Skin for Dynamics

Wow, William Trubdridge introduces the Orca Free suit on his website. It looks promissing: William Trubridge News

More info at Orca: http://www.orca.com/freediving.html

William in Orca Free in hydro tunnel :

Orca Free looks really promissing! There will be a cheaper Orca Breathe-model, based on RS1 and Epuiq Lite, too. It can mean that Free will be quite a expensive. Let's hope that Breathe is good too.

Our first test in pool with Speedo LZR:
- Materials are quite strong as a top competitive swimming suit
- It's good in DYN. And probably in CWT if really warm open water
- In DNF and CNF Orca is probably still better with grip panels for hand strokes etc, but it depends on person. LZR doesn't float at all so we notice that legs MAY sink when gliding in DNF if no fat in legs. So a part of freedivers can have a problem with balancing in DNF, but using cellular plastic pieces as a float under suit on legs is one possible trick for that.
- When looking LZR sizing table, it's obvious that top swimmers must be very tall with a special shape of body. No wonder:

BTW, this is a real non-edited pic of a top swimmer.
Water covers a part of his body down from waist, but you can clearly see the point. They scanned hundreds of swimmers' bodies to get the right sized Fast skin and LZR suits for swimmers.

We are 183-186 cm tall male freedivers, but we are even with packing Medium size in LZR size table! Hmm... only our waist is as big or even much bigger than that of top swimmers
But no worry, suit is very flexible, so you can use it. Legs, hips and waist are challencing parts when first time putting the suit on, but chest part in not the problem (for male freedivers), like it can be to swimmers

It must be put on as dry (both your skin and suit) and it's still not easy, but not very much harder either than a wetsuit or Orca. For normal training use it can be a little too difficult and time-consumíng to put it on. And maybe you want save it to competitions. Ofcourse it's not warm like a wetsuit. Orca RS1 not warm either, but by Will's comments Orca Free should be warmer than RS1.

But anyway: LZR is probably excelent suit for DYN competitions. But not special for DNF if compared to Orca suits, but ofcourse much better in DNF glides than without a suit. We will make more testing.



Here is an interesting University Study with a short 3D computer analyzing video about dolphin kick and drag:
Flow Simulations and Analysis Group Analyzing the Dolphin Kick of Top Olympic Competitors (Phelps and Coughlin) -
http://www.tecplot.com/images/showcase/contours/issue_32/GWU-Re3000II.swf (dark blue is the vorticity around a body)
Tecplot: Case Studies

do you notice some glide improvment compared to the orca suits?is flexible enough for packing?
thx for the update

Packing is easy, LZR is flexible like swimming suits are, altough it must fit very tightly. The panels don't strech much, but the black textile between panels is very, very strechy.

Glide seems to be about as good as with Orca (we have RS1 and Apex2) or just little better, but we have not tested enough yet to say by sure. In high speed LZR seems to be excelent...no wonder if you think what use it is done for. It's good in DYN because body movements and streamlining is very easy to do and you don't need a waist weight (if you use it with wetsuit). Also there is no problem with water coming in on the neck, like we have sometimes with Orca RS1 (not a problem with RS1 in DNF with big neck weight).

In DNF more weights can be a advantage giving longer glides, but in DYN it's a little different case with weights.

I put there some more info to my earlier post above.

I wonder about lifespan - most of those high-end performance suits are intended for very limited use.

Fondueset said:

I wonder about lifespan - most of those high-end performance suits are intended for very limited use.

Click to expand...

That's true. But LZR hydropanels are strong, feels like thin but strong raincoat material. The guestion is how long the black strechy textile between panels and on lower legs last in use.

We have heard that LZR like other high tech swimming suits is VERY TIGHT only during some first times (up to 5 times), as it should be for top swimmwers in competitions. But freedivers don't use so much speed and power, so it streches probably less in freediving use. Tightness is most important in high speed like competitive swimming and finswimming, not so essential in lower speed like freediving training.

But sure: wetsuits and tri-suits like Orca last longer.
Speedo FastSkin, LZR and other performance swimming suits are in freediving use mainly for DYN competitions, DYN pb attemps etc. Also for CWT competitions and deep attemps in very warm open water.

