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sled diving within AIDA
- Thread starter Will
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
, There was no answer in this thread for more than 90 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
dave, the safety dive was holding her with one arm and driving the scooter with the other one, and finning at the same time. a second safety joined them at 30m and held anna's other arm and head.
Hello Dave,
You may get a some kind of picture what those scooters may be capable for: http://freediving.pictures.fi/kuvat/2010/06+Okinawa/11+Fundive+and+cruising/
I took those pics at Okinawa last year with French team. Those scooters had also a gears so the driver was capable to adjust the speed.
br,
- kimmo
You may get a some kind of picture what those scooters may be capable for: http://freediving.pictures.fi/kuvat/2010/06+Okinawa/11+Fundive+and+cruising/
I took those pics at Okinawa last year with French team. Those scooters had also a gears so the driver was capable to adjust the speed.
br,
- kimmo
It sounds like safety freedivers with scooters would definitely make a valuable addition to the normal counter balance system for any type of diving. The biggest issue with safety scuba divers in the past is that they can’t do sudden depth changes because of DCS risks. It’s definitely a lot of work and high stress to be a safety diver for a comp. I have talked to quite a few divers about it, worked as a safety diver for a few comps myself. If a scooter makes the job easier and increases the safety for all divers in the comp I’m all for it. It was great that this system was there for Anna when she needed it.
Cheers,
Wal
Cheers,
Wal
I think we should all keep in mind that because of the involved elements and due to probability, there is the risk of that we will have this same discussion again, at some point, in one of the other dischiplines.
Decreasing the risk is usually possible to a point, after that it´s just probability. I´m glad to see that this discussion has spurred serveral safety measures.
Now it´s just the matter of implementing them. In any dischipline that is, not just NLT/VWT.
Decreasing the risk is usually possible to a point, after that it´s just probability. I´m glad to see that this discussion has spurred serveral safety measures.
Now it´s just the matter of implementing them. In any dischipline that is, not just NLT/VWT.
a bit of topic, but looking at poll results, it seems there's a space for creating 2 different associations:
-one dedicated to Freediving (constant weight)
-another dedicated to Slediving (variable weight).
Of course AIDA should focus in Freediving (right now AIDA only admits competitions in constant weight disciplines, what does this means about slediving?).
A new organization should be created to handle Slediving (for those who want to try depth for pleasure or for world/national "guinness" records).
Slediving can be a good tool for Freediving, but because you are dealing with a tool that can be very risky, you should take a licence to use it before hand from an "recognized" institution, that right now doesn't exist.
It's also interesting that AIDA had a course in slediving (at least in 2004 when i take my first AIDA course because it was mandatory to compete), but somehow it's off curriculum right now, again what does this mean?
I think there's a space for a new organization dedicated to Slediving, but AIDA have to let go off this sled disciplines from their curriculum.
I know it's hard because of AIDA legacy (same happened to CMAS), but i think this would clear things up.
-one dedicated to Freediving (constant weight)
-another dedicated to Slediving (variable weight).
Of course AIDA should focus in Freediving (right now AIDA only admits competitions in constant weight disciplines, what does this means about slediving?).
A new organization should be created to handle Slediving (for those who want to try depth for pleasure or for world/national "guinness" records).
Slediving can be a good tool for Freediving, but because you are dealing with a tool that can be very risky, you should take a licence to use it before hand from an "recognized" institution, that right now doesn't exist.
It's also interesting that AIDA had a course in slediving (at least in 2004 when i take my first AIDA course because it was mandatory to compete), but somehow it's off curriculum right now, again what does this mean?
I think there's a space for a new organization dedicated to Slediving, but AIDA have to let go off this sled disciplines from their curriculum.
I know it's hard because of AIDA legacy (same happened to CMAS), but i think this would clear things up.
Well, the thread starts to be rather long, so to avoid repeating over and over the same arguments, I compiled their recapitulation here (and my opinions to them)
Will the distancing of AIDA from VWT/NLT stop sled diving?
I think everyone agrees that no. Sleds will continue to be used for training and for fun uninfluenced by the ban.
Will the distancing stop VWT/NLT records?
Certainly not. Freedivers will continue setting PB's, NR's, and WR's just like they often did already in the past without the sanctioning of AIDA.
