50m+, which is AMAZING, with a fly-rod. Your normal distance would be anything from 10-30m depending on your casting prowess. Your days are also limited to good weather conditions. Pretty difficult casting a deceiver into a strong head wind. Then there's tackle!!rofl rofl Rods are classified in a WEIGHT system. I use a 9wt rod for general salt water fly fishing. Its a bit heavy for estuary use, but we often get fish well over 20kg's, so i'd rather be over-powered!! The tuna guys use 12wt+ rods, whilst the freshwater trout anglers use 4-6wt's. The reels are also different from fresh water fly fishing reels. In freshwater, the reel only holds the line, much line a spearfishing reel. For salt water, the reels have drag systems and the handle/s don't spin backwards when a fish takes line!! (OUCH!!) Then there's lines. The BASIC lines are the floating, sinking and intermediate lines. There are some more, like shooting heads, lead core, etc........becomes quite technical, some-one with more experience than me is sure to chip in!!!

After all of this, when you actually hook and land your first fish on fly tackle, you'll KNOW what the fuss is all about!!

If you're really keen on trying it out, start off catching small easy to catch fish. Like mackerel. You'll get to learn how to use your equipment as well as build up confidence in your ability!!

Now the BIGGEST trick is to decide, WHEN are you going to buy that BIG 4x4 to cart all your gear around. Its now your kayak, spearing gear, spinning gear, rock and surf gear and now also fly fishing gear!!!

Regards
miles
 
Reactions: mishu1984, SurfnSpear and Mr. X
Miles, nobody can accuse you of not fully exploring fishing!

I don't think a regular 4x4 would be big enough for all that gear -- you'd need a big one, like Chevy Suburban (like my old climbing buddy had) or bigger, a roof rack & a trailer or two (like they use for camping in Western Australia). 4x4s (and variants thereof) are becoming fairly popular here -- presumably for the ubiquitous urban speed bumps, pot holes & flooded roads (they rarely maintain road drainage these days). I already get whined at when we go away because of the spearing gear, kayak stuff & fishing gear (which is the smallest part) - I don't think anymore will be tolerated. Boats are a no-no subject.

By the way, you have great taste in reels -- I see the Stella is described as the best fixed spool reel in the world! I guess for fish the size you guys get in SA it is worth it and required. For the odd small pollock...probably not.
 
I have been thinking about shock leaders & weighted Eddystone eels. It just seems a little too complicated (tried it before on the Shimano but the knot used to interfere with casts) so I am thinking of getting some 20lb braid, per Foxfish's earlier suggestion on the Cornwall thread. That way I don't need a shock leader but still get a nice fine line at the all important fishy end.

It seems like it might cost £12 or £14 pounds (gulp! as much as my new reel!) - I will shop around a bit. Mike Ladle suggested starting with 20lb Fireline. Do you guys have brand preferences?

I will probably get a small reel at some point, probably a Shimano 2000 or 2500. Seem like rear drag is generally used for spinning rather than the fromt drag(?). It seems like a small reel will be enough with low diameter braid. Although meantime, I am thinking of getting the braid first & putting it on my old Abu 505...which I think is really intended for freshwater spinning with 6-8lb line. It has a nice star-drag system too.

No spearing this weekend - 12mph winds out of the SW look foreboding. I also racked up an impressive petrol bill last month . Crab cakes for tea though.
 
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Fireline is a good quality braid although I prefer spiderwire. Some braids are very supple, too supple to cast without causing tangles. The round profile stiffer braids are best for casting, fireline is one. However you dont need such lines to catch fish, a good 15lb mono works very well, try your locale course fishing tackle shop. There are superb low stretch monos available in 100mt spools that the carp & barbel boys use. I have landed some big fish on 12lb mono. Mr x lure fishing in our waters will never produce the same amount of fish that bait fishing will. A good bait to try is squid or calamari from the super market, a frozen 1kg pack is cheap to buy & should last you a few sessions. Try drifting with your bait on the bottom, use a simple boom, 2oz lead & 3' of trace line. A size one or one "o" hook will do the business. While you are paddling swap to a 1oz lead & troll the same rig with thin 3'' strip of squid & let out different amounts of line to fish different depths.
 
Reactions: Mr. X
Spoken with the confidence of experience. I will give it try. I think I have the bits & pieces required. Not sure about availability of squid/calamari round here (had to buy a card today - easy, local store only had one option!) - I will look out for it though. We often buy mackeral, the book I borrowed shows a mackeral head used as a bait for bass - any good? Was wondering about the artificial baits Miles mentioned, or the vacuum packed fresh sandeels (I see sandeels, or something similar, a lot in the waters I fish)... as I tend to only get a few hours fishing in every couple of weeks.