I like to use just leg fast skin for my dynamic with fins dives, I do not see any more drag then with full body fast skin, and my position maintenance and movements are much easier and relaxed, plus my breathing before dive and final inhalation to...

I did not experiment with DNF but I think tri-suit of some kind will give me few meters of advantage... Plus it's nice not to froze your ass in the pool...

I have 2 RS1s for sale. See goods for sale.

More testing with Speedo LZR fullsuit:

After testing it, I (just an average older freediver) and my buddy (competitive young freediver with maxs 180+ dnf and 200+ dyn) have the same opinion:

To us Orca is in DNF better than LZR: Orca is easier to balance for DNF glide, it has (partly therefor) a longer glide, and strokes are more effective with Orca (e.g. it's panels...). But for somebody who absolutely wants to have free arms and shoulders in DNF, LZR may be good for DNF.

In DYN it's a different case. Speedo LZR - as probably also other high performance swimming suits - is very good in DYN:
No balance problems with monofin (about 0,5-1 kg less weights than with Orca RS1, no need to use weight belt). (No balance problems with Orca either).
Glides are good.
It's easy to do body movements and streamlining (arms and shoulders are free).
No suit problems in high speed. I tested monofin sprint 25 s/50 m with a slow turn, means over 2 m/s speed if the turn is not included. It feels very good.

In DYN Orcas are good, too. It's not that big difference. Both suit are about equal in speed, I tested in DYN with normal competitive/training style, doublekick and glide:
- without suit (not litterally): 24 sec with 3,5 douplekicks (=7 kicks)
- Orca RS1: 22 sec with 2,5 doublekicks (5 kicks), and 20 sec with 3 doublekicks (6 kicks)
- Speedo LZR swimming fullsuit: 22 sec with 2,5 doublekicks (5 kicks) and 20 sec with 3 douplekicks (6 kicks).
If you want more speed in DYN, with LZR it's VERY easy to do these 1 sec faster. But I tried do it just the same way with all suits, so then there is not a difference to Orca in figures above (with my tests, including about 15-20 times/ suit).

If you like to keep shoulders and arms free, and like that suit must give you much freedom for body movements, a high tech swimsuit is a very good solution. LZR is a swimming suit, so it's not warm as Orca. Elios 1.5-2 mm is much warmer. Somebody want a warm suit, somebody want for dynamic (especially for training) a suit, which is not too warm. So it depends.

About sizing of LZR: as said earlier it's done for top swimmers and for their special shape of body. It is challencing to put on the lower part of suit from legs to waist, but the upper part is easy. There is room to get your lungs full and to pack. If you are short and not having a wide back and not a large breast/chest (I mean men primaly) LZR suit is maybe too long and the upper part not thight enough. For our competitive 183 cm tall freediver the right size seems to be ML. XL is really for a tall and big man (Mullins or something) if you want that the upper part is very thight, too. BTW, the waist was not a big problem to put on, altough my waist is in normal situation (not pulling it smaller) 15 cm bigger than in LZR tables...

So don't buy too big size! The right size is extremely thigt from the lower part when first time putting it on, but you can do it if you have good nerves and enough time Be careful and check the video how to put it on.
Edit: Don't buy too short either! It hurts shoulders, not good for relaxing.

BTW:
LZR is very good in swimming, surprise ! I Broke the Record (of mine) with LZR in 25m swimming: 14.95 s I was feeling like a rocket when I made the start jump into the water - just like Phelps said! - but not having that much rocket feeling anymore when I swam - but I don't blame the suit for that rofl

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Speedo LZR Racer New Elite Bodyskin no arms -suit and our other suit tester (a competitive freediver):

The Blue Seventy Nero is probably worth mentioning here as well. A lot of athletes were wearing them at the World's in Aarhus, and it's easy to see why. They have the same type of nano coating as the RS1, giving them excellent glide characteristics, but because of their sleeveless construction they don't have the problem of bundling in the neck. And because of a well-placed area of extra stretchy material, the suit is tight while still allowing you to pack comfortably.

I recently got one and this is the first swim i did in it:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sv2DehyeIBc]YouTube - 166 dynamic with fin[/ame]

The suit lets you maintain really good contact with the water. It offers a little thermal protection as well. Whereas other swimskins i tried seemed to want to cut off my shoulders (the Yingfa and the Arena especially), the Nero was never in the way of getting a good streamline -though my neckweight was.