Will the distancing prevent future accidents?
Certainly no. I'd tell that rather oppositely, it will make them more likely. Without any governing body regulating the records and the safety, we can only expect more accidents.
Will the sled diving safety improve?
Likely not. At least no more thanks to AIDA. If AIDA stops recognizing the VWT/NLT records, it will certainly have a negative effect on improving the current sled diving guidelines. We will have to hope that the experts will form a new body, or move over to CMAS where they can work on the safety better.
Will the distancing help the development of freediving?
I do not think so. Rather oppositely:
Public: as I wrote, sled diving is one of the most visible freediving activities. I think that nobody will deny that a lot of people came to freediving under the influence of the movie The Big Blue, which is about nothing else than about sled diving.
Sponsors: Among the freedivers with nice sponsoring contracts, sled recordmen are represented clearly over-proportionally. Distancing from the extreme disciplines will necessarily cut a significant part of the sponsor interest.
Science: the VWT/NLT records and stunts are an important source of information about the behavior of the human body in extreme conditions
Will the distancing improve the image of AIDA?
I do not think so. The public has no idea about AIDA, freediving, or sled diving. For the majority of the public, sled diving is the only thing they know from freediving. Eight of ten documentaries or movies about freediving are focused on sled diving. The other two are about sharks. The danger is the only thing that interests the public, and hence also sponsors. When AIDA starts distancing from it, it has to count also with the decline of public interest, and the interest of sponsors.
Will the distancing help AIDA's growth?
Certainly not. Existing freedivers willing to continue with sled diving will do their records under CMAS, FREE, Guinness, or create another federation. Especially CMAS, who re-introduced several sled disciplines into their repertoire, will profit from it, and may start taking over the initiative and AIDA athletes not only locally (as already the case in many countries), but globally.
Will AIDA become a more athletic organization?
No. Practically all top sled divers are top CWT divers anyway, so it won't change the structure. Besides it, freediving will probably never be a purely athletic sport - unlike at most other sports, there are many more factors involved, hence at freediving competitions (including WC's) we can see together competitors of all ages (from teens to pensioners), and of all body builds (from athletic hard-bodies to couch potatos like myself), and they have all their chance to win. That's probably the most amazing on freediving. Personally I could not care less whether freediving is looked at as an athletic sport or not.
If we speak about the chance to get freediving to the Olympic Games, then AIDA has no chance anyway. If it ever happens, it will be the CMAS who will negotiate with the IOC.
Conclusion
So frankly told, although I am not at all a fan of sled diving, I see very few positives in the proposal to stop sanctioning sled diving records. I am afraid it would harm AIDA, and it would lead to more accidents.
I think that instead of it, AIDA should improve the safety guidelines, introduce a certification process for the equipment and for its operation, and start monitoring and enforcing the respecting of the guidelines (and remove the certification if not respected). A cooperation with an insurance agency may help enforcing the certification (it works in this way for example in France).
And if really the members of AIDA want to stop sanctioning records in sled disciplines, they must ban sleds in training too, otherwise it makes no sense.
Will the distancing of AIDA from VWT/NLT stop sled diving?
I think everyone agrees that no. Sleds will continue to be used for training and for fun uninfluenced by the ban.
Will the distancing stop VWT/NLT records?
Certainly not. Freedivers will continue setting PB's, NR's, and WR's just like they often did already in the past without the sanctioning of AIDA.
Will the distancing prevent future accidents?
Certainly no. I'd tell that rather oppositely, it will make them more likely. Without any governing body regulating the records and the safety, we can only expect more accidents.
Will the sled diving safety improve?
Likely not. At least no more thanks to AIDA. If AIDA stops recognizing the VWT/NLT records, it will certainly have a negative effect on improving the current sled diving guidelines. We will have to hope that the experts will form a new body, or move over to CMAS where they can work on the safety better.
Will the distancing help the development of freediving?
I do not think so. Rather oppositely:
Public: as I wrote, sled diving is one of the most visible freediving activities. I think that nobody will deny that a lot of people came to freediving under the influence of the movie The Big Blue, which is about nothing else than about sled diving.
Sponsors: Among the freedivers with nice sponsoring contracts, sled recordmen are represented clearly over-proportionally. Distancing from the extreme disciplines will necessarily cut a significant part of the sponsor interest.