On holiday we'll prob. buy some local fish, most likely mackeral to eat. The leftovers can be used as bait (or to bait my cray/lobster/bait trap). Might be worth getting a big bag of squid/calamari in for the hol.
 
If you can find it Power Pro is the best braid I've used by far, its american but shows up on ebay for reasonable prices occasionally.

Foxy right, unless you're an expert bait will definately produce more than spinning will. You'd do a lot worse than getting down to the beach at low tide and digging some rag or lugworm, its free!
 
PMFJI chaps, this a thread which passed me by...

May I introduce myself? I've been lure fishing for saltwater fish in the UK for 30 odd years. For bass and shore pollack I normally used either an 11' or 9' fast taper 1-3 oz bass rod and abu 6500 / 5500 reel. 11lb sylcast line was great. It was a 'hard' mono and cheap too so it both resisted abraision and could be cut back / reversed / changed without significant cost. I caught lots of fish...

These days, carbon rods are the norm and their relative stiffness keeps better contact with the lure. Add braid and you are in virtual direct contact. Power Pro is good and is quite a stiff braid better suited for multipliers (IMO). Softer braids works better with fixed spool reels.

From the shore, I now tend to use Normark blanks of around 9' with an optimum casting weight of around 15 grams, teamed with a fixed spool and 30lb braid. 10-15 lb mono would be fine too. I have never found the need to use a 'rubbing trace' of hiegher strength / diameter but keep and eye on the condition of the last few yards of your line.

From the boat a similar weight, carbon rod (I like Dave Lumb's baitcasters) of about 7.5' with 5/6000 multiplier is perfect with 50lb braid and a short mono leader.

Use floating poppers / chuggers / walkers for calm conditions surface work, shallow and deep diving plugs (in silver, blue, red head, mackeral pattern work well), and for deeper work use leaded gills and shads (with additional lead).

Fly fishing is a whole new subject.

For bass about a 9 weight shooting head, fast sinking line is a good starting place. Its easy to cast a heavy, wet fly. Avoid baits which take up water as they are a pig to cast. Tie your flies with weed guards and keep knots smooth with an application of super glue to ward off weed. Smaller fish, ie. Mullet, will require lighter lines, perhaps a 5 weight forward taper. Use cheap lines in the salt.

You don't need deep water to fish bass. I have often stood out with my chest waders / dry / wet suit and cast into the shore!

I could go on and on... but I hope this helps.
 
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Reactions: Mr. X
CLA Gamefair at Broadland, Romsey, Hants 2006

Magpie, were you casting at the CLA Game Fair at Broadlands, Romsey, Hants.?

I went yesterday - it was huge & extremely well done. There were hundreds of fishing stalls next to the River Test (gorgeous river for fly fishing). With flyfishing competitions, lessons & demos.

I resisted the temptation to buy any fishing gear but got a chance to checkout a few reels & a super fly rod by Orvis that had practically no weight at all. There were also some huge game fishing rods & reels ... including a brass reel the size of one of those mega-coffee cans and squid lures the size of my arm; the sort of thing Miles might use! Somebody showed me a picture of a 1000+lb marlin - how on earth do they get that onboard the boat?

Marlin Fishing in Australia with Australian Marlin fishing Charters


Checked out the Shimano Exage 2500 & 4000, the Shimano Stradic 2500 and an Okuma 30 (similar size to the shimano 2500s). All seemed pretty nice. The 2500 & 4000s are both strikingly compact/small although the 2500s are noticeably smaller. The Exage & Stradic are both upper mid-range reels. The Exage is glossy & smooth although the Stradic is even smoother, silky smooth in fact. Seems like you can get an Exage for around 30-40 pounds & the Stradic about half as much again. Didn't see many of the lower range models on display but they were available (e.g. one vendor offer to get a Shimano Nexave from their van), the Shimano Alvio seemed smooth but plasticky.

Picked up a leaflet from a guy called Andrew Bett who has just published a book on using barometers for flyfishing! Apparently insects hatch on a rising barometer, triggering feeding activity in trout and salmon. Didn't have time to hear the whole story though.