I give this information about LZR sizes because it's not so easy to be sure what size is the best, if you check only the size-table done for top class swimmers.

So about Speedo LZR fullskin sizes:
3 male freedivers 183-186 cm tall have tested size XL and/or M.
XL is too big for slim long freedivers (it was obvious).
M is too short. It hurts shoulders, badly. (a little surprise, because it should be suitable by LZR size tables).
But for the fourth longer and much bigger freediver XL is suitable (I mean he managed to put it on, with a hard and careful work).

Some quidelines for freedivers after our testing:
- ML (MediumLong) would be the right size for a slim 180-188 cm tall male freediver.
- L for a normal 180-185 cm freediver.
- LL (LargeLong) for 185+ cm with a normal or athletic or a little massive body
- If you are taller than about 185 cm AND a quite athletic or massive, XL may be the right.
- M or SL if you a shorter than 180 cm.
- For S size I can't give any futher advise, but probably it's suitable for about 165-175 cm.
As you see top-swimmers are tall.

But ofcourse, check always LZR sizing table, and think what is the shape of your body. In the first time the suit feels really small to put on, but it's meant to be so. If your waist is bigger than in the size table, that's not a big problem. It's more important that the lenght is right.

Hi All, I appreciate this discussion has moved on in recent weeks and I'm sure everyone is anxiously awaiting the results of the ORCA Free and Breathe suits but just to inform you (especially newbies like me) I have just managed to buy an ORCA RS1 size 7 direct from Orca. I'm not sure if this is only available to my region Ireland or not but it seems they are offering them again. Not sure if this is to do with recent enquiries / demand but it looks like good news for all of us who have been struggling to find a good starter suit within budget. I will stress my order has been confirmed and is awaiting shipping so it looks like they are processing it, if for some reason I receive another email suddenly stating actually "we are out of stock" or "don't make them anymore" I will let you know.
Thanks
Rory

Is it really the Orca RS1 Fullskn model? I do not see it anywhere on Orca's Ireland website. I see there only the RS1 Swimskin, which is an entirely different model. Orca Equip is closer to the old RS1 Fullskn. The cheaper S2 could be fine too.

Hi Trux,
It seems to be the RS1 Full sleeve alright
http://www.orca.com/product/orca-rs1-fullsleeve/orca-rs1-fullsleeve-size-7-male

It certainly let me process my order and I got a reply to that effect as I say I will wait to confirm if indeed they still stock it or it's available in the Ireland region. I would imagine / hope from a data protection point of view Orca should / would not process an order for an item unless it was available.
http://www.orca.com/category/wetsuits

If anyone is interestd ,I have 2 orcas listed in goods for sale

TimoP said:

I give this information about LZR sizes because it's not so easy to be sure what size is the best, if you check only the size-table done for top class swimmers.

So about Speedo LZR fullskin sizes:
3 male freedivers 183-186 cm tall have tested size XL and/or M.
XL is too big for slim long freedivers (it was obvious).
M is too short. It hurts shoulders, badly. (a little surprise, because it should be suitable by LZR size tables).
But for the fourth longer and much bigger freediver XL is suitable (I mean he managed to put it on, with a hard and careful work).

Some quidelines for freedivers after our testing:
- ML (MediumLong) would be the right size for a slim 180-188 cm tall male freediver.
- L for a normal 180-185 cm freediver.
- M or SL if you a shorter than 180 cm.
- For S size I can't give any futher advise, but probably it's suitable for about 165-175 cm.

But ofcourse, check always LZR sizing table, and think what is the shape of your body. In the first time the suit feels really small to put on, but it's meant to be so. If your waist is bigger than in the size table, that's not a big problem. It's more important that the lenght is right.

Click to expand...

Hello Timo

I bought Speedo LZR size M and I'm shocked about size
My sizes :

Tall 176 cm
chest 100cm (full breath)
body loop 166cm
waist 88cm
inside leg 70cm

speedo size M
chest 106 cm
boody loop 175
waist 81
inside leg 79!!

according to the speedo size a suit should be too large for me ! but it isn't !