Science: the VWT/NLT records and stunts are an important source of information about the behavior of the human body in extreme conditions
Will the distancing improve the image of AIDA?
I do not think so. The public has no idea about AIDA, freediving, or sled diving. For the majority of the public, sled diving is the only thing they know from freediving. Eight of ten documentaries or movies about freediving are focused on sled diving. The other two are about sharks. The danger is the only thing that interests the public, and hence also sponsors. When AIDA starts distancing from it, it has to count also with the decline of public interest, and the interest of sponsors.
Will the distancing help AIDA's growth?
Certainly not. Existing freedivers willing to continue with sled diving will do their records under CMAS, FREE, Guinness, or create another federation. Especially CMAS, who re-introduced several sled disciplines into their repertoire, will profit from it, and may start taking over the initiative and AIDA athletes not only locally (as already the case in many countries), but globally.
Will AIDA become a more athletic organization?
No. Practically all top sled divers are top CWT divers anyway, so it won't change the structure. Besides it, freediving will probably never be a purely athletic sport - unlike at most other sports, there are many more factors involved, hence at freediving competitions (including WC's) we can see together competitors of all ages (from teens to pensioners), and of all body builds (from athletic hard-bodies to couch potatos like myself), and they have all their chance to win. That's probably the most amazing on freediving. Personally I could not care less whether freediving is looked at as an athletic sport or not.
If we speak about the chance to get freediving to the Olympic Games, then AIDA has no chance anyway. If it ever happens, it will be the CMAS who will negotiate with the IOC.
Conclusion
So frankly told, although I am not at all a fan of sled diving, I see very few positives in the proposal to stop sanctioning sled diving records. I am afraid it would harm AIDA, and it would lead to more accidents.
I think that instead of it, AIDA should improve the safety guidelines, introduce a certification process for the equipment and for its operation, and start monitoring and enforcing the respecting of the guidelines (and remove the certification if not respected). A cooperation with an insurance agency may help enforcing the certification (it works in this way for example in France).
And if really the members of AIDA want to stop sanctioning records in sled disciplines, they must ban sleds in training too, otherwise it makes no sense.
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Hi again,
Yes, freediving and breath-hold activity under water can be dangerous.
And to make it less dangerous you have to train hard and correct, and also make sure you use the right/correct safety for your dives/discipline. Then we have the super important depth-adaptation that have to be done gently and thoroughly (!!!).
Now to try provide some constructive input:
If you would like to make a new WR in VWT, let say you're a woman and have to make 127m to be successful. Then how many training dives below 120m do you have to do before you can say that you controlling that depth ??? How should the progress look like ??? 30 dives to 90m, 20 dives to 100m, 15 dives to 110m, 10 dives to 120m and 10 dives to 125-130m ??? If the athlete always surface with a big smile and without any signs of problem, this even on all the 125+ training dives... then we have an athlete who might be ready for the official dive to 127m. BUT who many athletes do this kind of training/preparation before the official attempt ??? And how big is the chance to have a 35m+ BO on the official attempt if the preparation and rest is done in the right way and all 20 dives to 120m and below (in VWT) have ended perfect with a big smile ??? (and how many athletes take the rest they need before the next dive?)
Then we have the question about HOW big steps can you do when you decide you want to go deeper than you've ever been before? 5m?? 10m??? or only 2m???? And then: how many dives do you have to dive to a certain depth before you decide to go deeper ??? These are all questions that pretty much is up to the athlete and his/her team today BUT should it be regulated and tracked down in a official log-book ??? (maybe an official AIDA pre-wr-attempt-log-book?)
If you ask me, I would love to see this official log-book... and with this we would have a BIG decreased in accidents in our all depth disciplines, at least when it comes to bo's at depth. It's all about develop the right standards and then follow them to 100%. AIDA have to come up with rules that makes it close to impossible to insert "fake-dives" into this log-book. This log should be online and be followed on the net at least 6 weeks before the official attempt. AND YES... this comes to depth competitions as well. To announce a wr depth (or all announces deeper than a certain depth) you have to show your log-book, and confirm that you are ready for your announcement.