Other stuff:
River Cottage had a small food stand tucked away in a corner and the Countryside Alliance hosted an impressive display tent, refreshments tent & demonstrations all day (gun dog training, game preparation, etc.). Fun off-road rides were given by Toyota in a selection of Land Cruisers. Climbing wall, mini off-road go-karts, shooting lessons (clays & archery), cowboy show. For the well heeled: a huge Bentley stand, small Aston Martin stand, Purdey & Churchill gun makers (among many others), & the best porta-loos (& showers) I've ever seen at an outside event (real Armitage Shanks procelain!). We only saw half of the show ground though & hardly any of the numerous simultaneous demonstrations. Lots of kayak stuff too including Perception (including one with 4 rod holders!), Seyvlor inflatible kayaks & numerous sit-ons, inflatibles, dory's, a huge RIB, an aluminium canal longboat and a camo kayak with built-on wildfowling hide & decoys! Quite a few offers & bargains to be had if you were shopping for gear or subscriptions.
 
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No the event wasn't at the CLA, it needs so much room its difficult to find venues. Put it this way, some of Danny Moeskops crack offs were found 500 yards away!

The competition was great foxy. It was amazing to watch the best in the world showing how it should be done.

Myself I didn't do too badly, in the pendulum section I finished 20th out of 50 something overall (thats combined best casts with 100, 125 and 150grams (218, 223 and 216 metres respectively). I did better in the Off The Ground section, finishing 10th with 214m.

Full results is anyones interested can be found here: http://uksf.sea-angler.org/results/2006plc.html (I'm the small one in the green, front row, centre)
 
Tim1 said:
PMFJI ...
You don't need deep water to fish bass. I have often stood out with my chest waders / dry / wet suit and cast into the shore!
...
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Welcome Tim. Just saw your post - that is heck of a lot of useful info. in a single post! Thanks for sharing. What sort of lures do you use? I have been using Rapala-style lures & Eddystone eels so far. I've caught fish in the past on Mepp-style spinners mainly (& mackeral on mackeral spinners & feathers). Found an article on Portland lure fishing at the weekend & the guy's fav. lure is a bright orange jointed lure:

Had to laughed, as I recently painted a big, bright orange Rapala-style lure from a Lidl's tackle box blue & white:head. I guess the idea is to use something that is hard to miss: bright & vibrating/rattling - rather than worry too much about it looking exactly like a fish. So much for my grey & white Rapala J13 ...actually supposed to be good in clear water on bright days - I can rarely see it in the water though.

Magpie, are the top guys built like shot putters? (Was surprised to see an eating contest on TV in the USA won by a little Japanese guy...up against some of the biggest guys I have ever seen!).
 
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http://www.harrissportsmail.com/ is a good source of baits. Top tip; make sure you buy baits rigged for sea water. Ordinary bronzed hooks will rust in no time. Usually, subtle actions and colours work better in calmer, clearer, shallower conditions and visa versa.
 
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Reactions: Mr. X
Well the best, Danny, is huge yeh, 6ft 4ish, must be 20stone, but he can move so quickly its incredible.
There are other big lads, but most of the best are a fair size but not overly large. Its mostly about technique more than raw power, though power with technique will of course beat the same technique from a weakling like myself
 
Finally, something i can relate to on this forum! i have been fishing forever, its so much fun. right now i am using a Penn 5500SS Spinfisher, loaded with 20 lb. Trilene Big Game line, and a 7 foot Shakespeare Ugly Stik rod, which can handle 1-6 oz. lure weight, which is incredible. my favorite type of fishing is going after stripers with plugs and divers. i have a Yo-Zuri crystal minnow with a big lip on it, and i use that from docks around midnight, and the fast, wide wiggling action just drives those stripers nuts! these stripers are in the 19-22 inch range, which in my opinion fights the best. i usually pull in about 12-15 of these a night. its really easy and its so much fun.

now, if i want to get the bigger ones, i have a Penn 310 GTi, loaded with 20 lb. Big Game line, on a Cabela's house brand rod (soon to be replaced). i make a leader out of 50 lb. leader material or out of flurocarbon. on one end i tie a swivel, and on the other i tie either a Penn 5/0 Saltwater hook or a Gamakatsu 6/0 circle hook. then i put an egg sinker on my main line, usually about 3-4 ozs., then, i tie the leader setup to my main line. i throw on a huge ball of squid, cut into strips, and i drop this down to the bottom. i tie my rod into my rod holder, and i put the clicker on. when the clicker starts zinging, i know i have a fish! i have caught 3 25+ lb. stripers, an 18 lb bluefish, a 42 inch long sandshark, and a 5 lb fluke, all with this setup. trust me, it works. well, thats my 2 cents for the day. ill definately be on later with this thread, cheers.
 
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