I made pictures lenght of the leg see photo
Its only 47cm long ! Speedo says it is 79cm !! ?? :head
Wrzuta.pl - DSC03505

Wrzuta.pl - DSC03506

My tall is 176cm see how much is too small
Wrzuta.pl - DSC03492

Wrzuta.pl - DSC03510

I cant even put it on .

Timo could you send me sizes of yours suits and label/tag especially inside leg.
Wrzuta.pl - DSC03511

Whether the size L will be good for me or too big?

I have here now men's XL LZR, it's inside leg is about 50 cm and total length about 120 cmwhen it's not been put on. It has be used now about 4 times, and it was even smaller when it came. The measurements on the LZR size table are the body measurements, not the ones of the suit! The suit is very stretchy.
I'm 183 cm tall and and 90 kg (not slim...), and i can put XL LZR on. Even a "much" bigger man has put XL LZR on.
We had tested M LZR, too. Another (slimmer) 183 cm tall freediver put it on and did dives with it, but it was a little too short. If you are 176 cm and not massive, M should be ok, and L probably too big.

Your suit looks ok , but you must put it on in the right way
When looking at your pics, I think you have left leg parts all too down and so the hips part is not in the right place either. Legs/thights are really thight to put on. It's meant to be so. The upper part is easier, when you finally have got the suit over your hips and have put the hips part up in the right place.
Do it EXACTLY in this way:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqpQ3N954jA&feature=player_embedded"][/ame]
(Only one exception for the video: one extra person might be enough for the zip, not necessarely 2). In 1:44 you can see how small the suit looks out, note: the man is sitting then, not standing.

It's a lot the same with other top class swimming suits. They are very thight and strechy, not like wet suits. The first time is very diffucult to put it on, 20 minutes is needed or even more. Skin and suit must be dry.
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Maybe BlueSeventy Nero Comp suit is easier to put on? It seems to be a very good suit for freediving purposes, too. In fact, I will see soon Nero Comp in our testings, too.
-

Prices on swimskins are hitting the bottom:friday One of the few stores in Norway sold out everything with 90% discount. I got three Diana suits, and only had to pay about €120 wich is 1/10 of the original price. The funny part is that if you buy short pants you pay €200, if you buy long pants you pay €20. Normal speedos is almost €40 This is awesome for freedivers!! Men`s: Klubben.no / Badetøy herre / Konkurranse
Women`s:Klubben.no / Badetøy dame / Konkurranse
There are 8 womens Lzr left and 18 of the Blue seventy Nero comp!
If you`re going for Diana the store uses the UK sizes. I think size 28" is about the same as speedos M.

Hi!

I'm newly registered on this forum but It's a long time that I've been reading you all

I've just managed to purchase two orca wetsuit for almost nothing compared to the retail price...

More precisely I've bought a RS1 (size 7) and a Equip (size MT). 160€ for all the stuff including shipping

The shop is Matches for 'orca wetsuit' (thanks to the guy who posted it in a previous page!)

The stuff is arrived in less than a week and the wetsuits are perfect as new.

I'll soon write a review of both the wetsuits (one is mine and I've given the other to a friend)


bye, andrea


P.S. pay attention that the shop I have mentioned warn you that some of their discounted suits might have some slight damage from being tried on for size instore, this is whythey have discounted them so much.

P.P.S. sorry for you but now prices are definitely higher than before.

B-J said:

Prices on swimskins are hitting the bottom:friday One of the few stores in Norway sold out everything with 90% discount. I got three Diana suits, and only had to pay about €120 wich is 1/10 of the original price. The funny part is that if you buy short pants you pay €200, if you buy long pants you pay €20. Normal speedos is almost €40 This is awesome for freedivers!! Men`s: Klubben.no / Badetøy herre / Konkurranse
Women`s:Klubben.no / Badetøy dame / Konkurranse
There are 8 womens Lzr left and 18 of the Blue seventy Nero comp!
If you`re going for Diana the store uses the UK sizes. I think size 28" is about the same as speedos M.

Click to expand...

Thanks mate, Aarhus Freediving Club are really happy ;-)
It seems thou, that klubben.no only ship to Norway, but they are affiliated with swimshop.se, who has the same stuff, ships to other countries, and have prices in SEK; a really low value currency these days (sorry Sweden).

Again thanks B-J