What I try to say is that correct training and preparation is the big fundament when it comes to less accidents and that AIDA maybe should take the step to ask for a perfect log-book before saying yes for an official depth wr attempt under the flag of AIDA. This include all 5 depth disciplines.
efattah: I was not at the WC in Sardinina 1998, (I was at the IAFD -Red Sea dive off in El Gouna) BUT I have seen the video of his surfacing (and his rescue) and I could not see any chest compressions only mouth to mouth and then he stand up, looks to be ashamed, and walk away.
chrismar: Herbert sled was good and expensive BUT the cone was far from perfect. The cone was not sealed in the right way and after some trainings it (the material on the inside) was soaked and not doing the ideal-work as it did in the start. I am sure that Herbert and Tryggons already have a perfect solution to this when it's time for the next dive.
simos: When you say: "in the best interest of freediving as a sport, but for their personal reasons". You have to understand/remember that NoLimits is and will always be the most spectacular and most media magnet discipline we have. And then also the deepest and the one with THE long history filled with white, but also some black day. And with this in your mind you understand that freedivers that don't do this discipline would be "better off" in media and in dealing with sponsors (etc) if this sled-discipline('s) was removed from the official record-books. Then when we talking about the document: Aida guidelines for sled diving. We all know that this document is a "dynamic guideline" and will/should be updated and go along with the latest research in the field. Nothing else is expected. Of course you could ask for more specific details in all levels when it comes to "a proper safety system" and other mentioned (jargon) things, and we could ask AIDA to make an appendix with this details.
will: Your post #150 does not help here at all. We all know that the risks in freediving gets higher every meter you go deeper, and with this the risks in NL is a lot higher. BUT your "number madness" is just a not that great try to underline your opinion on the matter (this if you ask me). You also avoid the inclusion of the fatal-accidents in the other disciplines. Without counting them all, we have the DYNAMIC fatal-accident in Brazil (CMAS) and the STATIC fatal-accident in Sweden. Then you talking about AIDA-registered dives (?) and you start to include IAFD dives and training dives outside of the supervision of AIDA. Don't you understand that AIDA can-not control private trainings and have no power at all when it comes to less-safety thinking persons doing there own thing out there. If you start to include AIDA in you "number madness", please use the list of dives done inside of AIDA, here I am talking about dives and competitions where AIDA have official judges at the dive site, judging and checking everything officially for AIDA. And fyi Cyril Isoardi did not have any guideline to follow, not even a simple lanyard. Audrey Mester did not have any lanyard, no CB system, lack of scuba safety and no air in the tank when she was opening the valve at 171m (manslaughter). Loic LeFerme was presumably lack of sufficient distance between the diveline and the bottom and that he was caught by something, net or a rope/line that was adhesion/fixed down there. Maybe an old fishing net that got stuck in the rest of the anti-submarin things that still can be found on the bottom of the bay of Villefranche-sur-Mer. The depth at the dive site was 190m and inclined, the dive was to 171m. Adel disconnected himself. Non of them followed the points that are reviewed in the guideline that was made after the lost of Loic.
have a nice day all and do not forget to take your time on the depth-adaptation, gently and thoroughly.
/Bill
ps. ghost line exist but I have never seen any or heard that this have been a problem in official AIDA event. Soo yes, I still think that the athlete, when it comes to sled-diving, should not be able to disconnect himself from the dive line. There are many ways to make this work perfect.
Yes, freediving and breath-hold activity under water can be dangerous.
And to make it less dangerous you have to train hard and correct, and also make sure you use the right/correct safety for your dives/discipline. Then we have the super important depth-adaptation that have to be done gently and thoroughly (!!!).
Now to try provide some constructive input:
If you would like to make a new WR in VWT, let say you're a woman and have to make 127m to be successful. Then how many training dives below 120m do you have to do before you can say that you controlling that depth ??? How should the progress look like ??? 30 dives to 90m, 20 dives to 100m, 15 dives to 110m, 10 dives to 120m and 10 dives to 125-130m ??? If the athlete always surface with a big smile and without any signs of problem, this even on all the 125+ training dives... then we have an athlete who might be ready for the official dive to 127m. BUT who many athletes do this kind of training/preparation before the official attempt ??? And how big is the chance to have a 35m+ BO on the official attempt if the preparation and rest is done in the right way and all 20 dives to 120m and below (in VWT) have ended perfect with a big smile ??? (and how many athletes take the rest they need before the next dive?)
Then we have the question about HOW big steps can you do when you decide you want to go deeper than you've ever been before? 5m?? 10m??? or only 2m???? And then: how many dives do you have to dive to a certain depth before you decide to go deeper ??? These are all questions that pretty much is up to the athlete and his/her team today BUT should it be regulated and tracked down in a official log-book ??? (maybe an official AIDA pre-wr-attempt-log-book?)
If you ask me, I would love to see this official log-book... and with this we would have a BIG decreased in accidents in our all depth disciplines, at least when it comes to bo's at depth. It's all about develop the right standards and then follow them to 100%. AIDA have to come up with rules that makes it close to impossible to insert "fake-dives" into this log-book. This log should be online and be followed on the net at least 6 weeks before the official attempt. AND YES... this comes to depth competitions as well. To announce a wr depth (or all announces deeper than a certain depth) you have to show your log-book, and confirm that you are ready for your announcement.
What I try to say is that correct training and preparation is the big fundament when it comes to less accidents and that AIDA maybe should take the step to ask for a perfect log-book before saying yes for an official depth wr attempt under the flag of AIDA. This include all 5 depth disciplines.
efattah: I was not at the WC in Sardinina 1998, (I was at the IAFD -Red Sea dive off in El Gouna) BUT I have seen the video of his surfacing (and his rescue) and I could not see any chest compressions only mouth to mouth and then he stand up, looks to be ashamed, and walk away.
chrismar: Herbert sled was good and expensive BUT the cone was far from perfect. The cone was not sealed in the right way and after some trainings it (the material on the inside) was soaked and not doing the ideal-work as it did in the start. I am sure that Herbert and Tryggons already have a perfect solution to this when it's time for the next dive.
simos: When you say: "in the best interest of freediving as a sport, but for their personal reasons". You have to understand/remember that NoLimits is and will always be the most spectacular and most media magnet discipline we have. And then also the deepest and the one with THE long history filled with white, but also some black day. And with this in your mind you understand that freedivers that don't do this discipline would be "better off" in media and in dealing with sponsors (etc) if this sled-discipline('s) was removed from the official record-books. Then when we talking about the document: Aida guidelines for sled diving. We all know that this document is a "dynamic guideline" and will/should be updated and go along with the latest research in the field. Nothing else is expected. Of course you could ask for more specific details in all levels when it comes to "a proper safety system" and other mentioned (jargon) things, and we could ask AIDA to make an appendix with this details.
will: Your post #150 does not help here at all. We all know that the risks in freediving gets higher every meter you go deeper, and with this the risks in NL is a lot higher. BUT your "number madness" is just a not that great try to underline your opinion on the matter (this if you ask me). You also avoid the inclusion of the fatal-accidents in the other disciplines. Without counting them all, we have the DYNAMIC fatal-accident in Brazil (CMAS) and the STATIC fatal-accident in Sweden. Then you talking about AIDA-registered dives (?) and you start to include IAFD dives and training dives outside of the supervision of AIDA. Don't you understand that AIDA can-not control private trainings and have no power at all when it comes to less-safety thinking persons doing there own thing out there. If you start to include AIDA in you "number madness", please use the list of dives done inside of AIDA, here I am talking about dives and competitions where AIDA have official judges at the dive site, judging and checking everything officially for AIDA. And fyi Cyril Isoardi did not have any guideline to follow, not even a simple lanyard. Audrey Mester did not have any lanyard, no CB system, lack of scuba safety and no air in the tank when she was opening the valve at 171m (manslaughter). Loic LeFerme was presumably lack of sufficient distance between the diveline and the bottom and that he was caught by something, net or a rope/line that was adhesion/fixed down there. Maybe an old fishing net that got stuck in the rest of the anti-submarin things that still can be found on the bottom of the bay of Villefranche-sur-Mer. The depth at the dive site was 190m and inclined, the dive was to 171m. Adel disconnected himself. Non of them followed the points that are reviewed in the guideline that was made after the lost of Loic.
have a nice day all and do not forget to take your time on the depth-adaptation, gently and thoroughly.
/Bill
ps. ghost line exist but I have never seen any or heard that this have been a problem in official AIDA event. Soo yes, I still think that the athlete, when it comes to sled-diving, should not be able to disconnect himself from the dive line. There are many ways to make this work perfect.
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For example Guillaume Néry had an accident with a ghost anchor line at the WC 2010 in Okinawa. Fortunately he encountered it already on his descend. Had it happened on the ascent only, and had he no way to disconnect the lanyard, it could have been fatal. Possibly even the CB would not help, just like in case of Loïc. I totally agree with Will that the safety option for disconnection must be preserved.
Hi trux,
Ghost line exist but if you/we use Will's fantastic factual statistics available and his relative risk management using a measure of the number of mortalities (or times when ghost line is seen) and occurring in an interval divided by the number of dives in the interval as a relevant index of the death rate, the magnitude of accident/mortalities involving a ghost line is smaller than minimal.
Again, I still think that in sled-diving, the athlete should not be able to disconnect himself from the dive line. Or maybe we find out a new system HOW to disconnect the athlete from the dive-line in VWT and NL.
...B
Ghost line exist but if you/we use Will's fantastic factual statistics available and his relative risk management using a measure of the number of mortalities (or times when ghost line is seen) and occurring in an interval divided by the number of dives in the interval as a relevant index of the death rate, the magnitude of accident/mortalities involving a ghost line is smaller than minimal.
Again, I still think that in sled-diving, the athlete should not be able to disconnect himself from the dive line. Or maybe we find out a new system HOW to disconnect the athlete from the dive-line in VWT and NL.
...BAs Trux, I can confirm the ghost line at the Okinawa WC. I was about 10 m from the comp line when they pulled the line up to check the line after Guillame had surfaced. Guillame encountered the line at about 90 m.
The line was a approx 20 mm white nylon rope that had twisted itself approx. 90 degrees around the comp. line.
After reviewing the bottomcamera footage afterwards the same line was visible already earlier on line B, before getting stuck at line A.
This is why there should be online survaillance of the whole diveline. If properly deployed it would add safety.
Release of lan-yard should be IMO a mandatory option, back-uped by e.g. an inflatable vest.
-> back to topic
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Bill, the disconnection is a necessity and may be needed quite often. If you want to play the statistics game, just ask around how often people got entangled with their lanyards. Safety is about minimizing risks. Attaching a diver to a line without any possibility to disconnect, seriously increases the risk, not reduces it. Instead of adding safety redundancy, you are adding another possible point of failure.
Besides others, if we disable disconnecting even near the surface on the ascent, slow decompression ascent would not be easily possible (the brake won't work on the ascent at many sleds). At many sleds the last meters of the ascent are pretty violent, and it is advisable to separate from it close to the surface. However, those are just minor details - the safety concerns for the case of entanglement are principal.
Besides others, if we disable disconnecting even near the surface on the ascent, slow decompression ascent would not be easily possible (the brake won't work on the ascent at many sleds). At many sleds the last meters of the ascent are pretty violent, and it is advisable to separate from it close to the surface. However, those are just minor details - the safety concerns for the case of entanglement are principal.
Hi Trux,
Yes, this far the disconnection is a necessity. And it should be in the competition disciplines. (CWT-CNF-FIM)
But with the sled guideline I have never seen or heard about any entangled with their lanyards during sled-diving. And as I said before there is ways to do this in a perfect way. We just have fine-tune the ideas and test them in reality.
To have an empty lanyard coming up in an emergency situation is not ideal.
/B
Yes, this far the disconnection is a necessity. And it should be in the competition disciplines. (CWT-CNF-FIM)
But with the sled guideline I have never seen or heard about any entangled with their lanyards during sled-diving. And as I said before there is ways to do this in a perfect way. We just have fine-tune the ideas and test them in reality.
To have an empty lanyard coming up in an emergency situation is not ideal.
/B
In addition of a disposable lanyard, needed for the last meters of slow ascend, decompression stop, and in case of ghost lines, animals and or run ins with reefs (these are not very likely, but I recognise with need for deep water near a hospital, one has steep walls) Can't a diver have a sort of affordable UW beacon so SAR can always find the body?
I'm also in very much in favour of the independent inflatable vest.
I'm in favour of AIDA judges testing and approving sleds (the total NL setup), for records, training and commercial use, perhaps different levels of safety for different depth ratings - related to user's pb's in CWT?
At a reasonable price, with a clear guidelines and unambiguous requirements (like the number of back-ups, lift capacity, inflation systems, balloons, automation, speed, camera positions, lights etc) offered up beforehand, in combination with electronic communication before the final on site check and approval.
As for the logbook, Video clips of the diver's face and a readable dive computer in frame in combination with surface cam footage and both sled and diver computer-log file would be rather difficult to fake I think.
About Anna's dive, what were the dive times - time to bottom, bottom, time to ascend - anything out of the ordinary ones?
I'm also in very much in favour of the independent inflatable vest.
I'm in favour of AIDA judges testing and approving sleds (the total NL setup), for records, training and commercial use, perhaps different levels of safety for different depth ratings - related to user's pb's in CWT?
At a reasonable price, with a clear guidelines and unambiguous requirements (like the number of back-ups, lift capacity, inflation systems, balloons, automation, speed, camera positions, lights etc) offered up beforehand, in combination with electronic communication before the final on site check and approval.
As for the logbook, Video clips of the diver's face and a readable dive computer in frame in combination with surface cam footage and both sled and diver computer-log file would be rather difficult to fake I think.
About Anna's dive, what were the dive times - time to bottom, bottom, time to ascend - anything out of the ordinary ones?
This would definitely help a lot. Won't solve all the problems but it's an effective way of checking whether the most important guidelines have been followed before a WR attempt is allowed. Perhaps some video footage of recent dives close to the WR should be needed too. I'm sure someone can put something effective together with a bit of thought...
I do not think that this would be a smart thing for AIDA to do, or for any judge. I can already imagine plenty of legal issues arising from this. Who is liable in the end if something goes wrong? There would have to be a very detailed arrangement about what the judge needs to check and what not.
1. If AIDA stops accepting NLT/VWT, will this stop people from doing these events?
No, BUT there will be a great reduction in the number of dives!
Do you think that Anna von Boetticher would have done a 130m variable weight attempt if AIDA did not recognize this event? I would say 99% NO.
Think of all the 'unknown' freedivers who try to set a national record with their national AIDA of 100m NLT. Would these divers do this if their national AIDA did not recognize this event? Most probably NO.
People who use NLT/VWT to train flexibility and equalizing -- this would continue either way. But in my opinion this represents a VERY SMALL portion of NLT/VWT dives.
If AIDA stops recognizing NLT/VWT, my guess is that there would be a 75% reduction in the number of dives. I don't think the accident ratio would change much, but for the same accident ratio, with 75% fewer dives there would be 75% fewer accidents.
On the other hand, if sled diving is continued to be accepted, then I would set certain rules such as:
No-Limits: Depth limit in training or competition is restricted to CWT/FIM maximum x2.
Variable-Weight: Depth limit in training or competition is restricted to CWT/FIM maximum x1.4
Now, for Anna's attempt, it seems the judges did not do their job. The rules state the athlete must have done within 5m of the target depth, whereas even Linda admits that the max anyone believes Anna did was 120m (Target-10m), and even that was not confirmed.
No, BUT there will be a great reduction in the number of dives!
Do you think that Anna von Boetticher would have done a 130m variable weight attempt if AIDA did not recognize this event? I would say 99% NO.
Think of all the 'unknown' freedivers who try to set a national record with their national AIDA of 100m NLT. Would these divers do this if their national AIDA did not recognize this event? Most probably NO.
People who use NLT/VWT to train flexibility and equalizing -- this would continue either way. But in my opinion this represents a VERY SMALL portion of NLT/VWT dives.
If AIDA stops recognizing NLT/VWT, my guess is that there would be a 75% reduction in the number of dives. I don't think the accident ratio would change much, but for the same accident ratio, with 75% fewer dives there would be 75% fewer accidents.
On the other hand, if sled diving is continued to be accepted, then I would set certain rules such as:
No-Limits: Depth limit in training or competition is restricted to CWT/FIM maximum x2.
Variable-Weight: Depth limit in training or competition is restricted to CWT/FIM maximum x1.4
Now, for Anna's attempt, it seems the judges did not do their job. The rules state the athlete must have done within 5m of the target depth, whereas even Linda admits that the max anyone believes Anna did was 120m (Target-10m), and even that was not confirmed.